821: The importance of COMMUNICATION in leadership w/ Chris Payne

WEBVTT

00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.004
Hey, what is up?

00:00:01.004 --> 00:00:04.365
Welcome to this episode of the Wontropner to entrepreneur podcast.

00:00:04.365 --> 00:00:13.587
As always, I'm your host, brian LoFromento, and I'm joined by an amazing entrepreneur today that has quite the accomplished career, but in true entrepreneurial fashion.

00:00:13.587 --> 00:00:23.265
I love how he identified an opportunity area and now he serves people to reach the next level in their own journeys, in life, in business, in their professional careers.

00:00:23.265 --> 00:00:25.045
Let me tell you about today's guest.

00:00:25.045 --> 00:00:26.905
His name is Chris Payne.

00:00:27.265 --> 00:00:40.405
After working 20 years as a marine scientist, chris Payne founded Deergo Science Connection with the goal of helping science professionals build their leadership skills and enhance relationships throughout the scientific community.

00:00:40.405 --> 00:00:54.011
Chris has worked from coast to coast California to Florida to New England ironically or coincidentally, all three of the places where I've lived in the areas of marine science, research, conservation, education, fisheries and agriculture.

00:00:54.011 --> 00:01:04.849
As a scientist, chris knows the technical and research sides of the work are, and should be, the priority, but that, consequently, the people operations often go overlooked.

00:01:04.849 --> 00:01:24.484
So after two decades honing his marine science expertise, he shifted his passion and earned a master of science in leadership from Goodall Northeastern University in Boston, massachusetts, to focus on bringing professional development opportunities to science organizations, with a Bachelor of Science in Marine Biology from the University of New England.

00:01:24.484 --> 00:01:30.688
Chris brings a unique combination of skills, experience and understanding to each client he works with.

00:01:30.688 --> 00:01:35.149
He currently lives back in New England, in South Portland, maine, with his family.

00:01:35.299 --> 00:01:39.986
I'm so excited to learn from him and hear all of his perspectives today, so I'm not gonna say anything else.

00:01:39.986 --> 00:01:42.888
Let's dive straight into my interview with Chris Payne.

00:01:42.888 --> 00:01:49.484
All right, chris, I am so excited that you're here with us today.

00:01:49.484 --> 00:01:50.683
Welcome to the show.

00:01:50.683 --> 00:01:52.530
Thank you so much.

00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:53.625
It's exciting to be here.

00:01:53.980 --> 00:01:54.522
Heck, yeah.

00:01:54.522 --> 00:02:02.349
So obviously I tease listeners just a little bit about all the cool things that you and I have in common geographically, but also your professional background.

00:02:02.349 --> 00:02:04.025
Take us beyond that bio.

00:02:04.025 --> 00:02:05.123
Who the heck is Chris?

00:02:05.123 --> 00:02:07.888
How did you start doing all these amazing things that you do today?

00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:15.344
Yeah, that was quite the introduction and I absolutely love meeting people from New England, especially Massachusetts.

00:02:15.344 --> 00:02:30.207
So my career as a marine biologist something I've always wanted to do since I was six, seven years old that's just the path I knew I was gonna take, growing up in New England and going up to Maine for vacations and really just falling in love with the ocean.

00:02:30.207 --> 00:02:43.182
And I was lucky enough to get my undergrad up here in Maine and then I just kind of explored and tried to find where I was comfortable and I started out in marine science education down in Florida.

00:02:43.182 --> 00:02:50.605
I've done a lot of diving, eventually made my way back up to New England and then said, nope, I'm not done, I gotta go out to California.

00:02:50.719 --> 00:03:03.865
I spent about 12 years out in California working for aquariums, doing some contracting work, some nonprofit work and really just seeing as many different areas of marine science as I could.

00:03:04.781 --> 00:03:09.627
And until I realized that you know what I love, all the science that I've done.

00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:11.967
I've done some really, really amazing stuff.

00:03:11.967 --> 00:03:19.584
I've worked with some cool people, some absolutely mind-blowing animals, life experiences that you can't even believe.

00:03:19.584 --> 00:03:50.805
But I really wanted to start shifting gears and helping my coworkers and some of the younger science you know excited science staff that I've been working with, and future scientists in a different perspective, and I really love being in a leadership role, but I also take pride in helping other people excel in areas that maybe they wouldn't want to or challenges they may not take on.

00:03:50.805 --> 00:04:20.026
And so I decided, as a father-to-be of a brand new baby and in my mid-30s, that you know what it was time to go back to school and really see what this leadership stuff was all about, and I just absolutely fell in love with it, and so that's kind of got me to where I am now, and I eventually got the motivation and the confidence to build this company that I'm so proud of, and I'm really looking forward to seeing it grow over the next, you know, 10, 20 years.

00:04:20.968 --> 00:04:21.230
Heck.

00:04:21.230 --> 00:04:23.987
Yeah, I love that overview for so many reasons, Chris.

00:04:23.987 --> 00:04:27.529
First and foremost is that I love labels.

00:04:27.529 --> 00:04:33.930
I love seeing the way that other people view themselves and for you, you are such an accomplished scientist in your field.

00:04:33.930 --> 00:04:36.247
It's something that a lot of people dream of as kids.

00:04:36.247 --> 00:04:39.350
But you actually lived that dream in your professional career.

00:04:39.350 --> 00:04:41.487
But somewhere along the way You're right.

00:04:41.487 --> 00:04:48.829
What an interesting inflection point is if you didn't have enough on your plate to be a dad soon, but then you also decided, yeah, let's go back to school.

00:04:48.829 --> 00:04:51.168
Yeah, let's start a business and become an entrepreneur.

00:04:51.168 --> 00:04:54.329
Walk us through that shift, because it's not just a decision.

00:04:54.329 --> 00:04:58.605
You actually took action on it and you service people with your own business these days.

00:04:58.605 --> 00:05:00.286
Talk to us about that transition.

00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:03.927
Yeah, that was a scary transition.

00:05:03.927 --> 00:05:15.666
I started my graduate school in 2017, in October, and our daughter was born just a couple months after that, not even actually about six weeks after that.

00:05:15.666 --> 00:05:26.146
So when you get into grad school, especially when you're later on in your life, you know you're gonna take that challenge on because it's something that you really love.

00:05:26.146 --> 00:05:30.187
It's not something that I was forced to do, like you do when you're an undergrad.

00:05:30.187 --> 00:06:01.048
It's something that you're very passionate about, and I had been put into a lot of leadership roles in the terms of leading and guiding my teammates, or even outside of work, leading large groups of volunteers, never at a level that was a management or above, but just having the responsibility of making sure that my teammates understand how prepared they are, going into specific projects or whether we're diving, making sure we're all safe and we understand the whole entire scope of the project.

00:06:01.048 --> 00:06:12.744
And I wanted to expand on that, and so I started looking inward, because I'll tell you that, moving from Massachusetts to California, there is definitely a lot to learn about communication there.

00:06:12.744 --> 00:06:15.829
So, out here, we're very direct, we're straightforward.

00:06:15.829 --> 00:06:18.228
It's hey, how efficient can we be?

00:06:18.228 --> 00:06:33.403
I learned very quickly that that's not how everybody talks, and so I had a lot of growing and learning on my own that I needed to do in terms of my own professional development and leadership development, even though I've been in these leadership roles since college.

00:06:33.403 --> 00:06:42.228
And so I started taking my own course work and then I decided, you know what I wanna do this for real and went back to grad school.

00:06:42.228 --> 00:06:47.586
And then, after I graduated, I was like I was all in and I wanted to kind of start.

00:06:47.586 --> 00:07:02.706
I had no idea what I was doing and so I started you know kind of put my name out there on different websites and you know, as you know, ever whether it's a consultant or doing presentations or stuff like that and just really didn't get anywhere.

00:07:02.706 --> 00:07:07.067
And so that was probably back in 2019.

00:07:07.209 --> 00:07:23.168
And then COVID hit and then obviously things changed and I felt a little bit more momentum to try to gather the resources that I needed and so, yeah, just about last year or so, I decided to go all in.

00:07:23.168 --> 00:07:31.869
My wife is such an amazing support system she said let's just do it, and I started Dear Go Science Connection as an LLC.

00:07:31.869 --> 00:07:38.422
I got a mentor from SCORE, which is an incredible program that offers mentorships for free.

00:07:38.422 --> 00:07:41.345
They have them here in Maine, but they have them all over the country.

00:07:41.345 --> 00:07:46.406
And so I worked with a business mentor to help me go through the steps of starting a business.

00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:55.545
She was very you know same thing like very intrigued, I guess I should say, about a marine biologist who's trying to do this leadership and science business.

00:07:56.401 --> 00:08:00.223
And you know, it is quite the interesting you know niche to fall into.

00:08:00.223 --> 00:08:11.507
And I was just talking to another scientist that I'm setting up a training program for and I told her that, you know, I'm not the type of person that's ever gonna just kind of fall into line as the rest of the people.

00:08:11.507 --> 00:08:27.244
I'm probably one of only a few marine biologists that have said you know what, to further my career, I want to go back and get a masters in leadership instead of continuing to go and get a masters in whatever type of you know study I was working on and I absolutely love it.

00:08:27.244 --> 00:08:41.788
Honestly, I truly like being able to help scientists succeed from an interpersonal standpoint, because it is so incredibly valuable to the overall programs that they're part of and, long-term, it just helps science move faster.

00:08:41.788 --> 00:08:52.688
And so now I'm in this world where I'm just, you know, reaching out to different scientists and different fields and just trying to get my name out there just to see who and what and where this is gonna take me.

00:08:53.279 --> 00:09:01.626
Yeah, I love that overview, Chris, especially because your passion does show through so much in the way you talk about these things, which is true of so many of us entrepreneurs.

00:09:01.626 --> 00:09:06.760
We freaking love what we do and I can totally relate to so many aspects of your story, gosh.

00:09:06.760 --> 00:09:13.706
When I moved to LA in my mid to late twenties, I got called out so frequently for being a New Englander because I will never stop saying wicked.

00:09:13.706 --> 00:09:17.431
So, yeah, I relate to so many parts of your story.

00:09:17.431 --> 00:09:24.850
But what I really like is that so much of what you're talking about is that a lot of people like to focus on the practice as practitioners.

00:09:24.850 --> 00:09:28.046
You know, if you are a physical therapist, you focus on physical therapy.

00:09:28.379 --> 00:09:45.764
If you're a scientist, you focus on the science, and it's sexy to talk about those things, but what I'm really hearing and seeing from you and this is all about what your business is is that there's other vehicles that can help you be better as a practitioner, and in your case, it's right on your website, dirigosciencecom, which we'll talk about at the end of today's episode.

00:09:45.764 --> 00:09:46.662
But I love it.

00:09:46.662 --> 00:09:49.210
Stronger leaders, stronger science.

00:09:49.210 --> 00:09:56.350
Leadership is that vehicle through which we can improve our scientists and our science that we actually practice.

00:09:56.350 --> 00:10:04.089
So talk to us about that marriage between the two of them and the intersection, because you're right, it's unique, but I also think it's incredibly powerful and important.

00:10:05.581 --> 00:10:06.102
Absolutely.

00:10:06.102 --> 00:10:17.764
Science, as you said, is such a technical skill that as you move up the ranks, you've done that because you're probably the best in your field, whatever that field might be.

00:10:17.764 --> 00:10:37.226
And I saw a lot of that in the various aspects of marine science that I worked in, where a lot of my bosses, as nice as they were and as talented as they were in the field of marine science, weren't necessarily the best when it came to the management and the leadership side of it.

00:10:37.226 --> 00:10:47.546
And there are so many ways to integrate leadership into science without sacrificing the research and the technical skill set.

00:10:47.546 --> 00:10:58.827
And really, when you look at how, from my perspective, leadership is built on communication, well, science is all about communication.

00:10:58.827 --> 00:11:26.407
So when you're walking into a room to try to describe this next research project and the roles and the expectations and the timelines and all of the goals, and you're collaborating with other departments, you're working within the community, you have publications that you need to share with other scientists, there's obviously a lot of stakeholders throughout the entire process and communication is key.

00:11:26.407 --> 00:11:48.066
So when I go into a room to start training scientists on their leadership skillsets and how we can strengthen that, it's all about building that basis of communication and breaking that down, where I really emphasize open communication environments, where it doesn't mean that you can just go in to a group and just start saying whatever you want.

00:11:49.022 --> 00:12:02.066
As a leader, if you have a group of people that you're working and you're overseeing a project on, you wanna make sure that everybody within that group feels comfortable to speak up, that all of those ideas are safe, that all of those ideas are welcome.

00:12:02.066 --> 00:12:13.764
It doesn't mean that all the ideas are gonna be used or utilized and, as a leader, it's up to you to really be able to communicate the reasoning for the direction that you're gonna be taking.

00:12:13.764 --> 00:12:30.032
It's also important when you're in that management or higher role, you need to understand and be comfortable with feedback, and I've worked with so many, so many great scientists who are just uncomfortable with feedback.

00:12:30.032 --> 00:12:33.246
And that means you know receiving feedback but also providing it.

00:12:33.246 --> 00:12:46.000
And I feel like as a leader, as a manager, in a role where you're trying to help inspire people and really help them grow and put them in a position to succeed as their resource, you should be able to provide them with feedback.

00:12:46.000 --> 00:13:01.323
And if you're not comfortable doing that, I feel it's up to you to try to understand how you can grow from an interpersonal perspective in that area to really help strengthen yourself as a leader but also strengthen your team.

00:13:02.368 --> 00:13:24.102
And so when you take different leadership skills and traits and aspects like you know, being being transparent but having a level of accountability, establishing a level of trust, not just with your team but with your co-workers, your collaborators, your stakeholders in the public you know these are all areas that are going to help science in the long run.

00:13:24.143 --> 00:13:48.913
It's going to help your retention rates, it's going to help your motivation, it creates opportunities for autonomy within the group and it provides you to give your followers and your teammates an understanding of really how they fall into this whole entire big process and how valuable their role is, so that they know that what they're doing is really making a difference.

00:13:50.321 --> 00:14:17.683
I started working in studying emotional intelligence because when you go into science, to a scientific process, and you're taking on these big projects that are going to last month and you're working with people that maybe you've never worked with before and you're coming into situations that maybe you're uncomfortable, you need to have a better understanding of how you're going to react in those situations and also being able to, you know, be comfortable, knowing where your role is in that whole entire group.

00:14:17.683 --> 00:14:37.043
So for me, I try to establish a safe environment where we have a diversity of ideas from a number of different people, so that just because I might be in charge of this particular project, we're working on, it doesn't mean that I am going to just say, hey, this is how we're going to do it.

00:14:37.105 --> 00:14:38.006
I don't want to hear anything.

00:14:38.006 --> 00:14:41.644
We're going to, we're just going to go this method and we'll see what happens.

00:14:41.644 --> 00:14:48.927
That's the opposite of how I want my science leaders to approach these situations.

00:14:48.927 --> 00:14:50.892
I want them to sit back, I want them to listen.

00:14:50.892 --> 00:14:54.134
I always say that the loudest person is not necessarily the best leader.

00:14:54.134 --> 00:15:11.312
You know, it's the people that are listening to all the ideas, taking in that information and then pushing it forward in the best and most efficient way that they can, and also providing people a chance to speak up and challenge themselves and just take on these roles that maybe they have never had before.

00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:22.302
Yeah, chris gosh, I love that overview for so many reasons, but I'm going to make it clear Part of what I love about talking to you and learning from you is that obviously your niche is science leaders.

00:15:22.302 --> 00:15:26.320
But where my brain goes, because I'm biased and my niche is entrepreneurship is.

00:15:26.419 --> 00:15:34.211
I'm just like you could substitute all of this for business leaders, for entrepreneurs, because your strong emphasis on communication Gosh.

00:15:34.211 --> 00:15:35.476
That is so true for all of us.

00:15:35.476 --> 00:15:41.119
As business leaders, we need to communicate and lead our teams, our customers, our prospects, our stakeholders.

00:15:41.119 --> 00:15:45.450
If we have investors, that's a very important pool that we need to show up as a leader for.

00:15:45.450 --> 00:15:51.403
And, chris, hearing you talk about all of these things, I think it's important for all of us entrepreneurs to take on board.

00:15:51.482 --> 00:16:07.586
And I'm going to pick on your industry just a little bit for a second, because obviously we all have that, that stereotypical, cliched view of what a scientist is, and we always picture the ones who are, just, you know, incredibly brilliant academics, but maybe not the most extroverted people on the planet.

00:16:07.586 --> 00:16:15.456
And I know firsthand we get a lot of emails from listeners who maybe introverts and they say well, brian, I can't show up on video.

00:16:15.456 --> 00:16:17.184
Obviously I'm very extroverted.

00:16:17.184 --> 00:16:20.539
Everyone uses me as the example and I'm like this isn't the only way.

00:16:20.539 --> 00:16:23.427
There's a million different shapes and sizes of leaders.

00:16:23.427 --> 00:16:26.607
Chris talked about some of those different leadership styles.

00:16:26.607 --> 00:16:34.263
I would imagine that getting people out of their shells, whether they're an introvert, whether they're a total science geek, whatever it may be, what are those different styles?

00:16:34.263 --> 00:16:35.065
What do they look like?

00:16:36.086 --> 00:16:37.028
Yeah, absolutely.

00:16:37.028 --> 00:16:46.379
And you know I I love seeing introverts step up as leaders, and I know so many that are great leaders.

00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:54.870
And one thing I don't I don't like to see, necessarily, is when people think that you know, introverts need all this extra training.

00:16:54.870 --> 00:16:56.274
It's they don't.

00:16:56.274 --> 00:17:00.046
They just need an opportunity to be brought into the conversation.

00:17:00.046 --> 00:17:09.191
I think opening up those safe spaces to speak is really important and I wasn't always extroverted.

00:17:09.191 --> 00:17:13.403
Honestly, I didn't start opening up until I was probably 16, 17.

00:17:13.403 --> 00:17:15.750
And and then I haven't stopped talking since.

00:17:15.829 --> 00:17:34.257
But you know, you have people that are obviously not as comfortable speaking up or not as comfortable as taking taking the lead, but they have phenomenal ideas and if you're not going to reach out to them and help them come into this conversation to contribute, you're not going to know that those are there.

00:17:34.257 --> 00:18:18.519
And then, of course, you have the other side, where you have people that are just loud and they want to just be involved and they're super enthusiastic and sometimes you got to kind of rain them back just a little bit because, yeah, their ideas are awesome, but we need to also see what everybody else's ideas are, just to see if there's anything else out there that might help us move a little bit more efficiently and, and you know, taking in All the ideas is important, but it's also really valuable to understand, if you're the leader, to be able to communicate your decisions and I always say I'm going to listen to everything that you throw at me, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I can utilize those and then you have to, as a leader, be able to make those decisions.

00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:25.542
A lot of people in the leadership community like to focus on one different type.

00:18:25.542 --> 00:18:26.816
Like I'm a servant leader.

00:18:26.816 --> 00:18:28.476
I like transformational leadership.

00:18:28.476 --> 00:18:30.054
I'm very directorial.

00:18:30.054 --> 00:18:53.378
For me it's you got to encompass every aspect of it, because when I look at adaptive leadership, it shows me, in situational leadership, it shows how, as a leader, you can go into a situation, be facing something that you didn't see coming, or maybe you thought it might happen, but you weren't 100% sure.

00:18:53.378 --> 00:18:56.957
The people and the leaders in the science world.

00:18:56.957 --> 00:19:20.756
They're able to evaluate, establish the resources that are there, the people, the funding, and act on it in real time and make those decisions, not necessarily where it's an emotional decision, but you've evaluated what you can do with what you have and then move forward.

00:19:20.756 --> 00:19:31.992
So you have leaders all over in the science world, people that are obviously going to go get them, people that are sitting back and they're going to do what they have been asked to do because they're a team player, like I've always been.

00:19:31.992 --> 00:19:34.654
It's team forward for me a thousand percent all the time.

00:19:34.654 --> 00:19:38.652
In the science world.

00:19:40.134 --> 00:19:46.878
One thing that I learned really, really early on that I still take with me is understanding the different personalities.

00:19:46.878 --> 00:19:50.751
I know we've probably all taken personality assessments To an extent.

00:19:50.751 --> 00:19:51.453
They're valuable.

00:19:51.453 --> 00:19:59.942
It's understanding just that other people that you work with work in different manners.

00:19:59.942 --> 00:20:04.093
They approach things differently, they communicate things differently, they hear things differently.

00:20:04.093 --> 00:20:23.796
Just because you maybe have said something over and over again and you feel like you've communicated it as clear as day, they still may need to be checked in on, whereas other people I've worked with plenty of scientists where they come in, they tell you what to do, they walk away and they don't check on you and that's fine because maybe they have that confidence that you know how to get it done.

00:20:25.130 --> 00:20:35.021
But when it comes to introverted or extroverted or really loud and enthusiastic, or maybe you're just there because you want to get the experience and you're helping out every single person.

00:20:35.710 --> 00:20:43.196
I'll never forget one of my first bosses in the aquarium world who told me I understand that you want to know every single thing.

00:20:43.196 --> 00:20:46.738
I understand that, that you would learn every single thing in this building if I let you.

00:20:46.738 --> 00:20:54.096
But I need you to really focus on what your job is and what your role is and really get good at that, and then you can expand on it.

00:20:54.096 --> 00:20:58.820
So you've got all these different personalities within the science world.

00:20:58.820 --> 00:21:07.679
You get a whole bunch of very strong-willed PhD post graduates working on a project and every single one of them thinks that their idea is the best idea.

00:21:07.679 --> 00:21:12.079
We sit in meetings and you sit in meetings and you sit in meetings and nothing ever moves forward.

00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:23.676
Those are the people that I want to reach out to that say hey, how can we strengthen these areas so that we're not constantly repeating ourselves and that we are able to move these projects forward a lot faster?

00:21:24.632 --> 00:21:25.295
Yeah, chris.

00:21:25.295 --> 00:21:34.361
I really like how, when you talk about these things, what I'm constantly hearing from you is that leadership is not just about us as the leaders, but it really is that collaborative.

00:21:34.361 --> 00:21:48.101
That team environment, listening is so at the core of so much of what you share with us, and I'm going to shout out quick aside that I think that you and I are firm believers in the team environment because growing up in Boston, that's the city of champions.

00:21:48.369 --> 00:21:52.101
We've seen so many successful teams and teams of all different shapes and sizes.

00:21:52.101 --> 00:21:57.221
The Tom Brady Patriots were drastically different from the David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez Redsox.

00:21:57.221 --> 00:22:01.961
Different cultures, different personalities, different leadership styles across all of those.

00:22:01.961 --> 00:22:10.080
But what you're really pointing out and sharing with us here today is embodying all of those different ingredients and elements, which leads me to this next question.

00:22:10.080 --> 00:22:19.540
I'm so excited to see how you take this, but obviously so much of this is those soft skills the listening, the confidence, the navigating tricky conversations.

00:22:19.540 --> 00:22:24.401
These are all soft skills that I'm sure critics would say Chris, I wasn't born with your personality.

00:22:24.401 --> 00:22:27.939
I don't have that in me, but obviously all of these things are muscles, their skills.

00:22:27.939 --> 00:22:31.179
How the heck do we go about learning these types of skills?

00:22:31.179 --> 00:22:32.454
You're a leadership expert.

00:22:32.454 --> 00:22:34.015
How do you guide people there?

00:22:34.971 --> 00:22:39.941
Yeah, it's great, because I wasn't born with these skills necessarily either.

00:22:39.941 --> 00:22:43.218
You always hear oh, you're a born leader.

00:22:43.218 --> 00:22:44.251
It's like no man.

00:22:44.633 --> 00:22:49.563
I didn't start talking really until I was way older than I should have been.

00:22:49.563 --> 00:22:54.217
I was very quiet, I was super shy and never liked to speak.

00:22:54.217 --> 00:22:57.135
I always thought anything that I said was going to be wrong.

00:22:57.135 --> 00:23:12.461
I was not the person that was going to be openly vocal about my opinions until I realized that I can contribute from the team perspective.

00:23:12.461 --> 00:23:15.357
I was always the smallest kid growing up in Boston.

00:23:15.357 --> 00:23:20.338
It was always hey, coach, I'll help you with whatever I can.

00:23:20.338 --> 00:23:32.252
Once I started learning these other different areas and being exposed to other people who had the confidence to take on a project or being put into situations where, hey, you got to step it up.

00:23:32.252 --> 00:23:33.815
This is your moment.

00:23:33.815 --> 00:23:40.422
I need you to really understand this particular situation and lead it forward.

00:23:41.950 --> 00:23:46.500
For me it was really just getting the opportunity to step into those roles.

00:23:46.500 --> 00:24:08.757
I remember when I, for example, when I was working as an intern on a boat in Portsmouth and my job was to do public speaking At that time I hadn't really done too much public speaking After freshman year in college definitely started to come out of my shell, but I didn't do any public speaking professionally at that point.

00:24:08.757 --> 00:24:32.672
My boss, who I still think is one of the best leaders that I've ever had she's been she really emphasized a lot of life lessons that I take with me today is just putting yourself out there and seeing what your strengths are and seeing where you're comfortable and then, when you find areas that you want to build on, taking that time and putting in the effort to do that.

00:24:32.672 --> 00:24:37.816
So I got put into a situation once where I had to, I was supposed to do this whole entire tour.

00:24:37.816 --> 00:24:39.450
I was not prepared.

00:24:39.450 --> 00:24:51.670
I honestly have never been as little prepared in any moment as I was in that situation and I had to give all these stats and statistics and facts about the Portsmouth area and I just wasn't ready to do it.

00:24:51.670 --> 00:24:59.714
And this guy that I worked with stepped up and he did it for me and I was so embarrassed and I never let that happen again.

00:24:59.825 --> 00:25:11.573
I made sure that I worked my butt off, I prepared for it and I made sure that every moment after that I was ready to step into that role, because I knew that it was something that I liked to do.

00:25:11.573 --> 00:25:20.577
I just didn't know how to do it well yet, and I was given the opportunity from my coworkers and my boss to be put into these situations.

00:25:20.577 --> 00:25:28.457
That did make me feel uncomfortable, but they also helped me become better at that.

00:25:28.457 --> 00:25:31.068
They gave me the resources, they gave me the tools.

00:25:31.068 --> 00:25:45.667
They took the time to listen and teach, and so, as a leadership expert, I'm trying to come in and basically I want to know where your interests are, what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are, and we want to build on those.

00:25:45.667 --> 00:25:51.632
Because I can talk all day and that's great, but you have to want to do it Right.

00:25:52.464 --> 00:25:57.288
There's a lot of people who don't think they're going to be getting put into these positions of leadership.

00:25:57.288 --> 00:26:00.249
As a scientist, I remember thinking like I don't ever want that.

00:26:00.249 --> 00:26:01.270
I just want to do the work.

00:26:01.270 --> 00:26:02.113
I love the work.

00:26:02.113 --> 00:26:04.298
I want to be out on a boat, I want to be underwater.

00:26:04.298 --> 00:26:05.971
I just want to do all the cool stuff.

00:26:05.971 --> 00:26:07.170
I'm never going to be put into this.

00:26:07.170 --> 00:26:10.554
And then you get really good at your job and then you get put into these roles.

00:26:10.554 --> 00:26:11.496
Well, guess what?

00:26:11.496 --> 00:26:29.576
When you get put into those roles, you don't understand that now you're the one that has to communicate and plan and delegate and really show that you're confident and set your team up for success by preparing them with the resources that they need.

00:26:29.576 --> 00:26:54.509
And so for scientists out there that are not comfortable I think I said it earlier where it's about just putting people in a position to challenge themselves, to grow, where this is a role that maybe you never would take on by yourself because you personally might not have the confidence to do it, and I'm going to put you in that role, but I'm going to be there.

00:26:54.509 --> 00:26:55.990
I'm going to be right next to you.

00:26:55.990 --> 00:26:57.590
I'm going to be a resource.

00:26:57.590 --> 00:27:25.496
You know that you can trust me and come to me as a resource if you have any questions, if you feel uncomfortable, if you need to practice something I've helped so many undergraduate students that had never done public speaking before where it's all about just engaging with them in terms of one-on-one, where you're looking at the information they have that they want to present.

00:27:25.557 --> 00:27:42.778
They know it, they love it, they're passionate about it, but they don't know how to communicate it in a form where it's a conversation, and so you just help them and you emphasize how much time it really takes to practice just going through these scripts over and over and over again until they realize they can do this.

00:27:42.778 --> 00:27:48.851
And once they get comfortable with the talking part, then it's just talking, and they're talking about cool stuff, like I am.

00:27:48.851 --> 00:28:05.009
It's just being able to have that confidence and just taking the risk to step into roles that maybe you might not have ever done before, because you know that you can do the work that you're seeing other people do.

00:28:05.009 --> 00:28:07.872
You just haven't wanted to step into those roles.

00:28:07.872 --> 00:28:19.555
And, as leaders, if you are in charge of a team, it is on you to recognize and evaluate the people around you and put people in the right places to succeed.

00:28:20.525 --> 00:28:26.250
There's so many different areas in science where people just get thrown into roles where maybe that's not their strong suit.

00:28:26.525 --> 00:28:40.650
Maybe they're stronger doing this part of the project or this part of the project instead, and as a leader, you need to recognize that and instead of talking down to someone who maybe isn't great at one area, then help them out, ask them what's frustrating them, listen.

00:28:41.565 --> 00:28:42.375
It's all about active listening.

00:28:42.375 --> 00:28:53.277
As you said, you've got to be willing to listen and then make those changes with them to help them succeed and put them in that place where you, because it's just helping the team overall.

00:28:53.277 --> 00:28:58.336
And then once you build up that level of trust, then you all start to work really well together.

00:28:58.336 --> 00:29:23.393
And so if there are scientists that feel that they're not being heard or their voices aren't getting loud enough, or maybe they're not being challenged or they're just timid and they don't want to take on because of the fear of failure which I've had every single day for so long, because it's such an intimidating feeling to have and then realizing that, well, what if I mess up?

00:29:23.393 --> 00:29:25.730
Is it really impacting that much?

00:29:25.730 --> 00:29:44.992
And if you're putting the right position and set up properly, then it shouldn't have that huge of an impact and it's really just something that you want to take on these roles that maybe you just never really would, and then that confidence is going to come with it.

00:29:44.992 --> 00:29:46.569
That was a really long answer.

00:29:47.005 --> 00:29:51.415
No, chris, I love it because I actually think, societally, we need to talk about this more frequently.

00:29:51.415 --> 00:29:58.994
You really slammed home that point for us here today, which is, of course, we're not comfortable being leaders until we've been a leader.

00:29:58.994 --> 00:30:07.810
And I think it's so important to call that out because in our own careers, if I'm an amazing scientist, well, I'm really great at my job, I'm really great at being a scientist.

00:30:07.810 --> 00:30:09.471
I've never led a team before.

00:30:09.471 --> 00:30:10.891
I've never created a culture.

00:30:10.891 --> 00:30:17.436
I've never done any of those things, so, of course, it doesn't feel natural to me yet because I haven't done it yet.

00:30:17.565 --> 00:30:20.079
So it's that, the choice of words that you use.

00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:20.300
Chris.

00:30:20.300 --> 00:30:30.737
I'm going to give you a lot of credit for it, because I think that it's such a powerful call out to how intentional and stepping into the risks are that you say we need to step into new positions.

00:30:30.737 --> 00:30:32.471
We've not done these things before.

00:30:32.471 --> 00:30:36.134
We have to make that choice and take that risk to step into those.

00:30:36.134 --> 00:30:37.169
So I really love that.

00:30:37.169 --> 00:30:40.674
Chris, I will say there's got to be a podcast or a book in your future.

00:30:40.674 --> 00:30:43.032
There has to be, because I hope so, man.

00:30:43.724 --> 00:30:48.972
I could listen to you talk about these things all day long and, on that note, I always love asking guests.

00:30:48.972 --> 00:31:04.332
At the end I have no idea which direction guests are going to take this question in, but we talked about so many important things today, so many big topics, so many soft skills, so much about the actual fundamentals of leadership, whether you're a scientist or an entrepreneur, or you're leading a team of any sort.

00:31:04.332 --> 00:31:12.796
With all of that in mind, chris, knowing that we're being listened to by thousands of entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs in over 150 countries, what's your takeaway for them?

00:31:12.796 --> 00:31:18.833
What's your best piece of advice that you hope they walk away from here saying gosh, chris, pushed me to think about, or do this.

00:31:18.833 --> 00:31:19.928
What's that thing?

00:31:22.507 --> 00:31:23.148
So that's great.

00:31:23.148 --> 00:31:50.498
I have a couple of you know, I guess models that I always really push and the this business as my wife has just recently this kind of pointed out to me is the emphasis of this quote that I absolutely love from John Quincy Adams, which is patience and perseverance have a magical effect, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish.

00:31:50.498 --> 00:31:57.595
And it's something that I have kind of just always have in the back of my mind is that you have to be patient.

00:31:57.595 --> 00:32:06.817
You've got to just do the little things, just do a little bit each day in the right direction and you'll keep moving forward.

00:32:06.817 --> 00:32:09.756
And that's a good Rocky quote there for you.

00:32:09.756 --> 00:32:11.799
That honestly, I live by.

00:32:13.690 --> 00:32:23.598
And just if you have a goal and you really know that it's not even just about being a passion, it's about being a purpose, right, this is my purpose, I know it.

00:32:23.598 --> 00:32:25.535
I know that this is what I meant to do.

00:32:25.535 --> 00:32:29.138
I've known it for a long time and I just haven't had the confidence to put the pieces together.

00:32:29.138 --> 00:32:32.114
All of us have that purpose and that passion.

00:32:32.114 --> 00:32:36.422
Just be very patient, but persevere, absolutely persevere.

00:32:36.422 --> 00:32:37.363
It's not going to be easy.

00:32:37.363 --> 00:32:43.640
You got to just do little things to keep moving forward and eventually you're going to see that success fall in your lap.

00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:56.477
You're going to be on a really cool podcast with a really cool dude from Massachusetts and you're going to see a lot of the positive things kind of just fall in the place and then the success is going to grow from there.

00:32:57.138 --> 00:32:58.903
Yes, amen to all of that.

00:32:58.903 --> 00:33:00.215
Oh my gosh, I so enjoy it.

00:33:00.215 --> 00:33:02.156
I love the bonus Rocky reference.

00:33:02.156 --> 00:33:06.480
It really shows, I think, chris, that you and I grew up about 30 minutes from each other.

00:33:07.371 --> 00:33:10.401
Seriously, we referenced the same things and I absolutely love it.

00:33:10.470 --> 00:33:12.698
I think it's so applicable here, and you're right.

00:33:12.698 --> 00:33:18.797
I mean, when we keep doing the right inputs, these outputs are going to follow, and I think you're a living example of that.

00:33:18.797 --> 00:33:23.201
I think not only within your field of expertise, but also from an entrepreneurial perspective.

00:33:23.201 --> 00:33:24.615
I love the work that you're up to.

00:33:24.615 --> 00:33:33.421
With that in mind, I'm going to be waiting, chris, for you to launch your podcast and publish your book, but until you get there, listeners will be excited to follow along your business.

00:33:33.421 --> 00:33:34.736
So drop those links on us.

00:33:34.736 --> 00:33:38.298
Where can listeners go to learn more about you and all the great work that you're doing?

00:33:39.430 --> 00:33:41.136
Yeah, so we have a website.

00:33:41.136 --> 00:33:43.054
It's a deergo sciencecom.

00:33:43.054 --> 00:33:46.315
My wife helped design it.

00:33:46.315 --> 00:33:51.257
She's she's a professional at this, so I got to give her a shout out there and Piper let.

00:33:51.257 --> 00:33:52.820
Oh, she helped design it as well.

00:33:52.820 --> 00:33:56.038
So go check out wwwdeergosciencecom.

00:33:56.038 --> 00:34:03.784
I'm also on Instagram at deergo science and I'm on LinkedIn a lot.

00:34:03.784 --> 00:34:04.692
Honestly, I try to.

00:34:04.692 --> 00:34:08.661
We've got a LinkedIn page at deergo science as well for deergo science connection.

00:34:08.661 --> 00:34:17.601
I really want to, you know, reach out to you know as many scientists as I can, but, as you said earlier, you know this doesn't limit itself to scientists.

00:34:17.601 --> 00:34:21.619
It's really something that I think a lot of people can can really benefit from.

00:34:21.619 --> 00:34:28.960
It's something I hope is going to grow, and so go check us out at deergo science and deergo science connection.

00:34:29.992 --> 00:34:31.699
Yes, listeners, you know the drill.

00:34:31.699 --> 00:34:35.840
We are making it as easy as possible for you to find all those links that Chris just mentioned.

00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.838
Scroll down wherever it is that you're tuning into today's episode.

00:34:38.838 --> 00:34:41.318
You'll find a link to deergo sciencecom.

00:34:41.318 --> 00:34:46.710
You'll find that link down below, as well as a link to Chris's socials that he referenced, as well as a link to his personal LinkedIn.

00:34:46.710 --> 00:34:54.594
If you want to reach out and thank him and encourage him to publish that book or launch that podcast cause you so many thoughts on leadership, yes for sure.

00:34:54.594 --> 00:34:56.556
So, listeners, don't be shy in reaching out.

00:34:56.556 --> 00:35:00.019
It's always incredible to have great people and great entrepreneurs in your circle.

00:35:00.019 --> 00:35:02.960
You've heard how generous Chris has been here on the show today.

00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:08.465
So, chris, on behalf of myself and all the listeners, thank you so much for joining us here today on the show.

00:35:09.527 --> 00:35:10.068
Thank you so much.

00:35:10.068 --> 00:35:10.469
This is great.

00:35:12.115 --> 00:35:17.615
Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the one trip or two entrepreneur podcast.

00:35:17.615 --> 00:35:21.641
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:35:21.641 --> 00:35:26.869
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at the wantrepreneurshowcom.

00:35:26.869 --> 00:35:30.880
And I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:39.657
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:35:39.809 --> 00:35:41.717
These are not sponsored episodes.

00:35:41.717 --> 00:35:43.295
These are not infomercials.

00:35:43.295 --> 00:35:46.800
Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.

00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:57.760
They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome Wontrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.

00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:06.260
So thank you to not only today's guests but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.

00:36:06.260 --> 00:36:07.581
We also have live chat.

00:36:07.581 --> 00:36:12.217
If you want to interact directly with me, go to the wantrepreneurshowcom.

00:36:12.217 --> 00:36:13.641
Initiate a live chat.

00:36:13.641 --> 00:36:23.045
It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wontrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast.