1082: Go OFF SCRIPT in sales and start doing THESE THINGS to succeed w/ Dr. Deepak Bhootra

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and I have heard from so many of you listeners that you love having your own business, you love marketing, you love servicing your customers and clients, but so many business owners do not enjoy sales.

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That's why we've gone out and we found an incredible sales expert, someone who not only has a lot of experience here, not only someone who's amazing at it, but someone who is so articulate and so great at teaching it to others.

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So let me tell you all about today's guest, an entrepreneur.

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His name is Dr Deepak Butra.

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With over 30 years of experience, dr Deepak is a visionary leader driving change through his company Jabulani Consulting.

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From sales leadership coaching to sales training, deepak is helping businesses unlock their true potential and adapt to a fast-paced world which has it ever been faster than it is today, here in 2025.

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?

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His journey from corporate leadership to authoring books is a testament to innovation, resilience and personal growth.

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His first fiction book it's called Curse Unwound for Young Adults was published last year, and his first contribution to a chapter in an anthology titled Leadership DNA hit the Amazon number one spot in the business operations book category in the first few weeks of release.

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This is someone who, like I said, is not only incredible at what he does, he's also one of us.

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He ties all of that sales expertise with a really deep and grounded understanding of business goals, objectives and, most importantly, business growth.

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So I'm excited to learn from him here today.

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We're all in for a treat, so I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Dr Deepak Butra.

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All right, deepak, I am so very excited that you're here with us today.

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First things first.

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Welcome to the show, thank you brian great to be here heck.

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Yes, I love the fact that obviously, most of our listeners can't see you and I right now, but I can see the copies of your book behind you.

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It's just a testament to how much work you put into all of the great things that you do.

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So let's kick things off.

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Take us beyond the bio.

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Who is deep buck?

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How work you put into all of the great things that you do.

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So let's kick things off.

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Take us beyond the bio.

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Who is Deepak?

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How'd you start doing all these?

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cool things?

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Ooh, that's interesting.

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So, as per my mom, I couldn't speak for the first four years.

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Brian right, I was a very quiet guy and now my mom's biggest problem is I can't shut up.

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So that's a warning to you and the listeners.

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I love what I do.

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I started off, born and raised in India, traveled the world a lot.

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My dad was a forensic pathologist Think of CSI but he just had bad dress sense.

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I just leave it at that.

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He actually showed me the world.

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He actually showed me that I'm a global citizen and I've been a corporate nomad since then.

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I come from a family of entrepreneurs.

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Brian Did a lot of learning from my grandfather.

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My dad became the first doctor in the family.

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He left the family business.

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I kind of kept falling on but went back to business, did my master's, my doctorate degree and so on.

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So I've spent most of my career, about 30 years of my life, in the corporate world.

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Great corporate citizen, great corporate slave.

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But I finally left it and here I am now.

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Yes, I love that overview, especially because, deepak, you are using all the same language that so many of our listeners, so many entrepreneurs, use.

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Clearly, even though you functioned in that arena, you had bigger thoughts and bigger goals and bigger dreams and obviously bigger impact as an entrepreneur, as someone who is out there running your own business, someone who's publishing books, who's speaking at places, who's teaching other people how to have even more of an impact in their own lives and businesses.

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Talk to me about that, because clearly it existed inside of your mind.

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What was that spark that made you say you know what?

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I'm leaving the corporate world and I'm going to go out on my own.

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So I'm going to start with my mom first.

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I'm 11 years old and my mom says to me write down three things that you want to do in your life.

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I wrote it down.

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One of them was to be a medical doctor.

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I didn't get that, but I did get a doctoral degree my dad was a medical doctor tells me that that doesn't count.

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So clearly, two out of three is what I've achieved, as per my dad.

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But as for my mom?

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So someone asked me, 11 years old wow, that much pressure.

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It wasn't pressure, I think, it was just direction.

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So now you stretch that into why leave the corporate world when you have parents who kind of teach you the world, teach you that type of vision, thinking process?

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Then you start asking yourself Brian, what is your purpose?

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What mark do you want to leave behind?

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Do you want to be the corporate guy that made a lot of money, retired at age 55, and that's it?

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Or do you want to do something different?

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And that's, to me, the real clincher, or the deal breaker, pretty crudely, was COVID.

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Covid-19 taught me a valuable lesson.

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A lot of us just suddenly came out from this deep slumber.

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We all been working hard and we suddenly started losing loved ones, I lost family members, and you just heard me swallow hard, and I did, and to me that was a wake-up call what do you want your life to be?

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So I made a couple of decisions.

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One was I said let's spend a few more years thinking about what I want to do.

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Where would I like to make an impact?

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I'd like to slow down, to speed up, and when I talk about that, what I mean is that I like to do things at my pace, at my convenience, and focus on things that excite me.

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And that's how, in March last year is when I actually made a decision after a conversation with my son Got to do something different, dude, and he says what do you want to do?

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And I says I don't know.

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So the first of April last year, I just formed an LLC.

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No clue what I wanted to do, but I knew one thing I wanted to do something that excites me.

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I wanted to find purpose and I want to leave a mark, a legacy, and I don't want to be called a corporate stooge or a corporate person Nope, nope, nope, no titles Someone that someone remembers fondly about having taught them or done something with them that they remember for the rest of their lives.

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Yeah, gosh, hearing that overview, that is a huge goal that you set out on a year ago.

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As you said, I want to leave a legacy.

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That's that big thinking.

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My word for the year for 2025 is bigger, because I think that our work is far bigger than just what we do on a daily basis, and so hearing the fact that you just took very swift action, it sounds like in that regard, is commendable.

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But what I find fascinating about your story is that you love something that most people don't enjoy when they start their own businesses, and that is, of course, sales.

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So let's start there.

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Talk to me about that love for sales.

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Where did it come from?

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And I really want you to address that common connotation that a lot of people have a negative connotation with regards to sales.

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You embrace it, you view it as an opportunity to positively impact others.

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So where's that love for it all come from?

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coming from an entrepreneurial family, I watched my grandfather sell and sell, and sell.

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And here's the funny part.

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I actually should write a book on that old man.

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He was saying things that we talk about today.

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We talk about stickiness customer stickiness right, we talk about this.

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We talk about segmentation.

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The man about stickiness customer stickiness right, we talk about this.

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We talk about segmentation.

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The man was brilliant at it.

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He did it low key, did it at a low standard.

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So for me, I've always watched him sell and I actually realized that this is astounding.

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And someone once told me that you know, sales is not the oldest profession on the planet, but it actually is technically, because the oldest profession profession.

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If you can't sell it, then you can't do it right.

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So sales has always been there.

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We just never respected it, because our perception of sales is the pushy sales guy at a car dealership trying to sell you a car, someone who would lie to you, someone who's going to pinch the jacket at the back to make it look good in the front, so you buy the jacket, and that's not sales.

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That's not sales.

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Sales is actually, I would say, a very noble profession, profession and to me, when I thought about sales, I got burnt out in sales in the first five years itself when I started.

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Brian, I'll be honest with you.

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Right, sales is not for a simple person.

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Sales is for someone who actually understands that he's going to inherit or he's going to do something which can be very mind-bogglingly difficult.

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But when you get things right for a customer, when you solve for his pain, it makes you sleep great at night.

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I did sales for the first five, six years of my life.

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Aggressive sales got promoted.

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I finally kind of felt burnt out.

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I then got a tremendous opportunity to start looking and working with sales people and ask them how do I build tools, processes and technology like crm and so on out for you that helps you get better at what you do and that made me do my PhD.

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I did my doctoral degree focused on job satisfaction, organizational commitment for salespeople, and a lot of people still don't believe that salespeople are worthy of recognition and my response is very simple Oldest profession.

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It's a noble profession.

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It's a profession that puts bread on the table of millions, billions.

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It's also a profession that actually teaches you humility, if done the right way, when you get adversity and you rebound from it.

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Brian, if I sell eight, 10 times in a year.

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I'm telling you, I've taken no, 100 times to get to those 10.

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And that teaches you something.

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It teaches you about resilience, and that's one of the reasons why I'm in the game that I'm in.

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I'm highly focused on mental health.

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I'm highly focused on taking care of yourself, because you're going to get burnt out.

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Sales is unforgiving.

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It's a grind, but you can get through the grind and if you last an extra five to 10 years, you're adding maybe I kid you, not $250K a million dollars to your bottom line just by that longevity, and I think that's a great investment to make, to think about it, and that's why I'm in coaching.

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Yeah, and so many powerful lessons inside of there.

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We are for sure going to talk about rejection in today's conversation, but before we get there, I want to call out you just made me realize for the first time ever, actually that term that we use so popularly in society, which is salespeople, or someone is a salesperson, and I think that we lump it in and we have this vision of what a salesperson looks like.

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You called it out the most quintessential one, which is the pushy car salesman, and that's what we all think of.

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A lot of people would argue that a salesperson is a type of person or a personality trait or all of those things, but when I look at the nature of the work that you do, it really is about sales skills and sales abilities, and listening and service is such at the core of so many things that you're sharing with us today.

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Talk to us about that.

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Is it a type of person, is it a personality that can be successful in sales, or are we really talking about skills that we can develop along the way?

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This is how I look at it.

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Right?

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Anyone can win the lotto.

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You just need to get six numbers right and that's it.

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Anyone can do sales if you are willing to work at it.

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Right?

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Not all of us have the skills or the temperament right.

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A lot of us are.

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I have seen people with disabilities doing remarkably well right, because they have figured out a way to overcome that, and I think that's the way to do it For me.

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Thinking about sales, and if I go back and I look at I have worked one-on-one with more than 1,500 salespeople in my career.

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Brian, I still don't know how to tell you what makes a salesperson top-notch.

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Is it their behavior?

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Is it their attitude?

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Is it a technique?

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It's always a mix of it, right?

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I've also worked in right five countries and I've lived in three countries, and I can tell you I've worked with salespeople in those areas as well.

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What I would argue is a common denominator is not race, it's not color, it's not your religion.

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It's simply that you think fast, you think smart, you learn, you learn from your mistakes and you're resilient and, very importantly, you know how to ask people for help.

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That's what I've picked up.

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You get those characteristics right, the rest falls in place.

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I mean to be honest with you.

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I am overweight, I have a speech defect and I assure you I have met many people like me, so you would be stunned.

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You have the stereotype of a salesperson but, honestly speaking, there is no stereotype.

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I think.

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Every man for himself, every woman for himself, and they can do a great job.

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Back to you, sir.

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Really well said.

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It's such an important takeaway for all of us because I really want to go here with you today on the air.

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Deepak, is you talk about living in different countries?

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You talk about working in different countries?

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Obviously, I join you.

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It's one of the things that you and I have in common is our family has that immigrant story, which I would also argue gives us a little bit of a leg up.

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As the son of an immigrant mom, I've experienced the fact that we view the world as possibilities.

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We find solutions.

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We have to be resourceful.

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It's why I love that quote of the greatest resource is resourcefulness.

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So hearing you talk about these things, talk about some of those universal skills that apply when it comes to sales, obviously on a surface level, we're already aware of listening is so key.

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You've introduced this to a few others.

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I love the fact that you say you have to think smart, you have to think fast.

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Talk to us about some of those universal skills that, regardless of market, regardless of industry, regardless of geography, these are things that set us up for success in sales.

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Brian, that's a million dollar question and I'm going to give you a completely unorthodox point of view.

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The successful guys across cultures are those that not just listen well and we've already spoken about listening but these are guys that actually come back to their organizations, their companies, and command respect of those individuals because they treat them very well.

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When you can garner the resources around you to take your company's message in a watertight, very focused way, leveraging all that expertise inside People who are willing to go that extra step for you, because they know you sell well and because you treat people with respect and that what you do is going to make a difference in your customer's life.

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Buyers appreciate it, but I can tell you your internal customers appreciate it.

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So a successful sales rep irrespective of culture, I've noticed does one thing very well they build internal alliances, allies, tremendously well.

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These are people that when they come back and say my client wants us to jump five feet, everyone says no, we're going to jump six feet for you.

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How can we help you, brian, win this deal?

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And that is a cross-cultural thing that I picked up.

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Another thing that I picked up cross-culturally is to be honest with you is the ability to be resilient.

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You get no's but you try to figure out.

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How do you keep engaging with customers?

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Treating customers with respect is also tangible.

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That I noticed across the way.

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The very same people, when you meet them in real life, may have an edge to them, but when they are with a customer, they actually use that edge in favor of the customer.

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And when they do that, that's when a customer looks at them and says one magic word.

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Actually, it's two magic words trusted advisor and those sales reps across cultures who actually figure that out and many do.

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I have come across Japanese salespeople.

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I've come across Korean salespeople, india, of course, being my background.

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I've lived in Libya, there for three years, and I tell you, when your customer considers you as a trusted advisor, as someone who has earned their trust, not been given that trust.

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Earning trust is another variable that works across cultures.

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Trust is universal, in the same way that love is universal.

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Yeah, I love hearing the way that you articulate these things.

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It's no surprise to me that you've worked with so many incredible salespeople and helped them up their game.

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But what I really hear beyond the trusted advisor which I love how succinctly you put just those two words what I'm hearing is that you have a broader scope of what you believe and what you see encompasses sales.

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A lot of people, when they think about sales, they just think about the sales conversation.

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It's just this one thing.

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But here you are, Deepak, talking about building internal alliances, about those ongoing relationships.

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Clearly, to you, a sales conversation is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to sales.

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What is that scope?

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What are all of these things that are included in sales for you?

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Wow, that's another hour at least.

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But, brian, let's go back and simplify this.

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Let's go back to my granddad.

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Right, this is sales for him.

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He sees an individual who comes up and says how much is this for?

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And he gives him a price.

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That guy flinches.

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My grandfather realizes something is up.

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He then digs in to understand what do you need this for?

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That, to me, is discovery.

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That's for understanding the pain point.

00:15:01.267 --> 00:15:02.421
Why are you at my shop?

00:15:02.421 --> 00:15:03.182
What do you want?

00:15:03.182 --> 00:15:03.942
Why do you want it?

00:15:03.942 --> 00:15:05.664
The guy tells you his business need.

00:15:05.664 --> 00:15:06.706
He explains why he wants it.

00:15:06.765 --> 00:15:08.227
My grandfather then gives it context.

00:15:08.227 --> 00:15:12.072
And as they give that context, the guy suddenly says you know, I have a problem.

00:15:12.072 --> 00:15:14.053
I like your price, but I can't afford it.

00:15:14.053 --> 00:15:16.155
I need you to do something different for me.

00:15:16.155 --> 00:15:24.251
So my grandfather's approach was to them and understand what do you do?

00:15:24.251 --> 00:15:25.033
Where do you live?

00:15:25.033 --> 00:15:27.788
And I used to wonder why is he doing all that?

00:15:27.788 --> 00:15:29.186
And let me tell you what he was doing.

00:15:29.259 --> 00:15:32.006
He was actually trying to figure out would there be recurring revenue from this guy?

00:15:32.006 --> 00:15:35.450
If I buy him today, will he buy again and again from me?

00:15:35.450 --> 00:15:38.205
And then he would build relationships with that family as well.

00:15:38.205 --> 00:15:45.984
His goal was how do you buy seven generations?

00:15:45.984 --> 00:15:47.249
Just think about the brand and thought process behind that.

00:15:47.249 --> 00:15:49.317
So when you look at selling, selling is not an event that's happening at a point in time.

00:15:49.317 --> 00:15:50.421
It is possibly a series of events.

00:15:50.702 --> 00:15:56.904
My grandfather said also one thing treat the person who buys something from you for $10 the same way that someone buys a million dollars.

00:15:56.904 --> 00:16:02.846
The guy who buys $10 buys $10 because that's all he can afford, but he might buy from you every third day.

00:16:02.846 --> 00:16:05.654
You can still make a lot of money from you, that million guy.

00:16:05.654 --> 00:16:08.140
He's going to buy it from you once and he's going to come back after five years.

00:16:08.140 --> 00:16:10.125
They just understand.

00:16:10.125 --> 00:16:10.826
You don't know.

00:16:11.168 --> 00:16:12.409
Stickiness works both ways.

00:16:12.409 --> 00:16:15.163
Respect everyone, irrespective of deal size.

00:16:15.163 --> 00:16:18.149
Show them the same passion, show them the same love.

00:16:18.149 --> 00:16:19.893
Uh, fix problems.

00:16:19.893 --> 00:16:22.725
And if you can do that very well, you're going to do well in life.

00:16:22.725 --> 00:16:24.330
And that's been always my moniker.

00:16:24.330 --> 00:16:35.186
If I am talking to Brian who's paid me, let's say, $100 an hour, or I'm talking to someone who's paid me $1,000 an hour, you will get the same respect, the same attention, the same level of tell me more.

00:16:35.186 --> 00:16:36.389
How can I help you?

00:16:36.389 --> 00:16:37.392
Irrespective?

00:16:37.392 --> 00:16:39.628
Because at the end of the day, it's the price that you and I agreed on.

00:16:39.628 --> 00:16:46.996
I cannot critique the price post facto but I can keep respecting you for the agreement on the contract that we have that we put in place.

00:16:48.081 --> 00:16:49.326
Yeah, so well said.

00:16:49.326 --> 00:16:52.767
This is not just good business advice, this is truly good life advice.

00:16:52.767 --> 00:16:59.759
And when I hear you talk about finding solutions, it seems like that's such a core part of the function that you view as a salesperson.

00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:04.862
And so I want to go there with you, because in that story of your grandfather, you introduced us to the biggest thing.

00:17:04.862 --> 00:17:08.307
A lot of people want to focus in on just one thing, and that is, of course, price.

00:17:08.307 --> 00:17:10.770
Everyone thinks that sales is all about the price.

00:17:10.770 --> 00:17:17.240
That is one variable of many, and if that's the only thing we're competing on, then we're probably just in a race to the bottom.

00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:20.430
So, deepak, I want you to talk to us about that importance of price.

00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:22.570
Too many people hone in on it and get obsessed with it.

00:17:22.570 --> 00:17:31.057
But, in the spirit of your problem solving, it's just one way that we can arrive at that solution with the person that we're looking for that shared solution with.

00:17:31.057 --> 00:17:39.012
How do you navigate price as part of these conversations, and what other types of solutions should we find in addition to just price?

00:17:40.040 --> 00:17:41.503
So I'm going to be very careful on this one.

00:17:41.503 --> 00:17:45.133
Brian, you know a lot of people say that price is irrelevant if you sell your value.

00:17:45.133 --> 00:17:47.487
Reality is price is always relevant.

00:17:47.487 --> 00:17:49.507
Let's look at us as human beings, right?

00:17:49.507 --> 00:17:58.527
Unless you have won the lottery and I keep talking about the lottery a lot unless you've got some money left because your parents left you filthy rich that's the only time you'll show disrespect.

00:17:58.527 --> 00:18:06.765
But if you have really worked hard for your money, you're always going to ask what is this price for?

00:18:06.765 --> 00:18:08.471
And why am I paying X when I can get it for 0.5X or half X somewhere else?

00:18:08.471 --> 00:18:09.696
Right, because you've done your homework.

00:18:09.696 --> 00:18:16.144
That justification on the price that needs to become something to go from an objection to a value discovery conversation, right?

00:18:16.144 --> 00:18:17.609
What value does it actually add to you?

00:18:17.609 --> 00:18:28.548
And if I, as a salesperson, cannot convince the customer that there is no ROI that justifies a 2X price compared to the competition, then I really need to question why am I pricing it the way I'm pricing it Now?

00:18:28.548 --> 00:18:30.950
Price to be honest, I come from an enterprise sales background.

00:18:31.530 --> 00:18:38.217
Price becomes an objection for a very fundamental reason, which is customer actually cannot afford it because some of the corporate guys have budgets.

00:18:38.217 --> 00:18:43.823
So you start the price discovery process by clearly understanding the budget first.

00:18:43.823 --> 00:18:47.450
Now you could argue if I know that your budget is 100, then aren't you going to sell me an $80 product for 100?

00:18:47.450 --> 00:18:49.594
Man says I don't think so.

00:18:49.594 --> 00:18:51.284
Some sales that might do that.

00:18:51.284 --> 00:18:54.442
They give the entire community a bad rap, but the rest of us wouldn't do that.

00:18:54.442 --> 00:19:01.006
My goal from understanding price is first to understand a budget, a range, and there are many people, brian, who disagree with me on this.

00:19:01.006 --> 00:19:20.722
Just this morning, one of my colleagues actually wrote a little LinkedIn post on why price objections should never be handled by asking about a budget, and my response is but you do need to, because the reality is, if you have given, if you or the wife have decided that X dollars is what you're going to spend on eating out, and if you go and spend more above it, it's going to take away money from somewhere else.

00:19:20.722 --> 00:19:22.724
So there's always a balance that you need to bring.

00:19:22.724 --> 00:19:27.071
Make the life of the buyer easy by understanding how his ecosystem works.

00:19:27.571 --> 00:19:28.113
Start there.

00:19:28.113 --> 00:19:29.295
Understand a budget.

00:19:29.295 --> 00:19:36.365
Now go back and figure out what is the ROI or multiplier you need to apply to your price, and price objections need to be handled as follows right.

00:19:36.365 --> 00:19:39.271
Why do you say my price is the highest?

00:19:39.271 --> 00:19:40.643
Have you compared us with others?

00:19:40.643 --> 00:19:50.545
It's a great way to segue into getting them to talk about your competition, about the other proposal they're saying now the next point could be the Brian, you don't get into an argument about why you're better than your competition.

00:19:50.545 --> 00:19:51.933
That's not the way it should be done.

00:19:51.933 --> 00:19:52.880
The second you do that.

00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:59.517
All you're doing is allowing the conversation to spiral down into what I call granularity, which allows people to start nitpicking.

00:19:59.517 --> 00:20:03.506
And when you do that, you will get observations such as I don't like the blue color of your shirt.

00:20:03.506 --> 00:20:05.308
Deeper gets too light for a video camera.

00:20:05.308 --> 00:20:07.173
You don't want to that type of conversation.

00:20:07.192 --> 00:20:10.545
When it comes to price, keep it open, keep it above.

00:20:10.545 --> 00:20:12.890
Work with budgets, work in estimates.

00:20:12.890 --> 00:20:14.693
Understand what they mean by price.

00:20:14.693 --> 00:20:24.662
Right, because I've realized one thing and if you do not dig in deep, a lot of customers say a lot of objections on price, but they're actually reacting to something else, because price manifests itself in many ways.

00:20:24.662 --> 00:20:28.461
I can't afford ten dollars this month, but I can afford twenty dollars over two months.

00:20:28.461 --> 00:20:29.065
Now, wait a minute.

00:20:29.065 --> 00:20:31.579
Then it's not a price objection anymore, it's a cash flow objection.

00:20:31.579 --> 00:20:34.048
So you need to get into that type of understanding.

00:20:34.048 --> 00:20:36.076
Why do you say the price is high?

00:20:36.076 --> 00:20:37.544
And you'll be very surprised.

00:20:37.544 --> 00:20:38.769
Categorization as well.

00:20:38.769 --> 00:20:40.557
Right, it costs eight dollars to install something.

00:20:40.557 --> 00:20:42.103
It costs eight dollars to maintain something.

00:20:42.103 --> 00:20:44.368
Those two amounts come from different buckets.

00:20:44.368 --> 00:20:51.549
If I suddenly know that, I can then work with the customer to figure out how to accommodate his reality of how he had budgeted in different buckets.

00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:52.901
Oof.

00:20:52.901 --> 00:20:54.464
I love this, Deepak.

00:20:54.464 --> 00:21:12.785
This is the brilliant stuff that you make the big bucks for, and that's why we're so grateful that you're here today, because what I really appreciate about your approach to this and what I'm hearing from you today as a fellow entrepreneur and business owner, is that oftentimes what the person is saying, what we think we're interpreting that they're saying, may not be the reality.

00:21:12.785 --> 00:21:16.767
Be willing, be curious, dig deeper and really get at the truth there.

00:21:16.767 --> 00:21:21.903
I've never heard someone say what you just said, which is maybe it's not a price issue, could be a cash flow issue.

00:21:21.903 --> 00:21:25.671
That is such a great point that we've all experienced at different points in our journey.

00:21:26.152 --> 00:21:34.152
Also, the fact that you're willing to ask these questions, I think, speaks volumes to the fact that you're genuinely curious of putting together something that works for them.

00:21:34.152 --> 00:21:35.928
So I've got to ask you this question.

00:21:35.928 --> 00:21:45.431
It feels a bit silly because obviously you and I are riffing with no script here, no pre-planned questions, but people always ask about a sales script and there's so many different schools of thought there.

00:21:45.431 --> 00:21:47.012
What's your approach on it?

00:21:47.012 --> 00:21:48.355
Should we have a sales script?

00:21:48.355 --> 00:21:49.824
How much should we be scripted?

00:21:49.824 --> 00:21:50.465
What's your take?

00:21:53.897 --> 00:21:57.647
Brian, you asked me earlier right that what makes a great salesperson?

00:21:57.647 --> 00:22:00.604
And, at the end of the day, communication skills do matter.

00:22:00.604 --> 00:22:14.741
Scripts are great, but let's look at it this way my nephew is right now doing a master's in acting right, and he's got this massive script that he's reading just a few days back sitting in my place in Houston and I looked at it and I was like scared.

00:22:14.741 --> 00:22:16.258
But I've also come from drama.

00:22:16.258 --> 00:22:25.913
You learn from a script, you practice out loud and then you wow the world when you're on stage.

00:22:25.913 --> 00:22:29.064
Scripts are required in stage and acting because there is no chance of anything going wrong.

00:22:29.064 --> 00:22:32.023
The other actor is not going to say something that's going to be off script.

00:22:32.023 --> 00:22:33.521
So you know exactly what's going to happen.

00:22:33.521 --> 00:22:35.221
And now comes the moment of truth.

00:22:35.221 --> 00:22:38.336
That's not true in sales at all the what's going to happen.

00:22:38.336 --> 00:22:39.099
And now comes the moment of truth.

00:22:39.099 --> 00:22:39.762
That's not true in sales at all.

00:22:39.762 --> 00:22:45.924
The more you rely on scripts, the more likely you're going to trip yourself up that look of utter stupidity that's going to come on your face when you suddenly get a question that you never felt could happen.

00:22:46.536 --> 00:22:51.968
The way I articulate to people about scripts is as follows step back for a second, think about the.

00:22:51.968 --> 00:23:02.681
When you go to barnes and noble, you go to bookstore, and when you look around books you're going to find something like 30 objections and how to handle them, 21 ways to do a cold call Stay away from books like that.

00:23:02.681 --> 00:23:07.365
What you really should be doing is find a framework, a simple rule of thumb.

00:23:07.365 --> 00:23:12.066
I'll give you an example Any religious book you pick up has got commandments or some broad rules.

00:23:12.066 --> 00:23:20.634
Right, get those rules, understand those rules, sit and then think about in that rules and in that framework, what are the typical objections and where do they fall?

00:23:20.634 --> 00:23:30.240
You'll be surprised to learn that there's only five or six variations max that you could get in life and if you can figure those out, you will be able to handle any script, anything, any objection.

00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:34.897
So my argument and just answer your question very succinctly is I hate scripts.

00:23:34.897 --> 00:23:39.637
I don't like to be dictated to because I know what's going to happen in sales scripts.

00:23:39.637 --> 00:23:40.480
Don't follow the line.

00:23:41.061 --> 00:23:49.477
I know people draw pictures of a sales circle and they say deal starts here, deal ends here, and when you show that to a real salesperson, the first thing he tells me is circle.

00:23:49.477 --> 00:23:51.623
Oh no, I, I'm on a zigzag.

00:23:51.623 --> 00:23:53.066
I go up the mountain.

00:23:53.066 --> 00:23:53.686
Then I come back.

00:23:53.686 --> 00:23:57.467
Then the guy says nope, sorry, we need to go back three kilometers up to Mount Everest base camp.

00:23:57.467 --> 00:23:59.634
We have to do something there because there's a decision maker there.

00:23:59.634 --> 00:24:00.857
Now we go forward.

00:24:00.857 --> 00:24:02.481
Oh oops, we just realized something.

00:24:02.481 --> 00:24:06.020
It's a back and forth, it's an up and down, it's not a full circle.

00:24:06.082 --> 00:24:14.402
So you need to be ready for a feedback loop, if that's the reality of sales and the buyer seller dance is one that people say that you know salesperson should lead the dance.

00:24:14.402 --> 00:24:15.584
Here's a the challenge with that.

00:24:15.584 --> 00:24:17.105
Leading is the wrong word.

00:24:17.105 --> 00:24:17.685
You never lead.

00:24:17.685 --> 00:24:18.928
You partner.

00:24:18.928 --> 00:24:24.410
You lead because you want the other person to know what you're going to do, but when you're partnering, you actually follow them.

00:24:24.912 --> 00:24:26.478
And that following cannot come from a script.

00:24:26.478 --> 00:24:29.045
It comes from a lucidity of knowing how to dance.

00:24:29.045 --> 00:24:31.057
It comes from lucidity of practice.

00:24:31.057 --> 00:24:32.101
And that's what.

00:24:32.101 --> 00:24:44.040
And honestly, if you're genuine, authentic and open and caring, you will suddenly realize that customers will actually forgive you when you don't run across the script, because they're also tired of cliches and scripts.

00:24:44.040 --> 00:24:47.102
They know when you're trying to close, close, close.

00:24:47.102 --> 00:24:47.943
They know that.

00:24:47.943 --> 00:24:51.865
And they know when there is an objection, because they're also taught to raise objections.

00:24:51.865 --> 00:24:54.909
But when you take it down a notch, you'll be surprised.

00:24:54.909 --> 00:24:57.459
Those objections actually change into innocent, simple queries.

00:24:57.459 --> 00:24:59.564
Because, remember, your buyer doesn't trust you.

00:24:59.564 --> 00:25:00.646
Why should he trust you?

00:25:00.646 --> 00:25:03.643
He looks at you and sees another salesperson trying to sell to him.

00:25:03.643 --> 00:25:09.825
So calm it down, get off the script, be human and watch your buyer mold himself to your style.

00:25:09.825 --> 00:25:11.208
It's an open style.

00:25:11.208 --> 00:25:12.740
It's a far more productive style.

00:25:12.740 --> 00:25:14.085
That's what I really believe in, brian.

00:25:14.775 --> 00:25:26.498
Yes, in over 1000 episodes, that is one of my favorite answers and insights and brilliance shared on the air, because I think that that's the really powerful thing Deepak listeners know.

00:25:26.498 --> 00:25:29.586
Part of the magic behind this show is that there's no pre-planned questions.

00:25:29.586 --> 00:25:31.154
I don't have any planned questions.

00:25:31.154 --> 00:25:40.686
You certainly have no idea what I'm going to ask you and that's what makes these conversations so valuable is we just as two human beings with our own experiences and life lessons?

00:25:40.686 --> 00:25:54.903
We get to show up and share those things very transparently, without that agenda, and I think it's so important that that follows us through in life, because when we have conversations with our friends, we don't have a script, we don't know what we're going to talk about, but we just have faith in ourselves to go there.

00:25:54.903 --> 00:25:56.226
Go with the flow, yep.

00:25:56.625 --> 00:25:57.929
Yeah absolutely so.

00:25:57.929 --> 00:25:58.409
I love that.

00:25:58.409 --> 00:26:09.619
With that said, I can't have you on the air and not ask you about the mindset and the rejection that comes with this, because when we go into these things, it doesn't mean it's always going to set us up for success.

00:26:09.619 --> 00:26:14.015
There will inevitably be probably more rejections than successes along the way.

00:26:14.015 --> 00:26:19.465
So, deepak, as someone who has so much experience in sales, how do you make sense of this rejection?

00:26:19.465 --> 00:26:20.988
What are the mindset shifts?

00:26:20.988 --> 00:26:26.186
How do you make sure that those rejections don't weaken you but, in fact, they harden you over time?

00:26:28.135 --> 00:26:30.625
I'm going to say something that you're going to be a bit surprised about.

00:26:30.625 --> 00:26:36.482
I have a friend who lost both parents when he was very young, very little.

00:26:36.482 --> 00:26:40.509
My own grandfather that I keep talking about lost his dad when he was three years old.

00:26:40.509 --> 00:26:51.486
Now, at that point I'm very sure he looked at that incident and he, as a three-year-old, did not understand what was going on and in that sense of naiveness or ignorance, he built his life.

00:26:51.486 --> 00:26:52.576
He did fantastic.

00:26:52.576 --> 00:26:58.546
He only studied till grade three, but he made more money that I could think that anyone could do with.

00:26:58.566 --> 00:27:01.289
That level of intelligence or exposure, with all the hardship.

00:27:01.289 --> 00:27:05.726
That also teaches you something very important, right, brian, about life.

00:27:05.726 --> 00:27:09.365
Resilience is actually something that you let happen in your head.

00:27:09.365 --> 00:27:14.826
You allow your self-worth to be dictated by what the world says or world thinks.

00:27:14.826 --> 00:27:17.596
You take a no personally and I'll be honest with you.

00:27:17.596 --> 00:27:19.762
It took me many years because I took no's personally.

00:27:19.762 --> 00:27:24.526
I still take no's personally, but I recover faster for them because I've come back to some basic principles.

00:27:25.315 --> 00:27:34.461
At the end of the day, you need to disassociate your role that you do as a salesperson from your reality or your identity in the human being that you are.

00:27:34.461 --> 00:27:40.079
When I ask people on a scale of one to 10, what is your score for yourself as a human being?

00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:40.942
They say 10.

00:27:40.942 --> 00:27:46.461
And then I ask them what happens to you when you are rejected, or how do you feel when you're down?

00:27:46.461 --> 00:27:51.219
And they tell me I'm a three, I'm a four and my response is very simple Don't mix things up.

00:27:51.219 --> 00:27:55.666
Your identity is always a 10.

00:27:55.666 --> 00:27:59.978
You allow it to become a three because you brought your role or your current state into it.

00:27:59.978 --> 00:28:01.101
Don't cloud yourself.

00:28:01.101 --> 00:28:03.775
You are what you are and you are the best at what you do.

00:28:03.775 --> 00:28:04.978
You will have a down day.

00:28:04.978 --> 00:28:06.240
You need to come back.

00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.506
If you don't do it, then who will?

00:28:08.506 --> 00:28:23.383
That's the answer I always give to people and in this day and age, in sales, where we also have AI coming into play, my response to people is use all these tools and technologies that God has given us and all actually human beings have given us, but use that to your advantage.

00:28:23.383 --> 00:28:27.807
Use it to build your own understanding, resilience and stuff.

00:28:27.807 --> 00:28:31.201
There's so much material out there that you can actually read, understand.

00:28:31.201 --> 00:28:32.423
Talk to mentors.

00:28:32.884 --> 00:28:44.845
I during COVID, brian and I'll say this very candidly to the people on this I've spent a lot of time on mental health and resilience comes from actually sharing with people who care.

00:28:44.845 --> 00:28:45.247
Talk to your family.

00:28:45.247 --> 00:28:45.890
Tell them you're feeling down.

00:28:45.890 --> 00:28:46.574
Tell them why you're feeling down.

00:28:46.574 --> 00:28:47.076
Look around you.

00:28:47.076 --> 00:28:50.885
I assure you there is someone out there who's in a worse off situation than you are.

00:28:50.885 --> 00:28:52.258
I always love it.

00:28:52.278 --> 00:29:02.126
You know, when people complain about the fact that they have got, you know, one eye that went for an operation they can only see with one eye I just show them a picture of a blind person and ask them who do you think is better placed right now?

00:29:02.126 --> 00:29:06.185
And I'm not saying that I'm asking everyone to get into that negative spiral right.

00:29:06.185 --> 00:29:08.461
As long as someone is worse than me, therefore, I am better.

00:29:08.461 --> 00:29:09.404
That's not what I'm saying.

00:29:09.474 --> 00:29:25.540
What I'm saying is give context to your state of mind and when you give context to you like to realize that if someone who loses his parents at such a young age can do great in life my friend is a chartered accountant, or cpa as you call it in in the us he has a thriving practice back in india.

00:29:25.540 --> 00:29:29.376
My grandfather did very well despite his adversity in life.

00:29:29.376 --> 00:29:33.671
So the reality is that how you react to that adversity is in you.

00:29:33.671 --> 00:29:37.180
It's absolutely in you and brand, to be honest with you.

00:29:37.180 --> 00:29:40.066
That's one of the reasons why I just wrote a book which I'm going to bring out in March.

00:29:40.066 --> 00:29:48.480
It's actually called Boundless Within, because the argument that I'm making is that every problem that you create in your mind is going to be solved by the mind itself.

00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:51.527
What makes us human fails us too.

00:29:51.527 --> 00:29:53.858
That's how I'd like to close this discussion with you, brian.

00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:56.023
Wow, I love that.

00:29:56.023 --> 00:30:01.884
Listeners, here's a bit of a spoiler alert for you is that by the time you're listening to this episode, the Nature of Podcasting?

00:30:01.884 --> 00:30:06.825
That book may well be live already, so definitely check the show notes.

00:30:06.825 --> 00:30:24.184
We're going to drop those links in just a minute, but before we get there, deepak, we're all in for one more gift from you here today, because I always love asking this question at the end of every episode, and that is what's your one best piece of advice, knowing that we're being listened to by entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs at all different stages of their own growth journeys.

00:30:24.184 --> 00:30:35.189
I know that you've imparted a lot of brilliance and wisdom on us today, and we could have done probably five hour long podcast episodes on each of these topics, absolutely but with that in mind.

00:30:36.070 --> 00:30:41.137
I'm gonna give you the big challenge of boiling it all down to one piece of advice to impart on our listeners here at the end.

00:30:41.137 --> 00:30:45.920
So, deepak, what is that advice?

00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:53.183
you want to leave them with your ego.

00:30:53.183 --> 00:30:53.924
That's it.

00:30:53.924 --> 00:30:55.205
There's no one there.

00:30:55.205 --> 00:30:57.106
There's no cavalry, there's no army.

00:30:57.106 --> 00:30:57.807
You are it.

00:30:57.807 --> 00:30:59.188
Remember that.

00:30:59.188 --> 00:31:00.828
Don't let that dissuade you.

00:31:00.828 --> 00:31:02.210
Let that encourage you.

00:31:02.829 --> 00:31:04.671
When you're yourself, you're doing things for yourself.

00:31:04.671 --> 00:31:07.932
The agenda changes, the speed changes, the pace changes.

00:31:07.932 --> 00:31:13.059
You're the only person that's going to slap yourself when you're upset.

00:31:13.059 --> 00:31:14.884
You're also the person that's going to soothe yourself and bring it out from that.

00:31:14.905 --> 00:31:16.028
Being an entrepreneur is a lonely journey.

00:31:16.028 --> 00:31:21.942
You are going to talk to people and tell them how difficult life is for you and they're going to tell you you chose it because you became an entrepreneur.

00:31:21.942 --> 00:31:24.040
The reality is, this is your journey.

00:31:24.040 --> 00:31:25.104
Make it count.

00:31:25.104 --> 00:31:29.823
And if I could have it my way, Brian, I would have done this 15, 20 years ago.

00:31:29.823 --> 00:31:36.261
At that time, the body and the physical state that I was in was sharper and I could have done more wonderful things that I can do today.

00:31:36.261 --> 00:31:44.584
But then I also chose what I want to do today by doing something which is, I would say, not energy consuming, but it consumes my brain, but it's more about passion in the heart.

00:31:44.584 --> 00:31:46.276
So that's how I find the balance.

00:31:46.276 --> 00:31:48.121
So, lonely journey, stay the course.

00:31:48.121 --> 00:31:49.986
You're your own biggest motivation.

00:31:49.986 --> 00:31:57.949
No one's coming to save you and you chose this and because you chose it, you have yourself to not blame yourself, to encourage, to keep going forward.

00:31:57.949 --> 00:32:00.343
That's my message, Brian, to all entrepreneurs out there.

00:32:01.154 --> 00:32:05.315
Yes, the power of self-accountability and self-responsibility.

00:32:05.315 --> 00:32:10.220
It is a very powerful force and, deepak, I also wish that you were doing this far longer.

00:32:10.220 --> 00:32:15.789
But you allude to my favorite Chinese proverb ever, which is the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago.

00:32:15.789 --> 00:32:18.002
The second best time is right now.

00:32:18.002 --> 00:32:23.616
So I love the fact that you have that recognition and acceptance and really the fact that that excites you.

00:32:23.616 --> 00:32:25.803
It gives you that energy and passion to go on.

00:32:25.803 --> 00:32:38.625
So, with all of that said, I love the fact that it manifests not only in the work that you do with regards to training people, with regards to sales and sales leadership coaching, but the fact that you are putting books into the world and sharing your wisdom on your business website.

00:32:38.625 --> 00:32:39.887
You've got resources.

00:32:39.887 --> 00:32:40.930
You've got blog posts.

00:32:40.930 --> 00:32:43.299
You have so many insights that you share there as well.

00:32:43.299 --> 00:32:44.162
You've got a newsletter.

00:32:44.162 --> 00:32:48.990
So, dr Deepak, for people who want to go deeper into all these great things, drop those links on us.

00:32:48.990 --> 00:32:50.415
Where should listeners go from here?

00:32:50.435 --> 00:32:54.844
So drop the links, pretty simple actually If you're on LinkedIn, connect with me, deepak Uttara, you can pick up the links.

00:32:54.844 --> 00:32:55.785
Pretty simple, actually.

00:32:55.785 --> 00:33:00.692
If you're on LinkedIn, connect with me, deepak Uttara, you can pick up the spelling.

00:33:00.692 --> 00:33:03.121
I'm sure, brian, when you release the podcast, the spelling will be there.

00:33:03.121 --> 00:33:04.663
You'll find me on LinkedIn.

00:33:04.663 --> 00:33:05.385
Connect with me.

00:33:05.385 --> 00:33:07.195
Dm me, brian.

00:33:07.195 --> 00:33:11.507
I get so many DMs from the work I do that sometimes I feel guilty of not responding on time.

00:33:11.507 --> 00:33:13.942
You go search my website.

00:33:13.942 --> 00:33:15.396
Subscribe to my newsletter.

00:33:15.396 --> 00:33:16.357
I'm there, guys.

00:33:16.357 --> 00:33:17.859
My books are going to keep coming in.

00:33:17.859 --> 00:33:19.182
Go on Amazon, type my name.

00:33:19.182 --> 00:33:20.103
You're going to pick up some books.

00:33:20.103 --> 00:33:25.470
I'm not saying that you should buy them, but there's many ways to reach out to me and I'm absolutely available.

00:33:26.270 --> 00:33:28.976
Yes, and, listeners, you already know the drill.

00:33:28.976 --> 00:33:37.366
We're making it as easy as possible for you to find all of those links down below in the show notes, including to his personal LinkedIn, so you don't have to go searching, you can click right on through.

00:33:37.366 --> 00:33:38.428
You hear how inviting he is.

00:33:38.428 --> 00:33:44.345
Reach out to him, have an amazing entrepreneur, someone who's absolutely brilliant, in your network and continue the conversation.

00:33:44.345 --> 00:33:46.259
There's so many different ways that we can all grow.

00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:51.817
So, dr Deepak, on behalf of myself and all the listeners worldwide, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

00:33:51.817 --> 00:33:53.339
Absolutely, brian.

00:33:53.339 --> 00:33:53.900
You take care.

00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:54.320
Bye-bye.

00:33:55.362 --> 00:34:00.948
Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:34:00.948 --> 00:34:04.912
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:34:04.912 --> 00:34:14.141
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom, and I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.00:34:14.141 --> 00:34:22.902


There's a reason why we are ad-free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.00:34:23.014 --> 00:34:24.963


These are not sponsored episodes.00:34:24.963 --> 00:34:26.561


These are not infomercials.00:34:26.561 --> 00:34:30.045


Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.00:34:30.045 --> 00:34:41.001


They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.00:34:41.001 --> 00:34:49.503


So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just wanna invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.00:34:49.503 --> 00:34:50.840


We also have live chat.00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:54.681


If you wanna interact directly with me, go to thewantrepreneurshowcom.00:34:54.681 --> 00:34:56.860


Initiate a live chat.00:34:56.860 --> 00:35:06.291


It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.