834: Mastering Accountability Through the Language of Leadership w/ Erik Berglund

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Wontropner to entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian Lofermento, and we've got an awesome guest today, who I love the fact that his business was really inspired by one profound and amazing question that he was once asked that.

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I know he's going to put the pressure on all of us today for us to ask ourselves that question, so I'll let him tell that story, but let me tell you about him.

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His name is Eric Bergland.

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Eric is the founder of the language of leadership, which is a system he created over nearly a decade of leading sales professionals.

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Eric grew frustrated with his own inability to hold people accountable, only to realize that nearly everyone felt the same way.

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He spent three years developing the program with his team and then began coaching managers through it in 2020.

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Eric is passionate about empowering leaders to be more effective with the team they already have, helping them enjoy their jobs more and get their time back.

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All of us want those outcomes in our own businesses and lives.

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He lives in Bend, oregon, with his wife and two daughters.

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They love to ski, rock climb, camp and adventure together as a family, which immediately tells you something Eric's tougher than I am.

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He's got more of a strong tolerance for that cold weather, but I'm excited to tap into his mind today, so I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Eric Bergland.

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All right, eric, I'm so excited that you're here with us today.

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Welcome to the show, thanks for having me and looking forward to it, and I'm excited to be here.

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Thanks so much, heck.

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Yeah, I didn't even tease it in the bio.

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There's so many cool things I could say about you but you're a fellow young starting entrepreneur as well.

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You and I both ran our first businesses while we were in college, so I know that you've got an interesting story that backs up your business, but I'm going to let you tell listeners take us beyond that bio who's the best at it.

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I'm going to let you tell listeners take us beyond that bio who the heck is Eric?

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How did you start doing all this cool stuff you're into?

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Yeah, I appreciate that.

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That's a great segue.

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I mean, I started cutting my teeth in business actually in high school.

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I was part of a high school business organization called DECA it weirdly stands for Distributive Education Clubs of America and it was a weird high school group that let me learn how to role play.

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Well, you'd put together these business plans for these mythical or created businesses and you'd go pitch them at local and then state and national competitions.

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And so I started doing that at 16 years old and it just worked for my brain.

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I learned that I really enjoyed thinking that way.

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I really I ran our students store.

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Just my brain was naturally built for doing things like that, I guess.

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And then I went to college.

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I had an opportunity to run a college pro painting franchise and that was a phenomenal opportunity, if anybody's.

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I got an exposure to college pro.

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It was a really cool way for college students to paint houses over the summer and to pay other college students to paint houses over the summer for them.

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And so you learn how to run a business.

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It was a franchise, so I learned everything about profit and loss and sales and marketing and just everything it takes to be an effective leader.

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You got to hire people, train them, develop them, build other people and becoming franchise owners.

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It was a really cool model and it's what really allowed me to cut my teeth, learned that I love selling, learned running businesses on those fun things.

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I left college pro.

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I went into financial advising for a couple years.

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That was like a kind of fun path just to learn how to sell stuff.

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I want to learn how to make money for me.

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But I ended up at this great company called Victolic phenomenal organization, 100 year old manufacturer in the mechanical construction industry space sold mechanical piping systems to large contractors.

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Any big tower or high rise or anything like that that's going on in your city Probably people are trying to figure out how to put pipe together inside of it and that's what we sold.

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So I ended up 2012 taking over a team in Victolic, led Oregon, washington and Alaska, had 16 direct reports at 28 years old and that is kind of what led me to the business that I create today.

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But it really did start in high school.

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I got a young beginning to investigating these concepts of business and how do you lead people and how do you communicate through it and how do you sell what's a value proposition and you know, followed that through a college pro and then a number of years as a sales professional.

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So that's the short version of it.

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I'll pause there in case there's anything meaty to dive into.

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And then I'm happy to tell the tale once I got to Victolic.

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But that's the origin story.

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Yeah, I love that, eric, I do want to pile on right here in your story because I relate to it, having started my first business when I was 19 and I feel like, because we got those young starts, eric and, by the way, I was in BPA, which was the rival to DECA.

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So we saw all you DECA kids at the national conventions and we were like, what's DECA?

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Bpa is way cooler, with a way, more appropriate acronym, by the way, business professionals of America.

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So, on that note though, I feel like, because we started so young, it's easy for people I'm sure you get this all the time to look at our entrepreneurial journeys and say, oh well, that's natural, these things come natural to you.

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But it's because you and I were doing it from such a young age that it looks natural.

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But it's things that we grew into, it's things we learned along the way, with a lot of scars and failures and ups and downs along the way.

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So I think that, with that in mind, it's so fascinating to me and I want you to tell that story of the question that you were asked in 2016,.

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But it's funny to me because it's such a simple question that listeners are about to hear from you, but it's also fascinating that you didn't have an answer to it and I didn't have an answer to it for so long, and it's because we've never been forced to think about it.

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So walk us down that path of that realization of holy cow.

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I've been doing this for so long without that intention, to take a step back and assess it.

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Yeah, I'm happy to do that.

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I'm actually going to tie it back to the point you were making, that we cut our teeth at a very young age and we're fortunate enough to have that exposure at that point in our lives and I'd encourage whoever's listening to my feel that way like wow, there's a head start.

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It's still a skill.

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It still took time, right, I used to talk like this and I had to be convinced and coached to pull my hand away from my mouth.

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So it isn't natural.

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I think much of business, much of leadership, much of the skills you develop with the business acumen are conditioned, they're trained, and that's really good news because it doesn't mean you're born with them or born without them.

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It just means you can be trained and reconditioned to learn how to do those things if you so desire.

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You're never too late to start developing those skills.

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In fact, it's way easier to develop them today than it was when we were high school kids trying to figure that stuff out.

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So nobody's behind the eight ball in that regard.

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But fast forward to that question.

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So I set the stage a little bit right.

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I started in this fantastic company.

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I joined this 100 year old entity with a massive sales force, phenomenal organization getting promoted at a young age, 28 years old, and I had 16 direct reports.

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I was the youngest and least experienced person on my team.

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I never sold what most of them actually sold, so you could say I had some headwinds right, I wasn't stepping into a layup of a situation, but for the first few years it was going okay.

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But what I found is over three or four years is that I could produce results.

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But it took a lot of work.

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It was an enormous amount of effort for me to try to help my people along.

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I was going to their appointments and closing deals with them.

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I was doing the prep files and contracts for them.

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I was doing so much of their jobs to help them be successful.

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That was exhausting.

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I was burning out.

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I felt like an adult babysitter.

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I felt like I struggled with talent development.

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I had no idea what it took to actually develop people.

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I had so many team members that started and I had to fire or started and plateaued because I didn't know how to get into that next level.

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I didn't know what I was doing and I wasn't given, to your point, any of the skill to do that right.

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Like most organizations, great organizations or otherwise.

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They promote you and they're like you're good at selling, you can lead people right, and then you just put you in that position to go and do it, and that's great.

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I was pretty sure they had the opportunity, but I never got any sort of training or support on how do you transfer skill and performance, how do you help people get better at their job, how do you not do their jobs for them.

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And that's what led me to this critical moment.

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See, I was trying to leave the company.

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I told you how great it was, had a great setup, liked my job, but I thought I could grow more.

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Really, in hindsight, I was hoping the grass was greener.

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If I'm super honest about it, I had all these problems I didn't know what to do with and I thought if I went over there I wouldn't have them anymore.

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So I was trying to leave and I was interviewing for this other company.

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I was sitting at the final interview with the CEO and he asked me that simple question, the one that's led to the entire creation of my business, the framework for everything that I do, and that simple question was how do you hold your people accountable?

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I'm going to restate it because it's a pretty profound but simple question how do you hold your people accountable?

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And the CEO this, this Wison veteran in his business asked me that simple question and it crushed me.

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At that point I was like 32, 33 years old and I convinced myself I was good at this.

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Right, we'd have all been through imposter syndrome.

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I was past that.

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I was good at this.

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My boss thought I was good at it.

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My team may or may not have, but other people did.

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I thought I was good at this.

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And he asked me this one question and absolutely swept the legs out from underneath me because in that one moment I realized, oh shit, pardon it, but oh shit, I don't have a clue how to answer this question.

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I don't actually know what I do or say when somebody doesn't do what they're supposed to, does it later, does it poorly.

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And I could reflect on my salespeople giving me all the excuses and oh, that was a weird situation, or they're going to use the other guy, or we're too high, or all of the things I heard from my people were running through my head and I realized, oh my gosh, when they say those things, I don't know what to do.

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So I came back from that interview absolutely haunted.

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I felt so inauthentic.

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I felt like a fraud, a lost little boy who had to put on a suit every day and pretend again.

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But it sent me on a mission to start to figure out how do people hold each other accountable.

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So I started asking other leaders.

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I asked my boss, I asked any business leader I knew.

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I was fortunate to know a lot of the business owners and leaders in our network for our profession, and so I was able to ask a lot of people how do you hold people accountable?

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And what I saw tipped me off to the business opportunity.

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It's not so much what I heard, though what I heard mattered, but what I saw was the biggest tip, because most people, brian, when you ask them, hey, how do you hold your people accountable?

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They go like this.

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I know maybe not everybody can see it, but I'm shirking, I'm shrinking away, I'm kind of clenching my abs, protecting myself with my fists.

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We don't like this question, and I witnessed it again and again and again over a cup of coffee or a beer or a walk in the park.

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People would run from even the question how do you hold your people accountable?

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And what they would say were the same things that I had said.

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I made up an answer when I was asked.

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I said I've got good incentive plans, my people should be motivated.

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And I said I've got good systems and processes and softwares and KPIs for reporting so I can know when people aren't accountable.

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But I had no idea what I actually said or did in that moment and that's what tipped me off.

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I mean, maybe there's something else here.

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I had to start digging into that and building a framework for it.

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And so over the course of about three or four years between 2016 and 2019, I started trying to answer that question with my people.

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I had a coach.

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I worked with my coach a little bit.

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He didn't have very much.

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He had one paragraph in his book, as I mentioned.

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I asked my boss you don't know what my boss's answer was.

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I don't mean to throw anybody under the bus, but it's such a hilarious answer I have to use it.

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I asked him hey, how do you hold people accountable?

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And, mind you, this was a word he used all the time.

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Like that company loves the word accountable.

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So I thought, if I ask anybody, the person who uses this word the most should know it.

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How do you do it?

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And the answer he gave me was well, you got to measure where they are and tell them where you're trying to get them and then hold them accountable to getting there.

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That was his definition for how to hold somebody accountable.

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Needless to say, it wasn't very helpful.

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That's circular reasoning.

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Nobody had a good answer, and so I started trying different things and over the course of that three or four years, I ended up building out an entire program.

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I'll tell you briefly about it and then I'll make sure it's more back and forth than just me, brian.

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But what I learned was there is a helpful way to hold people accountable.

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It can be productive and positive, and I can share with people how to do that.

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I have a very clear answer for it today.

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But I also learned that it's really important to set expectations well.

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Most the time when I was disappointed in somebody's performance, I owned a piece of that by making sure excuse me, by having set poor expectations, making a bunch of assumptions or using the same words but meaning different things, and therefore they were set up for failure from the very beginning.

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You set expectations and you hold somebody accountable, but what about?

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That doesn't work.

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Well, what I learned was that a lot of people don't like accountability because it feels negative, it's scary, it's tense.

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In fact, a lot of people today, especially if they're younger, accountability is a four-letter word.

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You better be careful that day you go throw in that accountability word around in your office.

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They never heard it before.

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You might scare some folks.

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So we have a decouple conflict from accountability.

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Accountability is a very healthy, positive thing.

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Use your basketball coach.

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Make any show up at 6 am in the next week to shoot free throws, because you shot four from 10 from the line and that's why the team lost the game.

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You may be making you do something, but it's intended to make you better.

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It's intended to help you grow to perform better in the future with something you're clearly committed to, because you're on the team playing basketball.

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That's accountability.

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It doesn't have to be negative.

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It should be a positive, healthy thing.

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Conflict is a different story.

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Can share more about the difference there, but we needed a different tool.

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When somebody got to conflict where they repeatedly or egregiously violated my expectations, that's a different story.

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We needed to decouple those and have different tools that people could use.

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Because you set expectations, you hold people accountable.

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You have conflict if accountability doesn't work, but I don't know, if conflict doesn't work.

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I don't know if you got somebody who's become a toxin or a cancer or somebody who's negative on your team, you'd be able to turn that person around or separate from them with confidence.

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You need to move quickly through that process.

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I built out an entire framework.

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I had to live through all of that with my team.

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I had 16 people.

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I had to live through all of these phases.

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One last piece that I learned is it's a lot easier to do this if you're working on building and restoring trust all the time, if you have a deep-rooted understanding of their motivations and how they align with the companies.

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I ended up building a curriculum that had all five of those pillars.

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In 2020, I ran 30 leaders at the company through it.

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I learned that other people could do it.

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It wasn't me or my people.

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We weren't special.

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That's when I knew I could leave and actually start this as a business.

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Yeah, gosh, I love that story and I love that overview so much, Eric.

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I also know, along the way, that you are so intentional with the words that you choose.

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What really stands out to me?

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Just hearing the way you talk about this story and hearing the way that you set out to develop your framework, which I'm a big fan of frameworks because it's something we can all lean on.

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Frameworks are strong.

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You said the word systems, for example.

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I think that a framework is a really sound system that we can turn to in the moments where we need it, In moments where everything else flies out the window.

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That's where a framework holds strong.

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I really love that, what you've built there and the research that went into it.

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But what stands out for me about the way that you talk about it is you constantly go back to what do I do or what do I say.

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I think it's so interesting thinking about those two spheres of influence that we can use with our people, with our teams, with ourselves, with people who we care about, is both doing and saying.

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I also know that because you're so intentional with words heck, it's right in the nature of your entire system, which is the language of leadership.

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Where do you fall in that spectrum?

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What are the things that we is it doing or is it saying?

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Oh, it's both.

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But I think a lot of times people say the best way to lead is to lead by example.

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I don't think that's bad, but when you lead by example, what you're really doing is demonstrating a higher level of commitment and showing people what's possible.

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Most of those things are really important.

00:15:15.178 --> 00:15:15.902
Don't get me wrong.

00:15:15.902 --> 00:15:17.139
It's not healthy and helpful.

00:15:17.139 --> 00:15:20.697
But to lead To lead.

00:15:20.738 --> 00:15:25.368
The definition of leadership to lead someone is to influence them towards advantage.

00:15:25.368 --> 00:15:27.501
That's what we're trying to do.

00:15:27.501 --> 00:15:30.995
You're trying to get somebody to do something they wouldn't have otherwise.

00:15:30.995 --> 00:15:34.384
That means you're the proximal cause of their change.

00:15:34.384 --> 00:15:35.919
They wouldn't have done it without you.

00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:38.181
That's what it means to lead somebody.

00:15:38.181 --> 00:15:42.799
Otherwise, you're just letting them do their thing, which is okay sometimes, but you're not leading in those moments.

00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:45.221
And well, what do you do to influence somebody?

00:15:45.221 --> 00:15:46.197
How do you actually do that?

00:15:46.197 --> 00:15:51.004
You gotta talk to them or write it in Slack or email or text.

00:15:51.004 --> 00:15:54.163
Don't get me wrong, there's multiple channels for this and we have to think through it little carefully.

00:15:54.163 --> 00:15:55.841
But that's what you do.

00:15:55.841 --> 00:15:57.542
We communicate to lead other people.

00:15:57.542 --> 00:16:01.326
So, yeah, I'm very selective about the words that we use because you know I spent again.

00:16:01.736 --> 00:16:02.679
I came up in sales.

00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:05.342
You learned this in BPA, just like I did in Deco.

00:16:05.342 --> 00:16:06.217
What you say matters.

00:16:06.217 --> 00:16:12.559
There's a spectrum of what you can say before you win a deal or lose a deal and you start doing more and more and more.

00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:18.024
If you build sales teams and sales processes that refining what you say and how you say it so that it lands with people.

00:16:18.024 --> 00:16:19.559
Well, we don't do any of that.

00:16:19.580 --> 00:16:32.725
When we lead, you know we would spend hours building pitch books and processes and thinking through our discovery questions for our sales process and then I'd spend two minutes maybe preparing for my one-on-one with my person on my team.

00:16:32.725 --> 00:16:40.423
Like we're willing to spend the appropriate amount of time thinking through our message to our clients but we won't do it with our own people.

00:16:40.423 --> 00:16:41.466
Like that's odd to me.

00:16:41.466 --> 00:16:46.404
That struck me as odd and I started realizing I didn't want to do other people's jobs for them anymore.

00:16:46.404 --> 00:16:52.764
I was tired of flying to Anchorage or Fairbanks or Seattle to close deals because they needed me there.

00:16:52.764 --> 00:16:53.304
No, they didn't.

00:16:53.304 --> 00:16:54.768
These are professionals Close the deal man.

00:16:54.768 --> 00:17:02.221
So I had to start being very careful about what words I used to help that person prepare to become good enough to close the deal on their own.

00:17:02.221 --> 00:17:03.399
So I didn't have to fly there anymore.

00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:04.260
I had young kids.

00:17:04.260 --> 00:17:05.384
I didn't want to do that anymore.

00:17:05.474 --> 00:17:09.682
So what you say matters, how you say it arguably matters more.

00:17:09.682 --> 00:17:10.824
We've all heard this before.

00:17:10.824 --> 00:17:12.627
It's not what you said, it's how you said it.

00:17:12.627 --> 00:17:13.617
But that's super true.

00:17:14.434 --> 00:17:21.605
If I start a conversation with you and I say something along the lines of hey, brian, what I really want is for you to have a long conversation here or, excuse me, a long career here.

00:17:21.605 --> 00:17:24.222
And look, I've seen a couple of things that I think are going to get in your way.

00:17:24.222 --> 00:17:26.241
I'd love to buy a cup of coffee and share those with you.

00:17:26.241 --> 00:17:27.638
Could I share those with you at some point?

00:17:27.638 --> 00:17:35.942
That's a very different statement than hey, brian, what I really want is for you to have a long career here, and I got to tell you there's a couple of things that are really getting in the way.

00:17:35.942 --> 00:17:36.999
I'd like to share those with you.

00:17:36.999 --> 00:17:37.500
Could I do that?

00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:40.002
There's a subtle difference in there.

00:17:40.002 --> 00:17:41.622
Sure, I threw in a cup of coffee in the first one.

00:17:41.775 --> 00:17:45.362
My point is upward tones, volume, body language.

00:17:45.362 --> 00:17:53.875
Those communicate things to people subconsciously, and as leaders, we often communicate to people unintentionally our frustration or anger.

00:17:53.875 --> 00:18:06.501
They're in the middle of a frustrating situation with them, and so our body language and tonality and volume and harsh enunciation of consonants conveys a lot to them, and that usually sets them up to be defensive, dodgy.

00:18:06.501 --> 00:18:10.584
All they're trying to do is get out of the way, and that's where you start to hear excuses.

00:18:10.584 --> 00:18:15.163
All those things happen because of how you said the thing, not necessarily what specifically you said.

00:18:15.163 --> 00:18:19.954
So the language of leadership is all about that how and what do I say in these moments?

00:18:19.954 --> 00:18:24.240
Because that's what's going to influence somebody towards an advantage for themselves, for the company, whatever it is.

00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:27.364
And the last piece I'll add as you mentioned, this is a critical piece of it.

00:18:27.875 --> 00:18:32.343
When things really hit the fan, when it's messy, sometimes people say, oh, I rise to the occasion.

00:18:32.343 --> 00:18:34.827
Well, I hate to say it, no, you don't, absolutely nobody does.

00:18:34.827 --> 00:18:51.083
And the reason that NFL quarterbacks and teams spend hours and days before every game practicing for that fourth quarter play they might need to run in the Super Bowl, it's because in moments of stress we don't rise to the occasion, we actually regress to our highest level of training.

00:18:51.083 --> 00:19:04.181
And so the programs that I deploy with teams is to help them practice, rehearse, train for these tense moments so that when it arises, you can say it with the right tone, body language, et cetera, and you'll have the right words.

00:19:04.181 --> 00:19:06.599
Because you've done it so many times, it'll just become muscle memory.

00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.299
But that's where I fall on that spectrum.

00:19:08.299 --> 00:19:16.659
What you say matters, how you say it matters more, and we need a system and a framework to practice so that we can effectively deliver it in times of stress and struggle.

00:19:17.234 --> 00:19:18.883
Gosh, eric, raising the bar.

00:19:18.883 --> 00:19:31.458
Honestly, all of this stuff is what we're really tying this into is incredibly high standards for ourselves, for our businesses, for the teams that we run, which, in turn, means that we're going to deliver better things for our clients, which, for me.

00:19:31.458 --> 00:19:37.967
I believe that entrepreneurship changes the world, and I think that this makes us all better business leaders, which makes the world a better place.

00:19:37.967 --> 00:19:46.263
So I love these higher standards and I also know actually I'm going to make a quick aside before I could ask you a million questions, because it's so much good stuff that we're diving into.

00:19:46.263 --> 00:19:51.146
Eric, I know that listeners are going to be like Brian what's the answer to the question?

00:19:51.146 --> 00:19:52.980
How do you hold people accountable?

00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:56.044
We have to go back there, eric, before people tune out of this.

00:19:56.044 --> 00:20:00.807
So take us down that road, especially since we all know that you didn't have an answer.

00:20:00.807 --> 00:20:01.900
A lot of us wouldn't have an answer.

00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:06.222
You transparently called it up, you made something up and I think most of us would in that moment.

00:20:06.222 --> 00:20:09.556
So give us a better answer, yeah absolutely, man.

00:20:09.596 --> 00:20:12.065
If I could go back to that job interview, I'd crush it this time.

00:20:12.065 --> 00:20:17.223
I know exactly how to answer that question, but we have to go backwards before we can go forwards here a little bit.

00:20:17.223 --> 00:20:25.686
Okay, the definition of accountability that most people walk around with, whether you've ever thought about it or not, how would you know accountability in the wild if you saw it?

00:20:25.686 --> 00:20:30.405
Most of the time, we tend to think that an accountable person does what they say they're going to do.

00:20:30.405 --> 00:20:38.215
It's our usual active definition of accountability and that's what we're expecting of people that they're going to do what they say they're going to do.

00:20:38.215 --> 00:20:39.339
Except what about when they don't?

00:20:39.339 --> 00:20:46.041
When they don't, if that's our definition, we're kind of handcuffed and we tend to use the tools that have been used on us.

00:20:46.041 --> 00:20:54.682
I don't know about you, brian, but the tools that were used on me growing up and three other years in my career were guilt, shame, negativity, the doghouse, avoidance, so somebody doesn't do what they're supposed to.

00:20:54.682 --> 00:20:59.705
We tend to use the tools of the people who use them on us and try to hold us accountable.

00:20:59.705 --> 00:21:02.301
In those ways, we have this negative culture of accountability.

00:21:02.301 --> 00:21:07.195
So the change that I had to make, the fundamental change that I made to help us understand what we do.

00:21:07.195 --> 00:21:11.165
To hold someone accountable starts by expanding our definition of accountability.

00:21:11.165 --> 00:21:15.025
See, I too think that an accountable person does what they say they're going to do, except.

00:21:15.025 --> 00:21:21.325
I know people are going to fail quite often, and it's not necessarily because they're not the right person or I made a bad hire or whatever.

00:21:21.325 --> 00:21:23.319
It's because we put them in complex situations.

00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:27.944
If it was easy, we wouldn't pay them very much or we'd start using chat, gpt or something to do it.

00:21:27.944 --> 00:21:34.807
They're going to fail because that's why they have jobs, because it's hard, it's difficult, it's challenging and they have complex lives.

00:21:34.807 --> 00:21:37.420
Throw in remote work, covid, all those things.

00:21:37.420 --> 00:21:38.442
Complexity abounds.

00:21:38.442 --> 00:21:41.599
People are going to fail and it's what they do when they fail.

00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:43.424
That makes somebody accountable or not, in my opinion.

00:21:43.424 --> 00:21:46.202
So I'd expand my definition and here's what it is.

00:21:46.275 --> 00:21:49.156
I think an accountable person does what they say they're going to do, except when they can't.

00:21:49.156 --> 00:21:56.929
That person proactively communicates it to stakeholders, self-diagnosis the nature of the miss or the failure and solves for the future.

00:21:56.929 --> 00:21:59.424
That's full accountability.

00:21:59.424 --> 00:22:05.103
That's what I expect from people, and if somebody takes a second and internalizes that while you're listening to this, it might look like you.

00:22:05.103 --> 00:22:07.865
You might naturally do a lot of that.

00:22:07.865 --> 00:22:08.890
I'm not saying you're perfect either.

00:22:08.890 --> 00:22:11.007
I'm just saying you might naturally do some of those things.

00:22:11.007 --> 00:22:18.390
And you might think about your team and go yeah, a small percentage of my people I've learned it's about 15% of people do this automatically.

00:22:18.390 --> 00:22:20.686
I don't know why, but they do.

00:22:20.686 --> 00:22:23.249
I don't need to get into nature or nurture, they just do.

00:22:23.249 --> 00:22:27.171
And it's weird to those of us who do that other people don't.

00:22:27.171 --> 00:22:31.351
That's what creates a lot of workplace tension and frustration is the assumption that everybody works that way.

00:22:31.351 --> 00:22:33.125
So we have to expand our definition.

00:22:33.125 --> 00:22:34.945
That's what I think an accountable person does.

00:22:35.059 --> 00:22:37.425
They go through this sequential process.

00:22:37.425 --> 00:22:38.689
That's what accountability is.

00:22:38.689 --> 00:22:39.692
It's a sequential process.

00:22:39.692 --> 00:22:41.203
Did you do the thing you were supposed to?

00:22:41.203 --> 00:22:46.940
No, okay, did you tell the person ahead of time that you weren't going to be able to?

00:22:46.940 --> 00:22:47.884
What caused the failure?

00:22:47.884 --> 00:22:48.519
Now?

00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:49.786
What are you going to do next time?

00:22:49.786 --> 00:22:54.111
We ask those questions internally in order to be more accountable for the future.

00:22:54.111 --> 00:23:07.387
So to hold somebody accountable now, now that we know what the definition is, to hold someone accountable is to make them live through that process, to ask them a series of questions each and every time.

00:23:07.387 --> 00:23:10.192
They don't do it, do it late or do it poorly.

00:23:10.192 --> 00:23:12.386
Those are the only three ways for someone to not be accountable.

00:23:12.386 --> 00:23:22.790
Any time somebody doesn't do it, does it late or does it poorly, I'm going to ask them a series of five questions, in the same order each and every time.

00:23:22.790 --> 00:23:25.306
And because I do that, a few things are going to happen.

00:23:25.306 --> 00:23:29.540
The first thing that's going to happen is they're going to know it's coming Right now.

00:23:29.580 --> 00:23:32.686
Listeners you have people in your organization you're adapting to.

00:23:32.686 --> 00:23:34.371
You've got a character.

00:23:34.371 --> 00:23:36.222
I'm not going to name them I usually have names for them.

00:23:36.222 --> 00:23:37.266
But broad audience.

00:23:37.266 --> 00:23:45.403
I'm not going to name them, but you have a character you know this person's name that when you assign something, you 100% know you're not going to get it the day it's due.

00:23:45.403 --> 00:23:47.140
They're going to do it.

00:23:47.140 --> 00:23:50.429
The quality is going to be really good, but you don't know when you're going to get it.

00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:56.944
Man, if you go ask them the day it's due, they're going to give you every excuse under the sun and not even more time, and all that stuff is going to happen.

00:23:56.944 --> 00:23:58.304
So you don't even ask anymore.

00:23:58.304 --> 00:24:06.183
You've been conditioned and you've conditioned them that it's completely fine for them to take 48 more hours.

00:24:06.183 --> 00:24:20.250
So the first thing that happens when you start holding people accountable consistently with the same questions is they know it's coming and they adapt their behavior to you, instead of you conditioning them that they're special and get 48 extra hours on every assignment.

00:24:20.250 --> 00:24:21.031
That's the first benefit.

00:24:21.031 --> 00:24:25.461
The second is that you're asking questions that help them level up their skill and their commitment.

00:24:25.461 --> 00:24:27.223
That's what leads to performance.

00:24:27.223 --> 00:24:28.884
Skill plus commitment equals performance.

00:24:29.619 --> 00:24:34.029
So every time they fail, I'm going to make a person dig in a little bit.

00:24:34.029 --> 00:24:37.366
What is it that caused you to miss?

00:24:37.366 --> 00:24:37.607
Here?

00:24:37.607 --> 00:24:39.943
I'm not going to say it that way, I can demonstrate that in a second.

00:24:39.943 --> 00:24:43.867
But what caused them to miss and when did they know they weren't going to be successful?

00:24:43.867 --> 00:24:47.269
Those are two critical factors that determine their skill and their commitment to success.

00:24:47.269 --> 00:24:56.284
I'm going to help them investigate that, using proper tone and everything to help them have a real conversation as opposed to shutting them down so that they level up their skill and their commitment each time.

00:24:56.284 --> 00:25:00.645
And the last thing I'm going to do is I'm going to reassign the work back to them, because it's their freaking job and it's not mine.

00:25:00.645 --> 00:25:04.928
And now that I've talked to their skill and their commitment level challenges and have helped them level up a little bit.

00:25:04.928 --> 00:25:08.442
I'm going to reassign it back to them and make them push it across the finish line themselves.

00:25:08.763 --> 00:25:09.806
There's times when you can't.

00:25:09.806 --> 00:25:10.428
I respect that.

00:25:10.428 --> 00:25:11.169
I run a business too.

00:25:11.169 --> 00:25:11.971
We got hard deadlines.

00:25:11.971 --> 00:25:20.509
If they're possible, I'm going to make an adult come face to face with the consequences of their own failure, which means they might have to open their laptop at night instead of me.

00:25:20.509 --> 00:25:27.967
They might have to spend the time finishing that report or redoing it or something, before the board meeting instead of me doing it over the weekend.

00:25:27.967 --> 00:25:30.105
That's what it means to hold someone accountable.

00:25:30.105 --> 00:25:31.223
That was a long-winded version.

00:25:31.223 --> 00:25:32.047
The short-winded version.

00:25:32.047 --> 00:25:41.865
To hold somebody accountable is to ask them a series of questions each and every time they fail, so that they get better and finish the job themselves and that they are more accountable in the future.

00:25:42.560 --> 00:25:50.628
Yeah, gosh, eric, you say it's a long-winded answer, but it gives us so many unique insights that this next question is not even going to be a question.

00:25:50.628 --> 00:26:04.711
I feel weird even airing this, but I trust you fully that you're going to give us some additional insights here, because hearing you talk about this obviously for me, as a business owner with a growing team across a portfolio of businesses that I have, I love being a better leader.

00:26:04.711 --> 00:26:12.588
It's something that I've become more committed to over the years, because when I was 19, gosh, I was just trying to keep myself in check, like that was all I had to worry about.

00:26:12.588 --> 00:26:22.721
The older that I get, the more responsible that I get for other people's livelihoods and for their well-being financially, mentally, professional career development, skill-wise, all of those things.

00:26:22.721 --> 00:26:26.691
It really makes me realize that there's so much that goes into this.

00:26:26.691 --> 00:26:31.971
While we're also managing all of this, eric, we're also still managing ourselves.

00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:35.750
I can't help but think to this clip that I saw of Kobe Bryant.

00:26:35.750 --> 00:26:47.933
I'm a Boston Celtics fan, I'm originally from Boston, but I got to shout out Kobe here because I remember he was on a TV show once and the host asked him Kobe, how do you train like such a beast in the off season.

00:26:47.933 --> 00:26:50.488
What is it about you that doesn't fail?

00:26:50.488 --> 00:26:51.541
Because here we are, eric.

00:26:51.541 --> 00:27:03.864
We're talking about failure, letting ourselves down, letting our teams down, and Kobe had such a profound answer that I try to live up to this standard and I'm curious how it fits in with the way that you think about accountability, whether it's of others or ourselves.

00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:07.088
Kobe said I've already signed the contract.

00:27:07.088 --> 00:27:11.749
I don't negotiate with myself when I set out once the season ends.

00:27:11.749 --> 00:27:16.404
I've signed a contract saying this is what I'm doing this summer and I will not negotiate.

00:27:16.404 --> 00:27:30.906
Because, eric, when I was an immature entrepreneur, when I was 19, 20, 21 and figuring things out, I constantly negotiated with myself and when those deadlines came up, I was like, well, it's okay if I put it off tomorrow, because it was okay quote unquote.

00:27:30.906 --> 00:27:36.903
So it's that self-negotiation that I've been thinking about so much lately for myself and my teams.

00:27:36.903 --> 00:27:42.625
Give us some insights here, because I feel like that's one of the ways we let ourselves and our teams down.

00:27:43.741 --> 00:27:45.327
Yeah, great, great perspective.

00:27:45.327 --> 00:27:49.711
And it's a natural reaction to this conversation to be a self-reflective, right?

00:27:49.711 --> 00:27:57.131
Because in the moment of trying to hold somebody accountable, one of the conversations we catastrophize in our head is oh God, what if they call me out too, because I'm not perfect?

00:27:57.131 --> 00:28:00.548
Right, I should be held accountable to some things I screw up.

00:28:00.548 --> 00:28:02.728
I'm not going to fit into that category of complex life.

00:28:02.728 --> 00:28:03.604
I'm going to fail too.

00:28:03.604 --> 00:28:06.627
So we have to go and kind of prepare to expect that a little bit.

00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:09.689
And there's a whole e-book that I wrote called the Big Four Excuses.

00:28:09.689 --> 00:28:11.586
It helps us navigate how some of those come up.

00:28:11.586 --> 00:28:17.087
We can talk about it if you'd like to, but I'm a big fan of that Don't negotiate with your self-mentality for yourself.

00:28:17.087 --> 00:28:20.911
In fact, the way that I like to think about it, I didn't write this myself.

00:28:20.911 --> 00:28:23.247
It came out of an awesome book called Freed to Lead.

00:28:23.247 --> 00:28:28.049
But it's that discretion is a cage with velvet bars.

00:28:28.049 --> 00:28:35.470
We think we're freed because we can make more choices, when in reality, if we just, like Kobe mom of mentality, say, nope, this is happening.

00:28:35.470 --> 00:28:39.390
I'm not negotiating with myself about this processor thing that I'm going to do.

00:28:39.390 --> 00:28:45.071
Well, we get a lot more done and we spend a lot less time debating or talking ourselves out of things.

00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:46.042
Now, that's for me.

00:28:46.042 --> 00:28:48.546
That's my internal bar.

00:28:48.546 --> 00:28:53.372
I have zero expectations that other people live that way.

00:28:53.372 --> 00:28:54.462
I would like them to.

00:28:54.462 --> 00:28:55.406
I think it's healthier.

00:28:55.406 --> 00:28:56.189
I think it's better.

00:28:56.189 --> 00:28:59.209
I'm not here to cast my morality or my structure on someone else's lives.

00:28:59.209 --> 00:29:07.029
In fact, I'm very happy to employ people as an employee, a vendor, a contractor, whatever it is, who have wildly different views on this.

00:29:07.029 --> 00:29:08.104
That's completely fine to me.

00:29:08.104 --> 00:29:15.547
However, in the moment when they were supposed to do the thing they were supposed to do, my first question is going to check in on this.

00:29:15.547 --> 00:29:17.567
So let's just say you didn't do what you were supposed to.

00:29:17.567 --> 00:29:20.367
Let's go to the mom of mentality and skip the workout.

00:29:20.367 --> 00:29:25.961
My very first question to a person who skips a workout that they've committed to and I want you to understand.

00:29:25.981 --> 00:29:27.045
That's a really critical point.

00:29:27.045 --> 00:29:28.009
They committed to it.

00:29:28.009 --> 00:29:33.865
If you go back to our definition of accountability, it's people who do what they say they're going to do, not what they heard they're going to do.

00:29:33.865 --> 00:29:39.788
This is a critical failure most leaders make, because they tell people what to do instead of getting the people to tell them what they're going to do.

00:29:39.788 --> 00:29:44.191
We validate back to people what they're going to do instead of making people validate back to us.

00:29:44.191 --> 00:29:47.929
But if they said it to me, I can hold them accountable to it.

00:29:47.969 --> 00:29:52.369
Now my very first question to that person let's say it's that workout example.

00:29:52.369 --> 00:29:55.410
My very first question is hey, when did you realize you weren't going to get that workout in?

00:29:55.410 --> 00:29:58.559
That's the first question.

00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:00.525
After I asked them hey, did you get the workout in?

00:30:00.525 --> 00:30:01.267
That's the first question.

00:30:01.267 --> 00:30:02.840
The second is no, I didn't get it in.

00:30:02.840 --> 00:30:05.522
When did you realize you weren't gonna get that workout in?

00:30:05.835 --> 00:30:14.061
And what they say matters because if I can help that person level up that mentality, that Mamba mentality, that's the commitment piece I'm talking about.

00:30:14.061 --> 00:30:19.719
And they say you know, I knew last night I was gonna set my alarm and not wake up to it.

00:30:19.719 --> 00:30:22.423
Well, okay, I can help them think through that a little bit.

00:30:22.423 --> 00:30:24.502
What might you need to do to take your alarm seriously?

00:30:24.502 --> 00:30:28.401
Or don't set your alarm, quit lying to yourself, I don't know whatever the right guidance is there.

00:30:28.401 --> 00:30:34.278
Or they might say you know, I woke up that morning and I went to put on my running shoes and I just didn't have it.

00:30:34.278 --> 00:30:34.820
I quit then.

00:30:34.894 --> 00:30:44.340
Well, whether you quit the night before, or whether you quit the morning of, or whether you quit once you got to the gym, that matters and I can help you level up in that process so that your commitment level is higher next time.

00:30:44.340 --> 00:30:47.323
But that's why these questions are so important.

00:30:47.323 --> 00:30:48.338
It's not.

00:30:48.338 --> 00:30:49.282
Why did you fail?

00:30:49.282 --> 00:30:50.721
That's not a very effective question.

00:30:50.721 --> 00:30:53.939
When did you realize you weren't gonna follow through on your workout this morning?

00:30:54.555 --> 00:30:57.801
The second question would then be well, what do you think really caused that to happen?

00:30:57.801 --> 00:31:01.521
Cause then I can help the person think through oh, I need to prep my shoes the night before.

00:31:01.521 --> 00:31:03.603
Oh, I need to give myself 15 more minutes in the alarm.

00:31:03.603 --> 00:31:09.143
Or, oh, I need to pre-design my workout the night before so that when I show up to the gym, I know what I'm gonna do.

00:31:09.143 --> 00:31:12.481
Those are all skill things I can help them level up their skill in that moment.

00:31:12.481 --> 00:31:14.460
Then I can help them solve for the future.

00:31:14.460 --> 00:31:22.638
Now that we've talked through that and you know you need to set your alarm differently and build the workout the day before, what can you do next time?

00:31:22.638 --> 00:31:24.181
What are you gonna do for your next workout?

00:31:24.181 --> 00:31:26.542
How do you make sure you apply this to the next opportunity?

00:31:26.542 --> 00:31:29.500
And I'm gonna make them come up with their own plan.

00:31:29.500 --> 00:31:31.540
Well, tuesday is my next workout.

00:31:31.540 --> 00:31:33.060
I'm gonna design it on Tuesday afternoon.

00:31:33.060 --> 00:31:39.165
It's in my calendar at three o'clock now and I'm gonna set my alarm for 4.45 instead of five, so I have 15 more minutes Hot dang.

00:31:39.674 --> 00:31:45.059
I just helped that person level up their skill and their commitment and since they told me what they were gonna do differently, I can now hold them accountable to it.

00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:48.862
That's the process of holding somebody accountable.

00:31:48.862 --> 00:31:49.604
That's how it applies.

00:31:49.604 --> 00:31:52.076
But I wanna draw back to your distinction Internal.

00:31:52.076 --> 00:31:53.742
Don't negotiate with yourself.

00:31:53.742 --> 00:31:55.540
You're a big fan of that mentality for me.

00:31:55.540 --> 00:32:01.983
But I don't expect or even need that from my employees, contractors, vendors, bosses, whatever.

00:32:01.983 --> 00:32:04.101
I just need to know what they are committed to.

00:32:04.101 --> 00:32:07.304
If they tell me now, I can follow this process with them.

00:32:07.304 --> 00:32:09.678
Whether I think they should be committed tomorrow or not is a different skill.

00:32:09.678 --> 00:32:11.478
We teach in the academy and in the course as well.

00:32:11.478 --> 00:32:15.224
But that's not necessarily required for me to agree with what they committed to.

00:32:15.224 --> 00:32:16.219
I just need them to commit to it.

00:32:16.894 --> 00:32:20.045
Yeah, gosh, eric, again it's raising the bar.

00:32:20.045 --> 00:32:22.900
This is gonna be like the three words when I think of Eric Berglund.

00:32:22.900 --> 00:32:27.711
It's gonna be raising the bar, because even hearing you talk about it could be a lot worse.

00:32:28.015 --> 00:32:34.501
Even hearing you talk about that misworkout like you make me feel bad for myself about all the things that I've not followed through with.

00:32:34.501 --> 00:32:38.586
But then you ease that pain because it's funny.

00:32:38.586 --> 00:32:42.301
People can criticize and we all get criticized on a daily basis for a million different things.

00:32:42.301 --> 00:32:43.859
People, just as entrepreneurs.

00:32:43.859 --> 00:32:47.282
We put ourselves out there and it's easy to poke at us in different ways.

00:32:47.282 --> 00:32:58.002
But I think the thing that as I've matured as a person and as an entrepreneur, what I've really realized is that there's people who poke in a different way, who poke not to criticize and not to be a hater.

00:32:58.002 --> 00:33:02.421
We've got well-wishing haters that are worried for us and scared for us and all those different things.

00:33:02.421 --> 00:33:14.942
But actually this is genuinely, Eric, when you talk about missing that workout, it is because I want to see you succeed, because I want you to be better and do better in the future, and I think that's such an important distinction.

00:33:14.942 --> 00:33:17.222
There's a million more ways that we could go into this.

00:33:17.335 --> 00:33:19.423
Listeners, I'm gonna throw this out there for you all.

00:33:19.423 --> 00:33:23.760
Eric doesn't know this just yet, but we are gonna be inviting him back for an Action Saturday episode.

00:33:23.760 --> 00:33:26.022
So if you want more, Eric, you're going to get more of that.

00:33:26.022 --> 00:33:29.761
But, Eric, I can't let you go here today without talking about those excuses.

00:33:29.761 --> 00:33:33.660
You alluded to it in your e-book and I want you to talk about how listeners can get their hands on that.

00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:37.665
But the big four excuses why is it that we fail?

00:33:37.665 --> 00:33:41.325
You've asked a lot of people that series of questions.

00:33:41.325 --> 00:33:42.579
What are some of those?

00:33:42.579 --> 00:33:47.882
And, knowing that you think in terms of frameworks, what are those common things where we let ourselves down?

00:33:49.125 --> 00:33:50.028
Yeah, great question.

00:33:50.028 --> 00:33:57.661
So I wanna go back a second, because it's important to note in those accountability questions that I just emulated in this hypothetical workout example, how I ask those questions matters a lot.

00:33:57.661 --> 00:34:02.601
There's a big difference between Brian when did you realize you weren't gonna be able to make that workout yesterday?

00:34:02.601 --> 00:34:05.602
Well, that's a fairly aggressive way for me to say it.

00:34:05.602 --> 00:34:10.822
You can't see me, but my body language I leaned in, I'm harshly enunciating my consonants.

00:34:10.822 --> 00:34:14.936
Right, I'm telling you something without telling you it, by doing it that way Instead.

00:34:14.936 --> 00:34:19.173
Hey, brian, when did you realize you weren't gonna be able to get that one done?

00:34:19.193 --> 00:34:19.255
man.

00:34:19.375 --> 00:34:20.599
I'm gonna answer a different question.

00:34:21.235 --> 00:34:23.181
Because listeners can't see you like I can.

00:34:23.181 --> 00:34:35.159
Listeners, I feel like Eric is so disappointed with me in that first question, whereas the second way that he asks it it feels like he's there with me, that he's a teammate and he's encouraging me.

00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:40.164
So, yeah, it's even in the shape of your eyes, eric, the way, everything about the way you deliver it matters.

00:34:40.164 --> 00:34:43.038
So, yeah, carry it on for listeners who may not be able to see.

00:34:43.961 --> 00:34:44.382
For sure.

00:34:44.382 --> 00:34:48.922
And the difference is I'm earnestly interested in that, like I'm curious and I can even empathize more.

00:34:48.922 --> 00:34:51.677
Hey, dude, I get some of my workouts, I get it, man, like that happens.

00:34:51.677 --> 00:34:54.179
But hey, when did you know you weren't gonna be able to make this one?

00:34:54.179 --> 00:34:58.840
I can casual it up a bunch of different ways, make it look, sound and feel like you.

00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:00.239
You know I do this all over the country.

00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:01.617
There's different ways.

00:35:01.617 --> 00:35:09.179
People in the Northeast talk kindly to each other and the way we talk kindly to each other on the West Coast Midwesterners are the same.

00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:12.340
There's different dialects and lingo that you use with people.

00:35:12.474 --> 00:35:17.661
What I practice with leaders in my academy is how to make it there so looks and sounds and feels their way.

00:35:17.661 --> 00:35:29.639
But if you notice the distinction, the intensity of me asking it directly, with loud tones, higher volume, downward tones as opposed to upward tones, well that matters.

00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:31.922
One's not necessarily right more than the other.

00:35:31.922 --> 00:35:33.782
It's relational, it's subjective to the individual.

00:35:33.782 --> 00:35:36.380
Some people you need to come at them with high energy and high intensity.

00:35:36.380 --> 00:35:43.280
Others you really have to be a little softer with in order for them to be able to play along in the sandbox and learn something through this experience.

00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:50.121
So being intentional about tonality is what I teach more than any one specific tone that somebody might need to adopt.

00:35:50.121 --> 00:35:59.963
So it's an important distinction because you can hear those questions and things, that the magic is saying those words and it kind of is, but it's saying them in a way the other person will hear and respond to.

00:35:59.963 --> 00:36:05.902
That helps them level up and get better so that they fail less in the future, and that's what I'm most interested in with that person.

00:36:06.054 --> 00:36:07.760
Now to the excuses question.

00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:12.097
Look, the inevitable outcome of this, the.

00:36:12.097 --> 00:36:19.742
In fact, some of you listening have already started catastrophizing this in your brain or mentally wargaming this, giving away free mental rent to your person.

00:36:19.742 --> 00:36:22.684
As you think, man, if I asked my person that, here's what they would say.

00:36:22.684 --> 00:36:24.621
You already know because you've lived through it.

00:36:24.621 --> 00:36:27.922
Well, I lived through it too and I've coached hundreds of leaders through this process.

00:36:27.922 --> 00:36:37.427
Now, and what I learned in listening to all of the leaders' stories of implementing this language is that you deal with excuses and I did too and you want to know what the weirdest thing is.

00:36:37.427 --> 00:36:54.679
The excuses I heard leading a team of outbound sales professionals in the Pacific Northwest are the exact same excuses as I heard from IT workers in Chicago and welders in the Dakotas and educators in Florida.

00:36:55.474 --> 00:37:05.079
I've had people from every path vertical, industry, seniority level, in my course and curriculum and academy and all of them hear the same excuses.

00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:06.202
So I wrote this e-book.

00:37:06.202 --> 00:37:07.324
It's on my website, it's free.

00:37:07.324 --> 00:37:08.527
I'd love for you to check it out.

00:37:08.527 --> 00:37:09.739
It's gotten great feedback so far.

00:37:10.434 --> 00:37:11.840
There's only four excuses in the world.

00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:15.943
Every single excuse you've heard boils into these four.

00:37:15.943 --> 00:37:26.222
And this is really important because if we think back to frameworks, if we think back to the reality of developing skill, which you can do as a leader, you can adapt to four excuses.

00:37:26.222 --> 00:37:28.141
You can have a play for four.

00:37:28.141 --> 00:37:29.579
You can't have a play for 40.

00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:30.322
That's too much.

00:37:30.322 --> 00:37:32.282
No one's smart enough or capable enough to do that.

00:37:32.282 --> 00:37:33.559
But you can have a play for four.

00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:35.405
That's what the e-book lays out.

00:37:35.474 --> 00:37:38.601
There's a very simple four step play to handle any of those four excuses.

00:37:38.601 --> 00:37:41.460
The first thing we do is identify what exactly we're dealing with.

00:37:41.460 --> 00:37:44.762
The second thing we do is we avoid the bait.

00:37:44.762 --> 00:37:52.760
The every excuse has bait on it and sometimes it's juicy and real and truthful bait and that's what makes it so easy to swallow.

00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:57.505
But if you swallow that bait, you're gonna let that person hijack the conversation.

00:37:57.505 --> 00:38:00.800
That's what excuses are designed to do To hijack the conversation.

00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:04.059
But if you can identify it ahead of time, you can avoid the bait.

00:38:04.059 --> 00:38:10.664
You can directly address that particular excuse and redirect it into something more and more helpful.

00:38:10.664 --> 00:38:13.378
So I'll give you the four excuses here, then I'll talk you through that real quick.

00:38:13.378 --> 00:38:16.139
The four excuses are this Number one it's not my fault.

00:38:17.155 --> 00:38:20.922
You've all heard this in different variations Get, that person was supposed to do that.

00:38:20.922 --> 00:38:22.380
I didn't get it from the contractor.

00:38:22.380 --> 00:38:24.920
The vendor never got me this Bob never did that thing.

00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:27.300
That's a very common one.

00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:28.739
We tend to hear it in those ways.

00:38:28.739 --> 00:38:31.501
The second one is I didn't know.

00:38:31.501 --> 00:38:33.559
I wasn't aware I was supposed to do that.

00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:42.684
You might have a banner in front of the person's desk that lays out there SOP or process, and somehow people will still find a way to tell you they didn't know they were supposed to do it.

00:38:42.684 --> 00:38:43.465
It happens all the time.

00:38:43.465 --> 00:38:47.144
The third one is I'm on it now.

00:38:47.144 --> 00:38:48.298
This is rapid agreement.

00:38:48.675 --> 00:38:50.173
This isn't, as if feel like an excuse.

00:38:50.173 --> 00:38:51.621
That's what makes the bait so juicy.

00:38:51.621 --> 00:38:57.264
It feels like this person is giving you everything you wanted and what they're really saying is oh Brian, I'm so sorry, that'll never happen again.

00:38:57.264 --> 00:38:58.619
I'll totally go do it differently now.

00:38:58.619 --> 00:39:04.007
And it's designed to get you to say, ok, that'd be great, thanks, and not talk about it anymore.

00:39:04.007 --> 00:39:11.481
But the reality is, if that person knew how to do it differently, they probably would have People very rarely maliciously fail or forget things.

00:39:11.481 --> 00:39:15.545
So they probably don't know how or have a good process to remind themselves.

00:39:15.545 --> 00:39:17.059
So we can't take that bait.

00:39:18.355 --> 00:39:21.123
And the last excuse is that's not normal.

00:39:21.123 --> 00:39:26.701
This is a person telling you, ah, it's a one off or ah, it's a super weird client, so that was just a weird week for me.

00:39:26.701 --> 00:39:36.514
This is a person trying to convince you that the thing you're sharing with them doesn't fit, it's not real, it's not accurate, it shouldn't be counted in that way.

00:39:36.514 --> 00:39:40.217
All four of those are the excuses that you hear when I would challenge anybody.

00:39:40.217 --> 00:39:42.965
Do the message to Brian myself, whatever it is.

00:39:42.965 --> 00:39:44.360
If you've got a different one, hit me with it.

00:39:44.614 --> 00:39:48.164
I want to find the fifth excuse, but I haven't found one yet.

00:39:48.164 --> 00:40:07.867
The one that I thought was the fifth excuse for about a month or two, as I heard it from a client for the first time back in Q3, q4 of last year was I don't trust you, something to the effect of I don't trust you or feel safe in this conversation, and for a while I thought you know that's absolutely designed to hijack the conversation.

00:40:07.867 --> 00:40:10.623
This fits the model of an excuse.

00:40:10.623 --> 00:40:14.063
But then I started realizing that that's just and it's not my fault, it's yours.

00:40:14.063 --> 00:40:20.746
That's it's not my fault, but they're pointing it right back at you saying it's your fault, that I don't trust you in this way.

00:40:20.746 --> 00:40:22.541
So our direct approach to that at work.

00:40:22.675 --> 00:40:28.541
Now, I can't go through all four of those right now, but let me give you a simple example of how you handle these excuses.

00:40:28.541 --> 00:40:33.786
If a person's coming at me with, oh that's not my fault, eric, that guy was supposed to do that thing.

00:40:33.786 --> 00:40:44.981
I'm going to retort with something like again, it's contextual, relational, geographic lingo, all that stuff but something along the lines of hey, look, I got to tell you, man, there's a lot of stuff in our business that isn't our fault, but it's still our responsibility.

00:40:44.981 --> 00:40:45.643
And I get it.

00:40:45.643 --> 00:40:47.007
A client's kind of been a jerk.

00:40:47.007 --> 00:40:50.003
He hasn't been getting stuff to us, but look, it's still our responsibility.

00:40:50.003 --> 00:40:52.663
What are you going to do next time to make sure you get that thing on time from him?

00:40:52.663 --> 00:40:57.447
Or how are you going to go get that from him today so that we don't miss this deadline that we have to go hit.

00:40:57.447 --> 00:41:00.182
So I'm going to acknowledge that there is truth to this.

00:41:00.954 --> 00:41:06.724
There's a lot of stuff that's not our fault in reality, and part of being a mature adult, a business owner, a leader, is still taking responsibility for it.

00:41:06.724 --> 00:41:12.382
So I'm going to confront them, address them with a hard truth like that, and I can ramp it up or down in intensity.

00:41:12.382 --> 00:41:25.364
I can add tone and volume and all sorts of things to make that person shrink or lean in, and as long as I do that intentionally, I can steer that person into a more productive conversation about how they're never going to fail this way again without having to actually say it that way.

00:41:25.364 --> 00:41:26.798
So that's excuses.

00:41:26.798 --> 00:41:28.163
Everybody leans into them.

00:41:28.514 --> 00:41:34.163
When you start holding people accountable, the most inevitable thing that's going to happen someone's going to throw one of these excuses at you.

00:41:34.163 --> 00:41:45.101
But if you know there's only four and you can have that little cheat sheet that I put in the ebook pulled up, well, you can navigate that far more productively and I've had plenty of clients who share with me.

00:41:45.101 --> 00:41:48.025
Once you start using this, you know what happens.

00:41:48.025 --> 00:41:56.967
Your people make less excuses Going back to that conditioning word Once they know that Eric doesn't swallow, that it's not my fault anymore.

00:41:57.195 --> 00:42:03.858
Once they hear there's a lot of stuff that's not our fault, but it's still our responsibility, how are we going to get it done together, man, once they hear that two, three times?

00:42:03.858 --> 00:42:05.463
Some people are a little slower on the uptake.

00:42:05.463 --> 00:42:10.820
I respect that, but most people are going to stop using that excuse and that means what they're going to do is something different.

00:42:10.820 --> 00:42:18.324
Maybe it's a different excuse, but maybe, just maybe, they'll actually have taken responsibility and accomplished the thing, or come to you seeking help ahead of time, and both of those are wins.

00:42:18.324 --> 00:42:20.121
So that's the playbook for excuses.

00:42:20.121 --> 00:42:20.918
Do you again?

00:42:20.918 --> 00:42:22.063
You run a growing business, brian.

00:42:22.063 --> 00:42:24.355
Which one of those do you hear most commonly in your world?

00:42:24.355 --> 00:42:28.603
You don't have to throw it a bit under the bus publicly, but what one jumps out at you as I listed them off.

00:42:28.976 --> 00:42:30.161
Yeah, for sure, and it's.

00:42:30.161 --> 00:42:48.396
It's funny because it's not just internally with teams, but I'm also going to throw clients in here, so it could be anyone in my ecosystem, but it is for sure that one of oh, it's not my fault, it's, it's just that lack of and it's funny because to me that's the most traditional use of how I talk about a lack of accountability is it's not my fault, it's yours.

00:42:48.396 --> 00:42:54.085
And and you're right, it's that, that very simple line that you just looks like you just pull it out of your back pocket.

00:42:54.085 --> 00:42:57.940
It's always ready right there, which is well, yeah, maybe it's not your fault, but it's your responsibility.

00:42:57.940 --> 00:43:03.824
That I think, as someone who grew up, soccer was a big part of my life, being a team captain, like I learned as a captain.

00:43:03.824 --> 00:43:07.675
Gosh, the coach would always say to me like hey, why are these kids late to practice?

00:43:07.675 --> 00:43:12.199
And it's like I wasn't late, it's them that was late, but it's like I was late.

00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:13.503
I don't know, and I'm not my fault.

00:43:13.875 --> 00:43:21.574
Yeah, and so I think it's such an important aspect of accountability that, yeah, it is, it's who cares whose fault it is Like.

00:43:21.574 --> 00:43:23.762
Let's take responsibility for it and move forward together.

00:43:23.762 --> 00:43:25.815
So I love those perspectives, eric.

00:43:25.815 --> 00:43:28.952
I'll tell you what a lot of listeners are going to say I want more, eric.

00:43:28.952 --> 00:43:31.983
And they're going to know as well as I do that we're running out of time here today.

00:43:31.983 --> 00:43:33.197
There's only so much we can cover.

00:43:33.197 --> 00:43:43.376
But listeners, that's why Eric has all of these resources his free ebook we're going to drop that link on you in just a second His Academy, the language of leadership system.

00:43:43.376 --> 00:43:46.262
You are able to get inside of all of this stuff.

00:43:46.603 --> 00:43:51.978
Eric's knowledge is not confined to a 40 minute podcast episode, so we'll talk about all that in a second.

00:43:51.978 --> 00:43:53.824
But, eric, it is tradition here on the show.

00:43:53.824 --> 00:43:58.246
I always ask my guests what's that one takeaway you want for listeners from today's session?

00:43:58.246 --> 00:43:59.740
We talked about so many things.

00:43:59.740 --> 00:44:03.603
It's for sure going down as one of my favorite episodes in podcast history.

00:44:03.603 --> 00:44:04.896
I've never said that on the air.

00:44:04.896 --> 00:44:08.856
You're the first time I've ever confessed that here on the air 800 plus episodes.

00:44:08.856 --> 00:44:11.445
But with that in mind, eric, what's that one takeaway?

00:44:11.445 --> 00:44:17.722
What do you want everyone to walk away from today's session and say you know what I'm going to start doing or thinking about this one thing.

00:44:19.219 --> 00:44:23.657
Well, I'm bad at following instructions and that's why I'm a good entrepreneur, so I'm actually going to give you two.

00:44:23.657 --> 00:44:25.141
Sorry, I just think it's too important.

00:44:25.141 --> 00:44:31.938
Number one most valuable takeaway you hear when you say one thing today get your people to tell you what they're going to do.

00:44:31.938 --> 00:44:34.748
Stop telling them what they need to do.

00:44:34.748 --> 00:44:45.393
You might need to help them learn how to do it, or tell them what the steps are to do it, or tell them when the boss needs it or whatever it is, but until they say it back to you, it's not real.

00:44:45.393 --> 00:44:46.577
You can't hold them accountable to.

00:44:46.577 --> 00:44:48.007
You have no idea what they heard.

00:44:48.007 --> 00:44:52.768
And that will be the most subtle and most powerful change you could possibly make taking coming out of today.

00:44:52.768 --> 00:44:53.556
So that's number one.

00:44:54.358 --> 00:44:56.425
Number two leadership is a skill.

00:44:56.425 --> 00:45:00.958
That's great news because that means you can practice it to get better.

00:45:00.958 --> 00:45:04.346
You are not born an awesome leader or a terrible leader.

00:45:04.346 --> 00:45:07.199
You can lead from any position in the building.

00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:12.621
You can lead in 360 degrees your bosses, your peers, your peers, employees, your board.

00:45:12.621 --> 00:45:20.335
You can hold people accountable in 360 degrees in your life if you have the right amount of skill, and that's what my entire business does.

00:45:20.376 --> 00:45:21.784
It helps leaders not just know things.

00:45:21.784 --> 00:45:24.076
Knowledge is cool, but look, knowledge is free.

00:45:24.076 --> 00:45:27.384
You can get it on iPhone and chat, GPT and Google and YouTube.

00:45:27.384 --> 00:45:32.686
All you want Skill is what's going to get you that 360 degrees of accountability in that next level in life.

00:45:32.686 --> 00:45:35.684
So takeaway number one get them to tell you what they're going to do.

00:45:35.684 --> 00:45:38.201
It'll make your life so much easier and they'll get better at their job fast.

00:45:38.201 --> 00:45:40.318
And number two leadership is a skill.

00:45:40.318 --> 00:45:45.300
Being able to do all of these things and do them well will be a function of how much time you'll spend practicing.

00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:49.567
So check out some of the links, resources, courses, webinars, all the things Brian's going to share.

00:45:49.567 --> 00:45:52.282
I've got a lot of opportunities for people to come develop skill with us.

00:45:52.844 --> 00:45:53.266
Boom.

00:45:53.266 --> 00:45:53.969
I love that.

00:45:53.969 --> 00:45:55.780
You're making my job easy here today, eric.

00:45:55.780 --> 00:45:57.068
Yeah, tease some of those links.

00:45:57.068 --> 00:46:02.396
Obviously, we're going to put them down in the show notes section, but tell listeners where they should go and why they should go there.

00:46:03.298 --> 00:46:04.000
Yeah, absolutely so.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:12.025
Check out my website, the language of leadershipio no, I started to say it that way wwwlanguageofleadershipio.

00:46:12.025 --> 00:46:15.889
When you go there, you'll see my free course, the first two modules of my course called the language of leadership.

00:46:15.889 --> 00:46:17.739
You'll also see a paid version of the course.

00:46:17.739 --> 00:46:19.387
That's the entire five modules.

00:46:19.387 --> 00:46:32.940
The React framework is in there, as I laid out, expectation setting, accountability, conflict turnaround and trust and motivation are in what I call the rules of engagement, so you'll see an opportunity to take those and learn what tool sets are available to you.

00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:36.757
There's also a free ebook the big four excuses Can't recommend enough.

00:46:36.757 --> 00:46:38.505
Pull that thing out, read it once.

00:46:38.505 --> 00:46:39.592
It's like 17 pages.

00:46:39.592 --> 00:46:42.260
It'll lay out the framework for why excuses exist.

00:46:42.260 --> 00:46:48.443
You make them two and that'll make it easier for you to handle them, and then you'll have a cheat sheet to know how to address these things and start reducing the thumbs that they happen.

00:46:48.483 --> 00:46:51.438
But where all this meets the road is when people join the academy.

00:46:51.438 --> 00:46:54.612
That's where people come to practice leadership.

00:46:54.612 --> 00:47:03.376
That means back to those role playing skills that Brian and I got at a young age because we were nerdy high schoolers who didn't have better things to do, apparently, other than talk about role play through business.

00:47:03.376 --> 00:47:10.208
You can come and do that and so every other week for an hour people join my academy and they come to a group zoom call.

00:47:10.208 --> 00:47:13.503
I lead them all and people practice using these skills.

00:47:13.623 --> 00:47:18.682
That means you'd role play in a breakout room holding somebody accountable, and I promise you it feels uncomfortable the first few times.

00:47:18.682 --> 00:47:23.206
That's why you don't do it in real life, that's why you let the person slide, because it feels uncomfortable.

00:47:23.206 --> 00:47:38.682
But once you practice it a few times, once you've said it a few times and you've had me or somebody else be a little spicy or difficult back or maybe really easy, depending on the person you're pretending to work with you won't be afraid of it anymore and you'll have skill and that skill you'll use for the rest of your career.

00:47:38.682 --> 00:47:45.809
So go to the website, check out the free course, check out the paid course, check out the ebook, but, most importantly, come practice in the academy.

00:47:45.809 --> 00:47:49.097
You can check out a webinar where I'll share all of this in a slightly different format.

00:47:49.097 --> 00:47:51.036
There's a few links that you can do to register for those.

00:47:51.036 --> 00:47:57.463
We'll share all of that, but there's plenty of resources for you to jump into and start putting to use so that you can start to hold people accountable.

00:47:58.096 --> 00:48:00.065
Yes, listeners, you already know the drill.

00:48:00.065 --> 00:48:05.222
We are dropping all of those links down below in the show notes, wherever it is that you're tuning into today's episode.

00:48:05.222 --> 00:48:13.362
So a wealth of goodies to go in there and, as Eric said, what's better than investing in something that you will carry with you for life?

00:48:13.362 --> 00:48:14.626
It's not a thing, gosh.

00:48:14.626 --> 00:48:20.436
As someone who doesn't like things, eric, I love the fact that you are implanting goodness into the way that we show up in the world.

00:48:20.436 --> 00:48:22.481
So incredible resources there.

00:48:22.481 --> 00:48:33.050
Listeners check those show notes and, eric, on behalf of myself and all the listeners worldwide, thanks so much for being so generous and insightful with all of these things you shared with us here today on the show.

00:48:33.070 --> 00:48:34.878
Thanks for having me.

00:48:34.878 --> 00:48:35.503
This has been awesome.

00:48:35.503 --> 00:48:36.327
Great question, then.

00:48:36.327 --> 00:48:38.458
I look forward to whatever this Saturday thing is with you.

00:48:40.706 --> 00:48:46.291
Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wontrapener to entrepreneur podcast.

00:48:46.291 --> 00:48:50.266
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:48:50.266 --> 00:48:59.768
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrapenershowcom, and I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:48:59.768 --> 00:49:08.259
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:49:08.298 --> 00:49:10.306
These are not sponsored episodes.

00:49:10.306 --> 00:49:11.914
These are not infomercials.

00:49:11.914 --> 00:49:15.268
Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.

00:49:15.268 --> 00:49:26.347
They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome Wontrapeners and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.

00:49:26.347 --> 00:49:34.842
So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.

00:49:34.842 --> 00:49:36.186
We also have live chat.

00:49:36.186 --> 00:49:40.782
If you want to interact directly with me, go to thewantrapenershowcom.

00:49:40.782 --> 00:49:42.226
Initiate a live chat.

00:49:42.226 --> 00:49:51.626
It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wontrapener to entrepreneur podcast.