881: MASTERING the art of international (and regional) business growth w/ Gilles Vanpoucke

WEBVTT

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and I'll tell you what.

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We have got an absolutely brilliant entrepreneur here on today's episode, because this is someone with such a diverse background when it comes to a lot of things growth and business oriented.

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We are going to learn so much from him today.

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Whether you are thinking about expanding internationally or you're just thinking about what are the strategic questions that I should even consider when it comes to business growth, we're all going to learn from today's expert.

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His name is Gilles Van Pucke.

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Gilles is originally from Belgium.

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He started his career in the banking industry where he was born, in Belgium.

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Gilles then pursued a career in the industry he likes most architecture and design and I'll tell you what in almost 900 episodes, I've found that people who come from the architecture world they have a different way of seeing things.

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They have such a strategic and foundational view of growth, so I'm really excited to tap into that part of his story.

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In 2010, he became export manager within Europe for a Belgian-based manufacturer of high-end building material Rensen is the company name and in 2012, he started their North American subsidiary from the ground up.

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This company grew to become a market leader in North America, with a local production facility in Dallas and a showroom in Manhattan, new York, and Gilles' work there actually has been featured as a case study in growth strategies in a book that was published called Make it in America, which is by Matthew Lee Sawyer.

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So Gilles' growth strategies are really looked at as a model of how we can assess this.

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Learning from his experience, he started GVP Global Advisor, which is a company that helps Belgian businesses start up in North America and vice versa.

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Gilles is an ambassador for BellChem and a board member of BellWest, both of which are Belgian-American chambers of commerce.

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I'm personally very excited about today's episode, so I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Gilles Van Pooka.

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All right, gilles, I am so excited that you're here with us.

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Welcome to the show.

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Thank you so much, brian.

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I'm super excited as well, thank you so much, and thank you for pronouncing my name correctly.

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I'm doing my best, Gilles.

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Honestly, it's such an important thing for me because I think that names, even something as simple as that, reveals so much about our background and you and I were joking around before we hit record about, you know, the Flemish inspiration and the pronunciation of your name.

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So I think it makes you you Gilles, and I'm excited to hear your backstory.

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Well, I wanted to make it difficult for me to move to the US.

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She gave me a Flemish last name and a French first name, so not that easy for American people sometimes to pronounce.

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But thank you very much.

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Perfect, I will say as a tennis fan.

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At least.

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Gilles is a name that we see quite frequently on the tennis circuit.

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So that helps gill on that topic.

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Take us beyond the bio.

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Who the heck is gill?

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How'd you start doing all these incredible things that I love tooting your horn for?

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uh, thank you.

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So, yeah, so you already uh said by a little bit, like, uh, I indeed started here or came over to the us 12 years ago, um, for, for, for ransom, as a belgian company who didn't really didn't have anything yet in the us, um, and, and along the way, I started to realize, like, wait a minute, um, what I'm learning now and the expertise that I have and the things we did wrong right, the things that we did wrong um, we should share this with people, or I should share this with people.

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So, in that sense that I I started the gbp global advisor where I basically try to save companies, uh, time, energy and money, right, uh, like I said, the first year, two years, we, we really tried to do copy paste what's how business was done in europe, because we thought we knew right.

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So we thought we looked at the us that it was the same thing as in europe, but really it's not.

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You can't really not copy based your europe, european strategy here in the US.

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It's a completely different animal, I would say, and in that sense also, I see so many companies who are just doing an export strategy to the US, the companies coming from Europe, for example, that really do.

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Like I said, the copy-paste strategy from Europe.

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It doesn't work.

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You have to adjust to the markets, but also the market deserves that.

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The US market deserves that.

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It's its own entity.

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So in that sense, that's the reason why I started GVB Global Advisor to really prevent people to have to go to those growing pains and waste that time, energy and money, like I already mentioned, and that's the reason why I'm doing what I'm doing today.

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Yeah, I love that overview and I really love the way you articulated that, because in my head I'm just like you already framed the episode, jill, which is this is really going to be the anti-copy-paste episode, because I think people hope to copy-paste in every regard of business.

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They hope that, hey, what's a winning Facebook ad headline that you've been using and they just want to copy and paste that.

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But nothing in business or life works that way.

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So I'd love to hear some of those considerations, because you talk about copying and pasting when you first started out of let's do it the way we did it in Belgium, let's do that here in the United States.

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But what were some of those early considerations?

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Because a lot of people are going to jump to the obvious ones of well, of course it's different languages, it's different consumers, it's different buying power, but tell us some of the real considerations that you learned, right?

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I think it's also carefully select your product range, right.

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So I think in Europe, for example, we want to come to the US market with the same product range that we have in Europe, but it's not always the same thing and the way that people build, not even in the US.

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You have different states that also have different cultures and buildings.

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So I'm coming from the architectural design industry, right.

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So carefully stick to your products.

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It should be something that is normal that people would consider.

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Okay, of course I have to adjust my product range, but it's really not that common.

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People just try to choose the same product range and it's not always the best fit for the market.

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So really do your homework there.

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So localize your products, localize your technical information, manuals and marketing materials.

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It all sounds so normal to do that and a step that everybody should think of from the beginning, but you would be surprised how little people would do that.

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And then that's something that's nothing to do with product, but more on an HR level.

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For example, people are employees and the dynamic employee employer between the US and Europe are very, very different.

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What I see here, for example, that the expectations you create to your employer or employee I'm sorry has to be much more aligned and much more have to be defined.

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You have to set your expectations much more correctly.

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People don't do something mostly out of their job description, where in Europe it's very common to do things out of your job description, very far away from your job's description sometimes, and that creates a lot of tension sometimes within a European employer and their US employee because they don't are on the same page on what the expectations are right.

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So that's very important also on HR level.

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So there's many, many topics or many, many differences that you shouldn't copy paste, but those are two that are come to mind immediately.

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Yeah, and when you say that it sounds normal of course everybody should be doing this I feel like the kind of the elephant in the room there that most people don't do is that foundational element, which is you can't adjust to the market if you don't understand the market.

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So I'd love to go into your philosophy and your analytical brain, into how do you even begin to understand a market?

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What does market research look like?

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I feel like it's a term we throw out so frequently, but walk us down that road.

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Well, homework, homework, homework.

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Do your homework.

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Don't be scared to do your homework.

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Push your launch out several months if you're not ready.

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I'm not saying you have to be 100% ready, because you'll never be.

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You always have to learn throughout the process.

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But again, it's also one thing that I see so much that people just don't do their homework enough.

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They just come to the markets Again, they think it's very similar.

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It's still the Western world, so the people look similar.

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So let's just come to the markets.

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Again, they think it's very similar.

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It's still the Western world, so the people look similar.

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So let's just go to this market, but it's really not the same thing.

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So it's very important to talk to stakeholders, to talk to peers in the industry.

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Do your discovery trips, do your questionnaires with companies and get that feedback.

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From what is the market really asking for?

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It's not because you're having something in hand that that's exactly what the market is asking for.

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Just be open to be flexible, be open to adjust, but for that you have to do your homework, and I can't emphasize that enough.

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Doing your homework is so important.

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Yeah, gilles, it's funny.

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I didn't anticipate asking you this question here today, but I'm quickly realizing how much of a dichotomy that we're kind of doing this dance around here today, where part of our conversation is around fitting into a market when we talk about coming to the american market.

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But part of it, I would imagine, is that you have a little bit of an unfair advantage that you don't fit in.

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You do bring some such a diverse and different background to it.

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Talk to us about that balance, and is that an intentional part of the strategy?

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Is that you do see the world a little bit differently?

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I love that question, brian, by the way.

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So I always say for European companies and I will just use Belgium now as an example be proud to be Belgian, right, always be proud to be Belgian, be proud of what we bring as innovation, of what we bring as, especially in the architectural design markets.

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I think Belgium is one of the really design destinations in the world right now.

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Everybody thinks mostly about, sometimes, italy and Germany.

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If you think about geographically, we're between those two countries, so germany is maybe the more um, let's say, sturdy products very well, the engineers very well.

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Uh, mates, where italy is more design driven and we're smack in the middle of those two countries, right, so we can bring both of those things to the market.

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So be proud of that.

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But please, americanize where it's needed, and that's that's one of the things that I always, um, give advice to all the companies that I work with.

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Uh, it's, it's needed, and that's one of the things that I always give advice to all the companies that I work with.

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It's very good to be proud to be Belgian, because the market is open for new ideas.

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So that's an advantage of being foreign, right, that's an advantage in that sense.

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I'm not saying that for every market, but definitely in architectural design, it's an advantage to bring something high quality, nicely designed, and use that Belgian as almost like a flag to go into your meeting, but show that you're adjusting yourself to the US market.

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And that starts, for example, to again like I already mentioned not seeing the US as an export country, really seeing the US as its own entity.

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So I think it's one of the things that I immediately say if you come to the US, if you're not ready to do this, don't come to the US, but you have to establish a US business entity and have a presence in the market to build your own brand, to witness yourself.

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You have to be here with your own entity, otherwise don't come.

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Yeah, gilles, really well said, and I love the fact that you articulated you know, fly that flag with pride, whether it's a belgian flag or I'm gonna call out the chocolate industry, for example, because this is an example that we all know is that if you are a swiss chocolate, that is one of your differentiators in whatever market that you enter, and we place a premium on swiss chocolate, even here in the united states.

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better, all right I will send you, I will save you a box.

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I will save you a box I appreciate, then I won't confess to you that I've had it in Brussels and Antwerp.

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I will take you up on that offer, gilles but I think it's important when we think about other countries, colombian coffee, for example.

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They want to use that as a differentiator.

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So I think that that does promote so many different opportunity areas.

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It also leads me to believe, gill, that you probably have a more intentional view of the american marketplace because you had to study it, because someone like me, who I grew up in the american marketplace, I just know our customs.

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Whereas you talk about coming to the american market, you say it like it's its own thing, whereas for me it's just it's the market that I'm used to talk.

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Talk to me about what that means to you.

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What is the American market?

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What do your eyes look at?

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Well, I think, first of all the American markets.

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The American markets, same as the American person, doesn't exist.

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You have so many differences.

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It's geographically also so far away from each other.

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I also compare it mostly like in Europe you're not going to start doing business at the same time in Finland and Portugal You're not going to do that.

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So also for the US, I think it's very important to start and basically select the beachhead market, to penetrate the US market to start with.

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I think it's just not possible especially not in the market that I'm talking about, about architectural design to immediately cover all of the US, because these differences Los Angeles you're in Florida New York, boston where you grew up, seattle they're all completely different markets.

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So you will not be able to fully understand these markets if you're going to try to tackle them all from the beginning.

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So for me it's very important to select the beachhead markets and the Rensselaer example that was Los Angeles, california to begin with, very understand the market there and then try to not really say copy-paste on your strategy there, but really use the things that worked.

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Go to the other market but again be open about what are the differences here?

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What are the differences culturally?

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What are the differences culturally, how our things are built.

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So you cannot do a copy-based approach, not even from Europe to the US, but also not even within the US, from market to market.

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So that's also very important to understand, I think.

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So creating that beachhead market when you start with a new product or a new concept, I think is very important, why, also, if you immediately start a nationwide approach, there's no room to adjust yourself anymore.

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That's it.

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You started nationwide.

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If you started locally more centralized, it's much more easy to adjust to the limits needed and then you can take those things that you learned and to the other markets.

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Yeah, really important points that you're making for us.

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Jill, you're making my mind think a lot, because, calling out how big the United States is and how diverse each and every single one of those markets even look at you and I have both lived in Los Angeles with the coffee shops that exist on Abbott Kinney in Venice Beach.

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Those are radically different than what we're seeing in the very new urban type of Culver City coffee shops that we're seeing, yeah, and so I think, even something within a company like Starbucks, what I see when I open the Starbucks app here in Florida is very different messaging and promotions and images than what you'd see in Seattle Washington, with different seasons, different weather, different types of speech, the way we all talk.

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So I love that you've illustrated that.

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I also want to tap into the architectural part of your brain, because when we talk about the building blocks of a business, for example, there's so many cogs inside a business machine.

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There's marketing, there's messaging, there's branding, there's sales process, there's pricing, the products, the services, all of those things.

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For you, when you talk about localizing a business, helping european brands come to the united states, what are those foundational elements that you look at?

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Is this a branding question is this a messaging question?

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Obviously it's everything, but what composes everything for you?

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yeah, um, I.

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I think it's indeed like branding and messaging goes goes hand in hand.

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Of course, right, but I think that's the one key thing, especially in our market or industry that brand awareness you have to create yourself.

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Create yourself means of course you can do that with a PR office, and I think that's the biggest step that European companies have to take in the US, where they're not used to that.

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In Europe and Europe usually these type of brands that the companies I worked for are already well-established brands and their home markets, but they're geographically very small, so it's very easy to grow.

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If they sponsor, for example, the local soccer team, the local cycling team, they're already known in the markets and they sometimes think that it's also going to be the same way in the US.

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Oh, we are known in Europe, so people will know we're in the US.

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It's not the case.

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So that's why I think it's very important to create that brand awareness yourself and you have to have people that put on the grounds of your company here yourself.

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You cannot do that with partners, you cannot do that with distributors.

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You have to really have your own presence.

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But working together with a PR office is, for me, key in that sense to really work out a strong message.

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Again, if you start in Los Angeles, that message like you mentioned yourself with the example of Starbucks can be different than the message in Florida.

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But work together with people that are local, be open to adjust your message, also from Europe, but really again, americanize that message that comes back to that right.

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Like I said already, be proud to be Belgian, but Americanize where your software is needed.

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I think that's very much an area where you have to adjust your way of doing business and working with a PR office.

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I know it's very common in the US.

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It's very not in Europe.

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So I think that's one of the things that I always push people to do immediately as I get a good PR office, somebody you're comfortable with because they're really going to make it or break it for you in the US.

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Yeah, gilles, it's fun hearing you talk about this stuff because I feel like you have a builder's mindset.

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Gilles, it's fun hearing you talk about this stuff because I feel like you have a builder's mindset.

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It sounds like it's in your DNA from your past experiences, whereas I would argue that the mindset fault that a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners have is that they think that things happen in a moment.

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So when we talk about going to market, they think that you're in the market and a launch happens and that's it and hey, we're here, whereas hearing you talk about these strategic building components of this is that it is a process and you talk about a PR agency.

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What does that look like?

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I guess I'm inviting you to speak directly to those people who think that these things happen in moments.

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What are kind of the milestones?

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What's that timeline look like for you as someone who's helped bring actual flourishing, successful brands to the united states?

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What's that actually look like in a process?

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well, I think I think you're worded very well like um, I'm I'm always um making sure that people do the right steps.

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So those building blocks you're mentioning, right, um, I think you really need to take it step by step and, um, especially if you're not in the market already, I think you really need to take it step by step and especially if you're not in the market already, I think sometimes if you're already a us entrepreneur, um, some of these things come to you more organically and automatically.

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So you can I'm not going to say you don't, you skip steps, but basically you take steps already.

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That's another european company doesn't have to think about, because it's something you've already done.

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But but, for example, like I said at homework, you really need to take, I feel, like a year to really prepare yourself for this market.

00:18:50.712 --> 00:18:52.156
And that's really what we had to do.

00:18:52.156 --> 00:19:00.794
I came here to the US I was 24 years old for a very big Belgian company, very successful in Belgium, the company Renssel.

00:19:00.794 --> 00:19:10.079
But the first year we thought we could just do what we were doing in Europe and then we really pretty quickly realized that was not the case.

00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:15.901
So it really took us a year, year and a half, to really understand the market first, but also prepare ourselves.

00:19:15.901 --> 00:19:23.371
Again, americanized our product range, and I don't mean only the products itself, but the way we talked about it.

00:19:23.371 --> 00:19:29.567
The technical information, even manuals, sounds so easy to do, but uh, um, but you have to think about it.

00:19:29.567 --> 00:19:31.134
And now the marketing material.

00:19:31.134 --> 00:19:43.215
So for me it's really took us a year, year and a half to really do that, to that homework, groundwork, and that was even me being here on the market, really being full-time doing that, um, so for me that's the.

00:19:43.256 --> 00:19:49.442
I think, think that that's that's more or less the timeframe it takes you to before you really can launch something and really take that time too.

00:19:49.442 --> 00:19:58.920
Again, I already mentioned I would prefer that you, that you push the launch two or three months out instead of doing it, at least not 80%.

00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:00.002
That's a little bit my rule.

00:20:00.002 --> 00:20:05.500
If something is 80% there where you want it to be, then I think it's ready to launch.

00:20:05.500 --> 00:20:11.416
But you also have to be asking yourself critically am I there 80%?

00:20:11.416 --> 00:20:15.638
Because I think a lot of people think sometimes they are there somewhere 80%, but they're very much not.

00:20:16.309 --> 00:20:17.335
And how can you get that?

00:20:17.335 --> 00:20:22.989
I think it's just getting information from the market, talk to people, stakeholders.

00:20:22.989 --> 00:20:24.856
Already that you maybe already have a relationship with.

00:20:24.856 --> 00:20:30.021
Dare to ask them what they think about it, but take that feedback into consideration.

00:20:30.021 --> 00:20:34.675
Talk to potential distributors, talk to potential dealers.

00:20:34.675 --> 00:20:39.632
Don't be scared to talk to people in the industry Most people.

00:20:39.632 --> 00:21:04.031
If you come with something innovative, something that can help them in the future, they will will more than happy to help you, because I think as an entrepreneur, we are a lot of times stuck in our mindset and if we're not talking to other people getting other inputs, we can sometimes really get more stuck than we want to be in that mindset and that way you're going to probably launch something that is not at that 80% mark.

00:21:04.913 --> 00:21:17.758
Yeah, I think that that revelation that you just shared with us here in real time on this show today is the 80% mindset, because I think that it reveals part of your processes there's always 100% doesn't exist.

00:21:17.758 --> 00:21:27.238
There's always going to be a 20% that we will only ever figure out by being in it and by doing the thing, and I think that the 80% rule I'm going to give you full credit for that, jill.

00:21:27.238 --> 00:21:30.271
I think that that's an absolutely brilliant entrepreneurial mindset.

00:21:30.271 --> 00:21:32.439
I think it speaks to the way that you think about these things.

00:21:32.439 --> 00:21:35.817
I also want to go a little bit deeper because, again, I just I love picking.

00:21:35.836 --> 00:21:42.817
You're only the third person in this show's history and almost 900 episodes that comes from an architectural background, and I love that that's.

00:21:42.817 --> 00:21:46.560
Your focus is on that architectural design, product manufacturing space.

00:21:46.560 --> 00:21:56.419
With that in mind, those are typically I want to I'm going to throw it a little bit under the bus, jill a little bit of an archaic industry and that things have always been done the way that they've been done.

00:21:56.419 --> 00:22:00.976
What are some of those special considerations, since you are a specialist in that domain?

00:22:02.157 --> 00:22:03.000
Well, I think it's.

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:11.768
You have to see, of course, how I can look at the market to the US commodity market, right, that's flooded with commodity products.

00:22:11.768 --> 00:22:22.477
So, coming here to the market with something innovative, um, um, and usually high ends, if I may say that, um, you, you cannot go to that commodity market.

00:22:22.477 --> 00:22:24.583
So I see that that's what I try to push.

00:22:24.583 --> 00:22:44.519
Also, the companies that come to the us market, or european companies, but even american companies, if you really want to make a difference and you have something innovative and design driven, please go after that high-end market, follow the money a little bit, right, because at the end of the day, the commodity markets or or, or the mid-range market is also a market where people move a lot usually.

00:22:44.519 --> 00:23:04.650
So they they care a little bit less about the look and feel, about the building that they're living, um, but that high-end residential, that's where you can make a difference, not only residential but also boutique hotels, for example, but really where you as a design product can make a difference in and follow that money.

00:23:04.650 --> 00:23:06.477
Like I already mentioned, that's very important.

00:23:06.477 --> 00:23:07.921
Go after those markets.

00:23:07.941 --> 00:23:13.180
So, also, if you talk to stakeholders, for example, I see a lot of companies that go after architects.

00:23:13.180 --> 00:23:18.388
They have a business development manager and they go after architects to specify their products.

00:23:18.388 --> 00:23:25.423
But they go after architects every range of the spectrum of architects and every architect is a very nice person usually.

00:23:25.423 --> 00:23:26.893
So they're always going to say, oh, nice product.

00:23:26.893 --> 00:23:37.160
But at the end of the day, if you talk to an architect that there's only schools, right, but you have a high-end architectural residential product, they're not going to work with that.

00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:40.481
So for me it's also very important in that sense to work with curated lists.

00:23:40.481 --> 00:23:42.142
That's a word that I like to use a lot.

00:23:42.142 --> 00:23:51.843
But if you go after stakeholders, if you go after people that can work with your product, can specify your product, make sure you work of a curated list.

00:23:51.843 --> 00:23:53.320
So also put your homework in that.

00:23:53.320 --> 00:24:01.244
Make sure that you don't waste time to go after people that cannot, from the beginning, even work with your product.

00:24:01.265 --> 00:24:02.269
So I think that's very important as well.

00:24:02.269 --> 00:24:11.181
Yeah, gilles, really well said on so many different fronts there, and I think that your point to market segmentation and picking what corner of the market you want to play in it's incredibly important.

00:24:11.181 --> 00:24:15.169
I immediately thought, even hearing you I mean an example that you used is hotels.

00:24:15.169 --> 00:24:19.097
I think about my favorite hotel chain worldwide is Citizen M.

00:24:19.097 --> 00:24:40.759
As a solo traveler a lot and someone who works remotely, citizen M, no matter where you are in the world, in the cities that they are, they have the coolest hotels and I would urge anyone that, if you want to see a really unique concept that comes from I think it's actually a Dutch based hotel chain and Citizen M does such an incredibly strategic approach to what cities they even operate in.

00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:48.317
I think here in the US they're probably in Miami, they're in Los Angeles, they're in New York there's only a few places because they know this is where this concept works.

00:24:48.317 --> 00:24:50.542
Let's nail it and let's expand worldwide.

00:24:50.542 --> 00:24:52.227
So I think that's really powerful.

00:24:57.075 --> 00:24:57.435
I like that.

00:24:57.435 --> 00:24:58.919
You said market segmentation, because that's something that I first.

00:24:58.919 --> 00:25:02.528
There's two things that I push on a lot at the beginning Make sure you have your client profiles right.

00:25:02.528 --> 00:25:07.352
Make sure you know who you're selling to, who has that client profile.

00:25:07.352 --> 00:25:13.068
Draw it up, even have it on your whiteboard so somebody that you mean to sell to.

00:25:13.068 --> 00:25:21.267
It's going to be so much easier also to voice your message to those people if you can put a face on it almost.

00:25:21.634 --> 00:25:29.880
But also market segmentation is incredibly important and I think even it's not only about companies that come into the US, but also American companies.

00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:32.622
I see it often they don't really nail that down yet.

00:25:32.622 --> 00:25:44.134
Take the time to sit down with the people in your company to really get a good understanding which market segmentation there are, which product can we push and which market segmentation.

00:25:44.134 --> 00:25:55.185
Because you're going to focus so much more, You're going to narrow down so much more your resources, because that's, I think, one of the biggest disadvantages of the US market, because it's so big.

00:25:55.185 --> 00:26:03.108
If you don't do that, you're going to lose resources very or going to waste resources very, very quickly if you don't focus.

00:26:03.108 --> 00:26:11.221
So by doing those two things client profiles and market segmentation you're going to be able to focus much better and use your resources much better.

00:26:11.221 --> 00:26:13.022
To focus much better and use your resources much better.

00:26:14.244 --> 00:26:27.998
Yeah, incredibly important insight and real strategic thought from you here for us, gilles, which I really appreciate, and I also know you are very actively involved, of course, still in the European markets.

00:26:27.998 --> 00:26:31.471
So I can't have you on and not talk about the vice versa side of this equation, knowing that 80% of our listeners are right.

00:26:31.471 --> 00:26:43.545
Here in the United States, I know that a lot of people, any traveler I'm going to call this example out any traveler knows that American fast food when you go overseas is not the same American fast food that we know.

00:26:43.545 --> 00:26:49.442
Mcdonald's I'm going to call out terrible product here in the United States, different product overseas.

00:26:49.442 --> 00:26:52.041
The restaurants are different, the food is different.

00:26:52.041 --> 00:26:52.984
It's incredibly different.

00:26:52.984 --> 00:26:54.820
They've adapted to that jill.

00:26:54.820 --> 00:27:00.460
If we're not at the mcdonald's level, what are some of those considerations going the other way from the atlantic?

00:27:01.442 --> 00:27:04.756
well, I think, I think it's fair, it's very much the same if you think about it.

00:27:04.756 --> 00:27:15.628
Like I already mentioned, um, I think of what american companies mostly do very well, if I see that's usually the bigger ones that come to the European market that they are not doing the same thing country by country.

00:27:15.628 --> 00:27:25.142
So between the Netherlands, belgium and France, you can go from the Netherlands to France through Belgium in an hour and a half and, like you already mentioned, the McDonald's.

00:27:25.142 --> 00:27:28.059
But okay, let's talk about other brands, for example, they're not going to do the same thing.

00:27:28.059 --> 00:27:30.583
Even stores are going to have a different look and feel.

00:27:30.583 --> 00:27:37.942
For example, let's say, fashion stores that are maybe American and France.

00:27:37.942 --> 00:27:40.134
They have a different look and feel than the Netherlands, for example.

00:27:40.134 --> 00:27:48.142
So they really understand that sometimes better, I think, than us Europeans that you really have to adjust to, again by client profile who am I selling to?

00:27:48.142 --> 00:27:56.288
What is the cultural difference in those countries and what can we do to really tackle them within a certain market?

00:27:56.355 --> 00:28:02.936
And I see a lot of American companies, for example, don't go to a certain country even to begin with.

00:28:02.936 --> 00:28:08.319
And it's the same thing, like I said, about going to the other way If you create your beach hit markets in the US.

00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:13.539
You don't start immediately all over the US, and that's the same thing that I think you have to do in Europe as well.

00:28:13.539 --> 00:28:21.969
Right, start maybe with one country, and I think, therefore, belgium is a very good example.

00:28:25.194 --> 00:28:41.307
You know, or you don't know for the listeners, that Belgium is a very multicultural country because we have a lot of Brussels as the capital of Europe, so we have a lot of presence of governmental, european governmental, also worldwide governmental buildings and also a lot of non-profits organizations are based out of Brussels.

00:28:41.307 --> 00:28:43.980
So walking in Brussels is walking in the world, right?

00:28:43.980 --> 00:29:06.681
So for me, brussels, or Belgium by itself, has a very good micro economy to test your products in, and I would urge companies that want to go to the US sorry, want to go to Europe to use Belgium as that beachhead market to really see, okay, what works in Belgium usually is going to work in almost every other country because it's so multicultural.

00:29:06.681 --> 00:29:08.701
So please contact me.

00:29:08.701 --> 00:29:16.885
I'm happy to help you to start up in Europe and use Belgium as your example market.

00:29:17.494 --> 00:29:24.720
Yeah, and I absolutely love the fact that you are here really promoting how much of a benefit that can be for so many different companies.

00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:30.648
Obviously, we're talking within the scope of today about you really niche down into that architectural and design product world.

00:29:30.648 --> 00:29:52.166
But these principles I feel like so much of our conversation keeps coming back to the foundational elements, the market research, the market segmentation, and you've got experience in all of these which, speaking of case studies, as Belgium being a great case study for so many different companies that want to expand into Europe I can't have you on and not ask you about the case study that you were featured inside of a book.

00:29:52.166 --> 00:29:53.838
I teased it at the top of today's episode.

00:29:53.838 --> 00:30:00.676
Obviously, you've alluded to some of the things that you've done with Renson and I'm sure that being boots on the ground physically here in the United States was a big part of that.

00:30:00.676 --> 00:30:01.982
Gilles, can you share?

00:30:01.982 --> 00:30:04.011
Was there some unconventional strategy?

00:30:04.011 --> 00:30:08.277
Was there one little teaser that you can give us as to what made the difference in that process?

00:30:08.277 --> 00:30:09.877
Yeah, sure.

00:30:09.958 --> 00:30:12.138
So the book that you're referring to is Make it in America.

00:30:12.138 --> 00:30:16.682
I want to definitely push everybody to read this book.

00:30:16.682 --> 00:30:31.690
It's from Matthew Lee Sawyer, who is a professor at both NYU and Columbia and also became a very good friend of mine how I helped Renssel start up in the US.

00:30:31.690 --> 00:30:37.313
But he has also a lot of other ones and that's the great thing about this book you can go back to it.

00:30:37.313 --> 00:30:56.862
You can say, okay, I read one chapter about one case study and go back to another one, but for me, indeed, if you talk about what are the key takeaways of the case study if I may just list them up maybe a little bit, I think again, you can definitely use them as also an American company who wants to start up also in the US.

00:30:56.862 --> 00:30:59.695
It's not only about European companies coming to the US.

00:30:59.695 --> 00:31:03.242
Besides, maybe the first one has really established that US business entity right.

00:31:03.242 --> 00:31:16.286
Have that presence here, have boots on the ground, not only to sell, but also to create confidence in the market, create confidence with partners, create confidence with stakeholders to really be here.

00:31:16.286 --> 00:31:20.161
But also because you have to build that brand awareness yourself as a new brand.

00:31:20.161 --> 00:31:23.289
You cannot rely, rely on other partners.

00:31:23.289 --> 00:31:25.799
I mean then dealers, for example, or distributors.

00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:35.305
I see a lot of belgian companies usually want to grow on the back of other people, which is okay to a certain point, but you also have to be here yourself to really keep pushing your brand yourself.

00:31:35.305 --> 00:31:44.557
Then, of course, carefully select your product range and localize your product range with technical information, manuals, marketing and, again, not all of your product will be a good fit.

00:31:44.557 --> 00:31:48.777
Really sit down with your product managers and think about, okay, which market?

00:31:48.777 --> 00:31:53.159
And again, for an American company who wants to go to another area in the US, really think about that.

00:31:53.159 --> 00:32:02.663
Don't just immediately think that your whole product range will fit in another market as well.

00:32:02.663 --> 00:32:05.755
I think really thinking about that will also make your research, using your resources, much more efficient.

00:32:05.755 --> 00:32:14.521
Right, the beachhead market I already mentioned now a couple of times I think is incredibly important, again for the same reason, for making sure that you use those researchers correctly.

00:32:15.103 --> 00:32:17.486
Uh, adjust your prices setting to the target market.

00:32:17.486 --> 00:32:20.836
Um, I will use your europe and the us.

00:32:20.836 --> 00:32:28.048
And again, and the buying power at the us is much higher than in europe, but also your costs of the us are going to be much higher.

00:32:28.048 --> 00:32:33.213
If you're coming from europe, you're probably going to still make stuff in europe, um, so your price setting will probably be higher.

00:32:33.213 --> 00:32:37.633
But also in the us, I see people using the same price strategy all over the market.

00:32:37.633 --> 00:32:38.154
I just know it.

00:32:38.154 --> 00:32:44.700
Sometimes I'm difficult now to use different ones, because you're, of course, having, uh, online platforms that show pricing.

00:32:45.321 --> 00:32:58.261
But if you have the capability, for example, that's that you're um, let's say, you have a factory in minnesota, right, but you're selling in a high-end residential market in California, maybe you can push your pricing a little bit.

00:32:58.261 --> 00:33:08.923
I think maybe I shouldn't say that very loud so that the end users wouldn't hear this, but maybe, if you can push your pricing, push your pricing If the markets can accept that pricing.

00:33:08.923 --> 00:33:16.268
Make sure that you can get your biggest margin that you can have without, of course, screwing over your customer.

00:33:16.268 --> 00:33:18.599
I don't say that at all, but look into that.

00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:24.921
Make sure that your price setting, your price setting is as as adjusted to your target market and maybe you can have a separate product.

00:33:24.921 --> 00:33:41.086
That's as better to work in, let's say, the Hamptons and and and Beverly Hills and Miami, and that you don't sell every somewhere else in in the country, which is still so more higher products that you can't put that higher price hitting on.

00:33:40.998 --> 00:33:43.844
Then also focus on the design, make decision makers and your target markets uh, like I already said, use with these created lists.

00:33:43.844 --> 00:33:47.209
Really think about okay, should I really meet with this person?

00:33:47.209 --> 00:33:48.656
I think it's very important.

00:33:48.656 --> 00:33:54.298
People are sometimes very happy just to have a meeting right, but is this meeting somebody that can bring something to me?

00:33:54.298 --> 00:34:00.078
Because, because that meeting is going to cost you time, effort, energy, um, make sure that you have a curated list to work off.

00:34:01.102 --> 00:34:13.164
And the last thing um, like I already mentioned from the beginning, be proud to be belgian but be proud to be whatever you are, whoever you are, but americanize yourself, uh, or adjust yourself, then, if I can say it that way, to the market that you want to be in.

00:34:13.164 --> 00:34:17.684
I think that's very important and in that sense, I am a proud Belgian-American.

00:34:17.684 --> 00:34:24.514
I became American last summer, but I'm still very much involved with the Belgian-American chambers of commerce.

00:34:24.514 --> 00:34:49.780
So you have Belgium on the East Coast and New York and you have Bell West and Los Angeles, and even for American entrepreneurs who want to be more involved with the European like I already said, with the European markets, and want to explore it, maybe it's a good idea for them also to become members with uh uh, with these organizations, because again I think really Belgium can be a gateway for them to to the European market yes, well, first things first.

00:34:49.820 --> 00:34:51.846
Congratulations, gilles, on becoming an American.

00:34:51.846 --> 00:34:57.494
That's such an exciting thing as someone who yeah, someone who comes from an immigrant family here to the United States.

00:34:57.494 --> 00:35:12.539
It's so deeply meaningful to me and I know that it's a long road to get there and that it takes persistence and a vision, and I absolutely love the fact that you represent both sides of your heritage and what you've become, because there is so much power in that immersion and in that diversity.

00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:13.601
So huge kudos to you.

00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:19.527
I have to say also the US was and it's going to sound so cliche for me, but I gave me 10 years.

00:35:19.527 --> 00:35:22.268
If I would be here 10 years, I want to really become American.

00:35:22.268 --> 00:35:30.851
I want to be more involved also in the US Because for me it was the land of opportunities.

00:35:30.851 --> 00:35:32.913
I know that sounds the most cliche thing that you can say, but it was really true.

00:35:32.913 --> 00:35:42.523
I would never have grown as a person or as a professional as much as I would have today at my age I am today, after being here now for 12 years.

00:35:42.523 --> 00:35:48.711
I would never have been there in my life if I hadn't moved to the US and had to adjust myself to the American way of living.

00:35:48.711 --> 00:35:51.884
But it really became the land of opportunities for me.

00:35:52.344 --> 00:35:54.632
It's a really big game that I love opportunities for me yeah.

00:35:56.514 --> 00:36:00.594
You're giving me chills down my legs and my arms because it's something that I've heard so much from my mom's family as they immigrated to the United States for that exact reason.

00:36:00.594 --> 00:36:02.041
So I absolutely love those insights.

00:36:02.041 --> 00:36:21.900
Jill, I'm going to publicly praise you here because in that last answer that you gave us, going into that case study featured in Make it In America by Matthew Lee Sawyer I love that, but when I hear you talk about these things, it's easy to think well, it's simple, but it's also strategic and intentional, and that's why I'm going to publicly say that I think you embody so much.

00:36:21.900 --> 00:36:26.128
It's my favorite Albert Einstein quote ever where he said that if you want to impress someone, make it complicated.

00:36:26.128 --> 00:36:28.496
If you want to help someone, make it simple.

00:36:28.677 --> 00:36:33.128
And, jill, so much of what you shared with us here today is really that simple the foundational elements.

00:36:33.128 --> 00:36:34.889
So huge kudos to you for that.

00:36:34.889 --> 00:36:37.490
But it also means I have no idea what direction you're going to take.

00:36:37.490 --> 00:36:41.152
This last question, and I love asking guests to see which direction they take it in.

00:36:41.152 --> 00:36:46.608
We talked about so many good and valuable and strategic things here today, but what's that one takeaway?

00:36:46.608 --> 00:36:52.164
What's the one thing for listeners who clearly have homework, homework, homework, as you said earlier in today's episode.

00:36:52.164 --> 00:36:54.268
What's that one thing you hope they walk away with?

00:36:55.896 --> 00:37:03.967
The one thing I hope they walk away with is indeed like okay, you already mentioned homework, but indeed take your time.

00:37:03.967 --> 00:37:08.092
Take your time to sit down, take your time to talk to the right people.

00:37:08.092 --> 00:37:11.094
Take your time to also talk within your company to the right people.

00:37:11.094 --> 00:37:19.092
Take your time to really work out a roadmap so that client profile, market segmentation, product overview, really create a roadmap.

00:37:19.092 --> 00:37:30.396
And I'm not saying that you have to do that, that has to be a big book of information that you write down no, that can even be a one pager but really start with that Making a roadmap, and that roadmap can be adjusted.

00:37:30.746 --> 00:37:34.010
I'm not saying that you have to work something out again, that that has to be 100% true.

00:37:34.010 --> 00:37:37.414
I'll correct already the 80% rule I already mentioned about.

00:37:37.414 --> 00:37:41.436
But do that roadmap and prepare yourself for it.

00:37:41.436 --> 00:37:48.554
And use people like me, for example, who can help you with that, who already done this many times and can simplify it for you.

00:37:48.554 --> 00:37:57.228
Because I really believe and I see that now with a lot of companies I work with the reason why they don't do it sometimes is because they're scared of all the work that they have to do it and they don't know how to start it, so they just start.

00:37:57.228 --> 00:38:03.909
They just start doing business sometimes because sometimes they're scared to ride out the roadmap because they don't have the answers.

00:38:03.909 --> 00:38:13.168
But it's okay to not have the answers and I think that's maybe the biggest takeaway it's okay not to have the answers but at least be open and be flexible to try to get them.

00:38:14.052 --> 00:38:15.376
Yes, I love that.

00:38:15.376 --> 00:38:21.532
I'm so glad that you tied it in with the 80% rule, because now I'm viewing it as Gilles' 80% roadmap.

00:38:21.532 --> 00:38:26.110
I think that's the roadmap we all need to complete, so really good takeaway from you here today.

00:38:26.110 --> 00:38:34.074
I also know that I think for so many reasons, it's probably very tempting and attractive for people to reach out and tap into your expertise, gilles.

00:38:34.074 --> 00:38:35.672
So drop those links on us.

00:38:35.672 --> 00:38:40.672
Where can listeners find out more about all the incredible work that you're up to with GVP Global Advisor?

00:38:41.686 --> 00:38:42.771
So you can find me on LinkedIn.

00:38:42.771 --> 00:38:44.911
I'm pretty active on LinkedIn.

00:38:44.911 --> 00:38:47.632
That's the easiest way to reach out to me.

00:38:47.632 --> 00:38:58.650
Then you have Bell West and Bell Gem, so you can find them on the web and, of course, also the book.

00:38:58.650 --> 00:39:01.594
I can definitely also on my LinkedIn.

00:39:01.594 --> 00:39:04.213
I will drop a link to the book where you can purchase it.

00:39:04.213 --> 00:39:07.434
So LinkedIn will be the way to reach out to me.

00:39:07.434 --> 00:39:10.811
But, brian, I also have a question for you, if that's okay.

00:39:10.811 --> 00:39:12.009
Hey, lay it on me.

00:39:12.009 --> 00:39:16.190
Gilles, you mentioned already that you've talked to 900 entrepreneurs.

00:39:16.190 --> 00:39:23.333
To start, you already talked to 900 entrepreneurs, and is there any one advice that comes back?

00:39:23.333 --> 00:39:25.887
A lot, or one advice that you say you know what?

00:39:25.887 --> 00:39:27.251
This is the one that always comes back.

00:39:27.251 --> 00:39:37.751
This is the one that everybody needs to know, because, of course, I also want to learn from you With all the experience and all the expertise that you build up.

00:39:37.751 --> 00:39:41.246
Now, after talking to all these people, is there one thing that always comes back that you say this is something that people have to remember?

00:39:41.746 --> 00:39:43.188
Yeah, it's, it's Jill.

00:39:43.188 --> 00:39:47.635
Thank you for asking me that Honestly, as a podcast host, I think this is maybe the very few.

00:39:47.635 --> 00:39:55.634
Less than five times a guest has asked me a question here on the air, and it's funny because I'm always having these conversations and I always ask this last question.

00:39:55.634 --> 00:39:59.987
So I hear that advice from so many different entrepreneurs and what always comes up is really.

00:39:59.987 --> 00:40:01.052
I'll put it into two buckets.

00:40:01.286 --> 00:40:14.900
One is just do it All the preparation in the world and I'm going to tie in your 80% rule because it fits in and it's a living example of there's a lot of ways we can articulate it, but it is the most profound advice.

00:40:14.900 --> 00:40:16.077
And then the second one is we're going to figure it out along the way.

00:40:16.077 --> 00:40:19.932
You can have the world's most perfect plan, and I'm sure that your architectural background supports this.

00:40:19.932 --> 00:40:25.273
You can have the world's most perfect plan, but when stormy weather rolls in, things are going to.

00:40:25.273 --> 00:40:29.166
It's like that, Mike Tyson quote everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

00:40:29.166 --> 00:40:46.210
And I think that those two things right there in some form of them, the different ways we can articulate them, that's what entrepreneurship and I'm going to expand that to life, that's what life is all about is take that action knowing full well that you're going to adjust your sales along the way, and it's always going to be that evolutionary process.

00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:52.239
So, jill, you've been an advocate for all of those pieces of advice, because you're living it as well perfect.

00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:54.992
Thank you so much, and I completely agree also with the last one.

00:40:54.992 --> 00:41:01.574
Like I think, also as an entrepreneur, sometimes something negative comes your way or something bad news comes your way.

00:41:01.574 --> 00:41:04.590
We, we tend to make it the biggest deal in the world, right.

00:41:04.590 --> 00:41:13.597
But I think, put sometimes in perspective um, things always turn out pretty much okay if something bad happens, if you think about it, especially professionally.

00:41:13.597 --> 00:41:14.626
Um.

00:41:14.646 --> 00:41:17.797
So don't, don't, don't make one thing that goes not your way.

00:41:17.797 --> 00:41:18.920
Make take it.

00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:19.362
Go.

00:41:19.362 --> 00:41:19.983
Make it.

00:41:19.983 --> 00:41:22.172
Take over your day or your week or your month.

00:41:22.172 --> 00:41:25.463
Um, because if you put that perspective, it's not that bad.

00:41:25.463 --> 00:41:27.429
If you think about it, you probably are in the process.

00:41:27.429 --> 00:41:29.494
Sometimes go back to the things you already did.

00:41:29.494 --> 00:41:30.757
That's good right.

00:41:30.757 --> 00:41:33.213
Think about the positive things sometimes as well.

00:41:33.213 --> 00:41:43.338
Don't just get lost in that one negative thing that came your way, so at least it's or if it's Mike Tyson, punching you in the face.

00:41:43.338 --> 00:41:56.112
Punching you in the face is maybe a big problem, but if it's something coming your way, don't make it take over your mindset or your thought process, because you've done already probably hundreds of things correctly.

00:41:56.855 --> 00:41:58.400
Yes, absolutely, gilles.

00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:03.315
It has been such a pleasure talking to you, not only as a subject matter expert, but also as a fellow entrepreneur.

00:42:03.315 --> 00:42:05.976
These types of conversations bring so much joy to me.

00:42:05.976 --> 00:42:24.068
It's what we're so dedicated to bringing to all of you listeners worldwide over 150 countries and I'm going to argue that every single one of our countries was represented in today's conversation with Jill because clearly, his advice goes so deep into the fact that we should all be proud of where we're from and there's a world of possibilities out there.

00:42:24.068 --> 00:42:28.536
So, listeners, we're dropping Jill's links down below in the show notes, wherever it is that you're tuning in.

00:42:28.536 --> 00:42:34.775
Otherwise, jill, on behalf of myself and all those listeners in over 150 countries, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

00:42:35.425 --> 00:42:36.148
I appreciate it, Brian.

00:42:36.148 --> 00:42:36.811
Thank you so much.

00:42:37.646 --> 00:42:43.208
Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:42:43.208 --> 00:42:47.177
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:42:47.177 --> 00:42:56.414
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom, and I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:42:56.414 --> 00:43:05.172
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:43:05.264 --> 00:43:07.233
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00:43:07.233 --> 00:43:08.831
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00:43:08.831 --> 00:43:12.315
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00:43:12.315 --> 00:43:23.204
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00:43:23.204 --> 00:43:31.777
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00:43:31.777 --> 00:43:33.110
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00:43:33.110 --> 00:43:37.735
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00:43:37.735 --> 00:43:39.137
Initiate a live chat.

00:43:39.137 --> 00:43:48.550
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