836: Transformative spaces and EXCEPTIONAL customer experiences and delivery w/ Hans & Kateryna Wolf

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and we have got not one, but two awesome guests here on today's episode.

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I'm so excited for you to see their entrepreneurial energy and their commitment to exceptional customer service in every single thing that they do.

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So let me introduce you to today's guests.

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Their names are Hans Wolff and Kat Wolff.

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Katarina is co-founder and owner of Wolff Den's Interior Design Services, but she's also really the inspiration for this business.

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With a passion for creativity, individuality and a deep understanding of design principles, she leads with vision and professional design skills that create bespoke results.

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From initial consultation to final touches, katerina will guide you through every step to ensure your vision signs through.

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Now Hans is the co-founder as well as a project manager.

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Hans is focused on delivering sound, on-plan, on-budget engagements.

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I love the fact that their skills complement each other as they grow a business and lead a business that is changing the lives of their clients.

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Hans uses the skills that he's honed over 14 years of effective delivery.

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He stays engaged with you at every step of the project, keeping you in the know about each step and each aspect of the timeline.

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I love what they're up to with their interior design service, so I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Hans Wolff and Katarina Wolff.

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All right, hans and Katarina I'm so excited that you're both here with us today.

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Welcome to the show.

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Thank you.

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Brian Heck.

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Yes, so I tooted your horns just a little bit.

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I already love the energy that you both bring to the table, but take us beyond the bio.

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Who's Hans?

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Who's Katarina?

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How did you both start doing this incredible business together?

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Well, you're, hans.

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So basically we spent many years in Europe.

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I lived there for 18 years.

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That's where I met Kat.

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When we came back here, we decided we wanted to do something for ourselves.

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Kat has her master's in architecture and we decided to go into interior design for that.

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It's something that she had been doing in Ukraine before, both commercially and residentially, and so we started here and we decided that, instead of arguing for the business, we'd carefully split what we do.

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So she takes care of the clients.

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She takes care of all of the designs.

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I make sure the business runs in the background.

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Everything is delivered as it should be.

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It's very important to us that this happens, because it really goes to who we are as people and as business owners.

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If we can give people the spaces that they really want, that they really feel comfortable in, we feel that every time we do that, we make the world a little bit better, because if you're someplace you're happy with, you're happier and you treat other people better.

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Yeah, as Hans mentioned, I have a master's degree in architecture, but basically, after I started working, I was mostly doing interior design and this is really my passion and I really would like to deliver very, very good quality products to the clients and my main point is to deliver what they expect me to deliver.

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So this is something that we're really focused on.

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We try to do what we promised and we try to help each other in that as well.

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Yeah, I love that overview, especially because both of you it's really it's revealed in both of your answers, which is you don't just talk about interior design, you don't just talk about the spaces, but both of you have such that strong emphasis on that delivery, on the people on the other side of it.

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Obviously, that's the entire reason why our businesses exist and why your projects exist is for those people.

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Talk to us about that because, kat, hearing your architectural background, hans, hearing your more operational delivery background, it's cool the fusion that you both get to bring to the table.

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But talk to us about that emphasis on the people, because there's a lot of interior design companies out there.

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But I love the work that you both do because of that focus.

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I'd love to hear your insights into how much of an emphasis you place on that.

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Okay.

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So in my understanding, our main difference from the rest of interior design firms is that I try to implement the 3d renderings, visualizations for the clients.

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This is, for me, probably one of the most important steps in the project, because I know that here in the US, things are really, really separated, so to speak.

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So, basically, if you're doing kitchen design, you're only doing kitchen design.

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If you're doing bathroom design, you're only doing bathroom design, and if you want your renderings to be done, it's like a completely different project.

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So I'm trying to combine it all together.

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We don't just provide you with a mood board or certain materials that you can use.

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We try to create a space, a 3D space for you, and in the future, I'm planning to also try and do a camera walkthrough so you can be present in your space virtually, and also after that, this is what you will receive.

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So what you see on the screen or on the printouts is what you will receive.

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This is the main point of what we're doing differently, and I truly, truly believe that this is one of the most important things in the design, because creating the mood board is great.

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Looking at the materials, you know choosing the materials very, very important.

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But when you put everything together and then you see that this color doesn't work or this material is not great, we had a lot of situations when the tiles that we chose was out of stock and we needed to find a really, really fast solution for that.

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And instead of just going with what there was to replace that tile, I made several.

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You know.

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We chose several options to replace the tile.

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I did several renderings and my client chose what they liked and again they received what they saw on the screen.

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So this is a very, very big part of any of the projects that we're making, and also right now I'm doing everything myself, but probably and again, this is just to make it easier both for me and for my clients, because if you, if you try to outsource it, it's very time consuming and then it takes time for it to render, it takes time for it to be sent over some touch-ups, then I have to print it out and present and all of this.

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So it's very it's easier for me right now to just do everything myself, you know, and, just like I said, deliver what I want to deliver and that's something that we're currently working on.

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Um, it's part of the business plan that we have.

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Uh, that's part my side of it.

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Um, I've designed out a business plan going out about 10 years and essentially we have stepwise fashion to upgrade the capability of doing our 3D renders, bring more capability in-house and then we'll be able to hire somebody internally to continue that, where we have the oversight and the control, because it is very important for us to deliver not what we want to deliver, but what our clients want.

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I've heard so many, for example, I've heard so many times on a lot of these TV programs about interior design and everything.

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You have these very young designers or want to be designers, and they're going.

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Well, this is my style and I do this.

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I'm sorry If you're not Zaha Hadid.

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You really don't have a style.

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You're supposed to deliver to the client what the client desires.

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It's their space, it's the client desires.

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It's their space, it's their home, it's their area and, um, not to go, it's with one of our recent clients, we did a bathroom for her.

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When she came to us, she's like oh, I went to all of my neighbors and this is what they have All of my friends.

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Yeah, All of my friends to see what they have.

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And our first question is well, do you want your neighbor's bathroom or do you want yours, the one that suits you and is your vision, your space, and that's I mean that really is what is important to us.

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Yeah, I love the way that you both articulate that.

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It is that blend of that personalization which I think is so powerful, because that really again it's going to be a recurring theme of our conversation today is that people first focus.

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It is I'm interested in delivering what you want as the customer, as the client.

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I think it's such an important part, katarina, from those 3D renderings so that they can actually imagine that space and then you together can bring it to that reality.

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So I absolutely love it.

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But what really stands out, as I did a deep dive into your business ahead of today's conversation, it just really stuck out to me how much you place an emphasis on the transformative power of spaces.

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We aren't just talking about interior design services, as just you know, moving some things and putting some things on the wall.

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We're actually talking about says it right on your website we'll deliver transformative spaces that promote your well-being and place you in the haven you desire.

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And I love it's one simple line towards the bottom of your website, which we'll drop your website link at the end of today's episode, but it quite simply says let's create inspiration together, knowing that we're being listened to by entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs all over the world.

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Talk to us about that power of spaces.

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Why do you both place such that strong emphasis on what's in our spaces and what are the spaces that we operate in?

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Well, I mean, your home is the place that you should be enjoying.

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This is where you spend most of your time, even though, where everybody is working, everybody is out of the house a lot.

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But to me it's very, very important to come back home to be able to enjoy it.

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And, like you said, it's not just moving things, it's not just decorating the walls, it's creating the space that you feel like living in.

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You feel like you can relax there, you feel like this is your personal and unique space.

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And, like Hans mentioned before certain clients again, especially here in the US, and again I I don't want to sound bad, but we are a little bit different because we lived many years in europe, in malta.

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It's a very different environment.

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It's a very different culture.

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The, the style there is like a completely, it's very, very unique to that area.

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But somehow Europeans, they don't try to copy each other.

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They try to see what can be done for them to be different.

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Somehow, here in the US at least, we live in the South.

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The South is very traditional and obviously it's changing.

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But it's taking a while for people to change and sometimes they need a little bit of a kick for that.

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So we're trying to explain, we're trying to educate people a little bit, because if you don't, if you never thought about that, it's very hard to understand the importance of the actual project, of the interior design project.

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And again, I studied for many years, I have more than 20 years experience in that.

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And if you need to fix your plumbing, you don't do it yourself, you call a professional that knows how to do that.

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And the same goes for interior design.

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You don't just do it yourself.

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I know that a lot of people, they have great taste, they can go and, you know, choose their colors and choose their furniture on their own.

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But together with that you have to really combine all the things together.

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And that's another um point why I really like you know the 3D renderings, because here I and usually I also do the actual product.

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So if we chose this sofa, I will put this sofa in your rendering so you will see how it's going to work in your living room.

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And same goes with you know kitchens, because if you just change your countertop color or your backsplash, or even, you know, get away from the traditional framed oh my God, what are they called the frame fronts for the shaker style kitchens, this will change a lot.

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And again, kitchen as they say here, kitchen is the heart of the house.

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Kitchen is the place where you spend a lot of time.

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You need to enjoy that.

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You need to be able to use all of the.

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I mean, we're in the 21st century.

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There are so many things that you can really implement in your kitchen.

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There are organizers, there are all of those different features for your cabinets, for your drawers, for your, for your, you know, blind corner cabinets and so on and so on.

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So, like I said, it's very, very important To me.

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It's very important to to make it unique, to make it your place, to make it your space, to make it the place where you want to stay.

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You will be able to enjoy and that will say, yes, it's me, yes, this is my place and it really reflects me myself lot of what I did in Europe I was in medical devices is finding where there is a gap, finding where there is a weakness, and targeting towards that.

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And when we started discussing this and we looked into the market, that is something that I saw that was there, because many times people are getting design done or remodels done by contractors or home remodelers and it's business it's.

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It's simple you cut down your supply, you reduce inventory, you keep tight lines.

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It reduces cost, makes things easier, but at the same time you're again, you're delivering what you want to deliver and many times, if you're a good salesperson, you've convinced the customer that this is really what they want.

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And then it's not until months later of living in that space that they've learned this isn't quite what I want.

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And then it's not until months later of living in that space that they've learned this isn't quite what I wanted.

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And then the process starts all over again and we don't want that.

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We want people to come back to us 10, 15 years later and say I've just loved my place, I've loved my space.

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That's what we dream of.

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Yeah, I'll tell you what I think it's so fascinating.

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Obviously, you two are in the trenches doing the work day in and day out, and both of you have that emphasis.

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Katerina, you talked about the necessity for education for your clients, and, hans, you've given us some real life examples.

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I think back to all the graphic designers that I talked to, or website designers, where they design a website according to what the client wants and then the client sees somebody else's website and all of a sudden, they want to go back to the drawing board, which obviously is an inevitable part of when we're working around human preferences and human behavior and how influenceable they are.

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I would love to hear both of your perspectives, because it touches so many different businesses, not just in the interior design space.

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But what has been that nurturing process with your clients?

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I would imagine that the two of you have gotten really good at it over the years of being in this space, but that's an inevitable part.

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So what do you do from a project management perspective, from a delivery perspective, from an actual I would imagine the 3D rendering so they can actually see it before you start doing it?

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I imagine that helps, but talk to us about that nurturing process of those clients who are undergoing these transformative changes in their spaces.

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So from my side of it, it really is.

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Once cat is done, once the client has decided, they've pulled the trigger really on the design, if they've decided to continue to use our services because, yes, we can come into the space, create a design for you and then give it to you.

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You can have your contractor do it.

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We provide everything 3D renderings, 2d CAD drawings, the tile layouts, wiring diagrams, everything there to give the client what they want.

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If the clients decide to go with us, then it's a matter of looking at the lists of what needs to be done, working with the contractor to make sure that everything is scheduled, trying to keep contractors to that schedule.

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Who, anybody that works with contractors know.

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This is a continuous struggle and really, regardless of what's going on, we are there with the client every single week, at least one time a week, to let them know what's happening that week, to let them know what's going on.

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Really, kat has described her side of it.

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She almost becomes more like family with them.

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It's getting to know them, understand their taste, understand their desires, understand who the person is, because all of that is part of what goes into creating that space that is just uniquely theirs and it's even built into our name Wolf dens.

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Originally it's a den, it's a place where wolves I mean, if you've got a name like ours, why not use it?

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But it speaks to so much more now.

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I mean what in human terms?

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What is your den?

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Is that place where you retreat to, where you can be completely comfortable, you can be safe, you can be surrounded by you?

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For me again, it's sorry it's so the process is very, very important as well.

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Like Hans said, again, it's more becoming, I would not say a family, but like a very, very close friend to them, because you have to know each person in the family.

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They're all different, sometimes they don't agree with each other, but you have to find you have to be a psychologist in a way you have to find a way to satisfy all of them.

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Not to it, because you know, sometimes people really fight about remodeling.

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It's one of the probably the most difficult decisions in the life.

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Um, and we say that if you didn't get the word, like the ukrainian thing is that if you didn't get divorced during your remodeling, you'll probably last forever.

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So it is very, very important to understand each other's needs, to see who is who in the family, what is the most important thing for them.

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I always ask for inspirational photos or, you know, ideas, whatever, just to see what they are looking for, which is not necessarily will be mirrored in the project, but at least it's a good point to start.

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So from that we go to the discussion of what they're looking for, their idea of the space, if they want you know how unique they want it to be and stuff like that, and then from then I do a little sketch drafts and then, if everything is working, we continue to renderings, we continue to CAD drawings and so on and, like he said again, we try to provide everything for their contractor.

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I print out every single drawing that they need.

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If you, if they need more, if they need the elevation of this exact wall, I will make the elevation of this exact wall.

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If it's a different tile, I will make another tile layout and everything else we will.

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We're going to implement this, just doing the project with us.

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So, basically, you are just buying the set of drawings and renderings and then maybe you bought a house for your kids and you don't want to do it right now, but you're planning to remodel it in I don't know five years.

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So you're buying a project and then five years later, you can still do it because you will have the set of drawings, you will have all your renderings, you will have the material checklist and if we're here, if you need to change anything, we can do that.

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So that's another thing that we're looking for to implement yeah, I'll tell you what all this talk about family.

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I've got to ask the two of you because I think it's such an exciting part of these conversations for me to talk to co-founders like yourselves who are partners in business and in life, and I want to get some behind the scenes because I would imagine that was a very exciting time in your lives where you both agreed let's have a business together, let's go ahead and do this, take us back to that origin story and then give us some of that behind the scenes because listeners, knowing Hans and Kat, even the little that I already do, I can imagine it's not always smooth sailing.

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So, hans and Katarina, give us some of those lessons and insights behind the scenes.

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No, it was not always easy.

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It's a difficult decision.

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I mean, I'm used to working full time.

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It's comforting to be collecting a paycheck from somewhere.

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It's scary to step away from that.

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So I continued working for about the first seven months after we started and then, once the workload reached a point where I could no longer just support in the background in the afternoons, then I stepped away from my work and yeah, it's scary putting everything in one place, but it's one of the things that I learned that I really live by.

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Growth starts where your comfort zone ends.

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If you're never willing to take a chance, if you're never willing to be embarrassed, if you're never willing to make a mistake, you're not going to go anywhere.

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So it is difficult, it's not easy, it's stressful.

00:24:03.704 --> 00:24:13.801
You know we we worry about what to do, but we try and stay in our lanes and discuss what's going on.

00:24:13.801 --> 00:24:15.105
What do we need to do?

00:24:15.105 --> 00:24:23.960
That next step to move forward, and for me, that's part of the reason you really do need to put down and set out a business plan.

00:24:24.220 --> 00:24:28.489
Even if it it's rough, you need to know where you're going.

00:24:28.489 --> 00:24:35.484
It's if you're I mean compare it to if you're going to somebody's house a few states away.

00:24:35.484 --> 00:24:37.382
You can do it one of two ways.

00:24:37.382 --> 00:24:44.221
You can put their address into the GPS and follow, and you know where you're going.

00:24:44.221 --> 00:24:46.607
Wherever you take a turn, you know which direction you're going.

00:24:46.607 --> 00:24:46.865
Sometimes you go off course, but at least you can correct back.

00:24:46.865 --> 00:24:47.038
Know where you're going.

00:24:47.038 --> 00:24:47.436
Wherever you take a turn, you know which direction you're going.

00:24:47.436 --> 00:24:51.467
Sometimes you go off course, but at least you can correct back to where you are.

00:24:51.467 --> 00:25:00.345
If you don't have that plan, it's similar to going every time you come to a turn or a chance to go in a different direction.

00:25:00.345 --> 00:25:02.064
At this time, I feel like going this way.

00:25:02.064 --> 00:25:04.182
This time, I feel like going this way.

00:25:06.056 --> 00:25:07.201
Eventually you'll get there.

00:25:07.300 --> 00:25:08.967
but You'll get somewhere.

00:25:08.967 --> 00:25:10.396
Is it where you want to be?

00:25:10.396 --> 00:25:11.582
Probably not.

00:25:13.817 --> 00:25:19.746
I'll be a little bit more pragmatic here and say that it was not an easy decision.

00:25:19.746 --> 00:25:29.567
We both worked when we just moved here, and then we just reached the point and I was working in a kitchen and bath showroom.

00:25:29.567 --> 00:25:40.270
I just reached the point where I felt like I can do so much more than what that place can provide to the clients.

00:25:40.270 --> 00:25:45.083
We just sat down, we talked about it and we said listen, let's try.

00:25:45.083 --> 00:25:50.260
Like Hans said, if you don't try, you don't know what's going to happen.

00:25:50.260 --> 00:25:55.541
So unless you will start something, it's a very big responsibility.

00:25:55.541 --> 00:26:08.189
Of course it's very, very convenient to just go work 8 to 5, be done with it, have your lunch, whatever, and be home not being responsible for anything.

00:26:08.189 --> 00:26:11.921
But when you start your own business, you have to get ready that.

00:26:11.921 --> 00:26:15.868
It will be complicated, yes, but it also will be very, very rewarding.

00:26:15.868 --> 00:26:21.442
And the best part for me is when the project is completed and I see the result.

00:26:21.442 --> 00:26:28.050
I see that my clients are happy, I see that I did exactly what I promised to do.

00:26:28.050 --> 00:26:45.076
And you know I try and talk and I ask them if something happens.

00:26:45.076 --> 00:26:51.922
They can always come back to me, to us, and we will try our best to fix what was wrong.

00:26:52.955 --> 00:27:18.047
The most challenging part, I thought, would be that being a family and having run in the business together is not the best decision, but somehow it's working because I'm not interacting with his stuff, he's not getting into my part of it, so I'm completely taking care of the design part.

00:27:18.047 --> 00:27:29.621
I'm creative, I do everything that's for the project to be you know, to be done, and he's taking care of the back office.

00:27:29.621 --> 00:27:30.903
He's doing invoices.

00:27:30.903 --> 00:27:43.230
He's I even want him to do to answer all the calls and everything, because it's very time consuming and sometimes I just can't dedicate so much time to that.

00:27:43.230 --> 00:27:47.244
We don't really argue.

00:27:47.244 --> 00:27:55.726
We do have some disagreements from time to time, but I think it will all go away with the time.

00:27:55.726 --> 00:28:11.587
We're trying to get used to that because, like I said, living together and working together are two completely different things and sometimes it doesn't work, but I think in our case it's working just because we stay at our places.

00:28:11.587 --> 00:28:16.442
He's not getting into design, I don't get into invoicing, that's it.

00:28:18.075 --> 00:28:18.477
Listeners.

00:28:18.477 --> 00:28:25.221
You can't necessarily see Hans and Kat right now, but I can see them and they both have a big smile on their face as they talk about this.

00:28:25.221 --> 00:28:27.576
And it's not just a smile because things are easy.

00:28:27.576 --> 00:28:31.566
It's a smile admitting and acknowledging that there are those difficult things.

00:28:31.566 --> 00:28:36.846
And so, hearing the way that you two divvy up those lanes, I think it is a really powerful business lesson.

00:28:36.846 --> 00:28:47.361
And, whether it's our spouse or whether it's a team member, I think it's so important to have those separation of duties and responsibilities to create that well-oiled machine which is what I really see out of the two of you.

00:28:47.361 --> 00:28:52.842
And the fact that you make it work family-wise and fun-wise and partnership-wise, I think is even more powerful.

00:28:52.842 --> 00:28:56.817
So, as we come towards the end of today's session, I don't want to let you two go just yet.

00:28:56.837 --> 00:29:00.462
I want to extract a few additional questions out of you to get at your brilliance.

00:29:00.864 --> 00:29:16.336
The first one is really a two-part question because obviously, katarina, when I think of you, I think of blueprints, I think of the fact that you very intentionally lay out spaces and, hans, I really love that you use the roadmap analogy, because it's really the same thing whether we're talking roadmaps or blueprints.

00:29:16.336 --> 00:29:24.701
So the two-part question is one you've really stressed and emphasized the importance of that business plan Looking forward in your own business.

00:29:24.701 --> 00:29:26.501
How far out are you looking?

00:29:26.501 --> 00:29:36.249
What are the aspects of your business that you're looking at to intentionally plan for, because obviously things will change over time, but what are those things you're intentionally planning for?

00:29:36.249 --> 00:29:43.073
And then the second part of the question is a more I guess this one's probably more for Katarina which is what's the direction of your industry as a whole?

00:29:43.073 --> 00:29:45.804
Technology is changing interior design so much.

00:29:45.804 --> 00:29:47.962
We've talked about technology a lot here today.

00:29:47.962 --> 00:29:50.275
I think it's such a cool part of your business.

00:29:50.275 --> 00:29:54.567
So that's the two part question direction of your business and direction of the industry.

00:29:57.115 --> 00:30:07.130
So, when it comes to planning for business, um, I'm part of a board group and I tell them the same thing.

00:30:07.130 --> 00:30:13.968
What you should do is ask yourself where do you want your business to be in 10 years?

00:30:13.968 --> 00:30:21.382
Where do you want it to be in five years, where do you want it to be in two years and where do you want it to be in one year?

00:30:21.382 --> 00:30:25.865
Then you go to 10 years and you walk it back, step by step, to five years.

00:30:25.865 --> 00:30:31.625
From five years walk it back to two and then to one and then to where you are.

00:30:31.625 --> 00:30:37.159
Obviously, the farther out you go, the more general it is.

00:30:37.159 --> 00:30:59.845
For us, the idea is that in 10 years, what we would like to do is have created the brand, have created the name for what Katarina does, the recognition of her talent as an interior designer, which I believe is really at the top.

00:30:59.845 --> 00:31:21.526
I keep, you know, trying to push her that she's better than she thinks she is, but the ability to purchase land or resort houses and really go through them and do a complete turnkey design on them, fully furnished, everything that's there.

00:31:21.526 --> 00:31:32.097
Yes, we're speaking to a higher end clientele, but it's for them to have a turnkey property that they don't have to do anything to it.

00:31:32.097 --> 00:31:39.844
They know Katz Designs, they know that what's going to be there is amazing, and so when they go there, they open the door.

00:31:39.844 --> 00:31:41.307
They have everything that they need.

00:31:41.307 --> 00:31:45.919
That's where we want to go In five years.

00:31:47.821 --> 00:31:51.148
We're going to be still building on that brand.

00:31:51.148 --> 00:31:53.676
It is a long term Five years.

00:31:53.676 --> 00:31:55.762
We want to be doing more.

00:31:55.762 --> 00:32:04.388
Instead of locally, we're going to be working on a national level, trying to expand our reach beyond just where we are in Atlanta.

00:32:04.388 --> 00:32:13.648
Two years from now, we want to have had another 100% growth.

00:32:13.648 --> 00:32:33.880
We want to have brought in the 3D rendering, have a render farm so that we can do them in less time, have somebody trained on that and have at least our first junior designer working under Cat One year from now.

00:32:34.382 --> 00:32:48.601
Our plan this year is mainly advertising and a 100% growth in revenue, which is not as bad as it sounds, because in our industry it doesn't take that many clients to do so.

00:32:48.601 --> 00:32:53.636
So that's where we are right now and then that's the general of that.

00:32:53.636 --> 00:33:04.267
And then, obviously, you need to take each of those steps and look at what am I going to do to achieve this goal, and as long as you do that, you know where you're going.

00:33:04.267 --> 00:33:10.153
We know where we're going.

00:33:10.153 --> 00:33:11.416
Things may come up that change it.

00:33:11.416 --> 00:33:36.406
One of them is that we actually were contacted by a company to open some flagship showrooms for them as their distributor in the luxury goods industry, because of what we do with Wolfden's and that's something that we're working on right now as well so, as I learned in corporate ambiguity, always be ready for it.

00:33:36.406 --> 00:33:38.049
It is what runs life.

00:33:39.757 --> 00:33:41.578
It is what runs life Technology-wise.

00:33:41.578 --> 00:33:46.565
There are probably two different sides of that.

00:33:46.565 --> 00:34:10.125
The first one is implementing technology in the process of designing, such as there are these apps or tools that allow you to do the measurements of the space really fast, like in several minutes, versus what I'm doing manually right now is going from wall to wall and doing tape measure or digital tape measuring.

00:34:10.125 --> 00:34:12.300
So that's one thing.

00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:30.405
Then, another one I mentioned before is I want to try and do this camera walkthrough the space that I'm designing, so you don't only see your renderings from several points in the room, you will be able to see the whole space and walk there.

00:34:30.405 --> 00:34:45.146
Then there are a lot of other VR technology that allow you to actually be in the room and see what's going on, what can happen with that, how it will be like a life change to that.

00:34:45.146 --> 00:34:54.655
And another thing is when you try and use technology in the design, so not in the process, but in the design itself.

00:34:54.655 --> 00:35:08.190
Like I mentioned, all of these organizers for your kitchens and you know all of these organizers for your kitchens, all this modern sofas that you know serve beer while you're watching TV, and stuff like that.

00:35:08.190 --> 00:35:12.838
And again, you have to educate your clients.

00:35:12.838 --> 00:35:14.103
You have to really let them know what's going on.

00:35:14.143 --> 00:35:18.164
In today's world, there are a lot of things that they're not aware of.

00:35:18.164 --> 00:35:23.016
There are things that you can really use and they're not very expensive.

00:35:23.016 --> 00:35:37.759
They will not add too much to your project, but you will feel so much happier having them in your house, being able to use them, and it will last you several years, because things are developing really fast nowadays.

00:35:37.759 --> 00:36:06.244
You know, starting from the temperature of the bulbs that you can change, or you know your background lights and stuff like that, and we just started getting into it we as a humanity, I mean and obviously it will develop, it will grow, and I would really like to really let people know that there are so many things right now that they can use and you have to show it to them.

00:36:06.304 --> 00:36:11.463
You have to really let them know that they're there, you can use them, it's not crazy.

00:36:11.463 --> 00:36:13.248
You're not crazy for using them.

00:36:13.248 --> 00:36:22.670
It will make your life easier, it will help you and you will be as happy as it is possible right now in your space.

00:36:22.670 --> 00:36:27.101
Again, this is our main idea Make your space unique, make it your place.

00:36:27.101 --> 00:36:33.125
Don't look at your neighbors, don't look at the magazines, don't try and copy somebody.

00:36:33.125 --> 00:36:34.755
Make it unique, make it yours.

00:36:34.755 --> 00:36:38.684
If you want to use something that nobody else used before, go ahead and do that.

00:36:38.684 --> 00:36:39.987
It's not going to hurt you.

00:36:39.987 --> 00:36:43.018
It will just improve the quality of your life.

00:36:43.541 --> 00:37:04.170
But I have to say technology from the client side can be a double edged sword Because many times you know they're finding things and looking for things and they want it in their space and we have to go look, that's a wonderful idea, but just it won't work.

00:37:05.235 --> 00:37:07.222
Yeah, well, of course you have to be careful with that.

00:37:07.222 --> 00:37:08.820
You have to see what's going to work where.

00:37:09.434 --> 00:37:13.726
Which I think that that is a real life business case study for all of you listeners.

00:37:13.726 --> 00:37:15.561
It is that client management.

00:37:15.561 --> 00:37:16.644
It is that two way street.

00:37:16.644 --> 00:37:20.702
I often use the word nurturing and into both of your points you do have to nurture it.

00:37:20.802 --> 00:37:27.664
So, katarina, I look forward to the day where I can throw on my Apple vision pro headset and walk through a space that you have designed.

00:37:27.664 --> 00:37:36.639
And, hans, on top of that, not only the technological advancements, but I so appreciate and respect and admire the fact that you transparently show with us your strategic mind.

00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:46.291
Listeners, you see the way that both Hans and Katarina view their businesses their business together as well as their business within a broader industry to be at the forefront of those changes.

00:37:46.291 --> 00:38:00.940
So, hearing those growth plans, I'm personally so excited to see the growth of technology, to experience your design brilliance, katarina, but also to follow along as you both go national with the impact of your work and delivering those exceptional client experiences.

00:38:00.940 --> 00:38:05.108
So, with that said, I know that listeners will be keen to follow your growth journey.

00:38:05.108 --> 00:38:06.639
So drop those links on us.

00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:13.420
Where can listeners go to learn more about Wolfden's interior design services and all the great things that you're both up to?

00:38:14.583 --> 00:38:15.284
Thank you, brian.

00:38:15.284 --> 00:38:16.487
Thanks for having us.

00:38:16.487 --> 00:38:18.516
It was a pleasure talking to you.

00:38:18.516 --> 00:38:21.079
We're very passionate about what we're doing.

00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:27.686
I really I'm looking forward to the growth and again, thanks for having us.

00:38:29.009 --> 00:38:31.311
So I appreciate you having us.

00:38:31.311 --> 00:38:33.496
It's really great.

00:38:33.496 --> 00:38:41.385
You know, for us it really is about making the world a better place, one person at a time.

00:38:41.385 --> 00:38:54.280
So if what we've had to say here on your, your program helps anybody makes their life a little bit better, that's great for us.

00:38:54.280 --> 00:38:59.949
If you want to follow after us, our main website is wolfdensnet.

00:38:59.949 --> 00:39:05.581
We tried to keep it as simple as possible.

00:39:05.601 --> 00:39:08.969
um we we are on instagram, we are on facebook, we're on.

00:39:08.969 --> 00:39:17.114
We're starting tiktok, so we should be everywhere soon pin interest and house as well yes, listeners, you already know the drill.

00:39:17.215 --> 00:39:25.965
we are making it as easy as possible for you to go deeper into the Wolf Den and you can find Katerina and Hans' business website at wolfdensnet.

00:39:25.965 --> 00:39:31.443
You'll find that link down below in the show notes, wherever it is that you're tuning into today's episode.

00:39:31.443 --> 00:39:37.222
And, hans, on behalf of myself and all the listeners, thank you very much, katerina, on behalf of myself and all the listeners.

00:39:37.222 --> 00:39:39.420
Duja djaku you, maledets.

00:39:39.420 --> 00:39:41.786
This was so much fun hanging out with you both today.

00:39:41.786 --> 00:39:43.960
Thanks so much for joining us on the show.

00:39:44.943 --> 00:39:45.284
Thank you.

00:39:48.056 --> 00:39:53.567
Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:39:53.567 --> 00:39:57.554
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:39:57.554 --> 00:40:06.824
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom, and I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:40:06.824 --> 00:40:15.603
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:40:15.695 --> 00:40:17.643
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00:40:17.643 --> 00:40:19.259
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00:40:19.259 --> 00:40:22.755
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00:40:22.755 --> 00:40:33.697
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00:40:33.697 --> 00:40:42.197
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00:40:42.197 --> 00:40:43.539
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00:40:43.539 --> 00:40:48.141
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00:40:48.141 --> 00:40:49.585
Initiate a live chat.

00:40:49.585 --> 00:40:58.985
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