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Hey, what is up?
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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.
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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and I know from interacting with so many of you listeners that there's one topic that anytime we talk about it here on the show, you all eat it up because it's something that we can't ignore as entrepreneurs.
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That topic is productivity, and we'll lump in with it time management.
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Those two things are so intertwined and ultimately, they're what's gonna decide what we accomplish or what we don't accomplish in our lives, in our businesses, in our relationships, in our fitness, in literally anything.
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We have to manage time.
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It is the only and the scarcest resource that we all have on this planet, and that's why today I've been so excited about this conversation, because we have got a brilliant entrepreneur and software engineer who has built something that, when I read the reviews of this tool, people are saying it's literally changing my life.
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So let me tell you all about today's guest and entrepreneur.
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His name is Jacob Barnes.
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Jacob is a software engineer turned entrepreneur who is passionate about using time effectively to create a fulfilling and rewarding life.
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He got his start in entrepreneurship at just 22 years old, working on what was a side project with his twin brother to address their own time management pain points.
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Now, five years later, that same side project has turned into their full-time jobs.
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Through his work, jacob shares his passion for living intentionally and helping others do the same.
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His tool, flow Savvy, is incredible.
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I'm not going to tell you about it because I want to hear him talk about it.
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So, with all of that said, I'm excited about this one.
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Let's dive straight into my interview with Jacob Barnes.
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All right, jacob, I am so very excited that you're here with us today.
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First things first.
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Welcome to the show.
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Thank you so much, brian.
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It's good to be here, and I'm really excited to talk about productivity as well.
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It's a good intro.
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I know these listeners.
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These are the people that have the mindset for what we're talking about, so I'm excited for it.
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Heck, yeah, it's funny.
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I often say on the air, I'm like you're preaching to the choir, because that's the thing when you get entrepreneurs together.
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We all think about these same things, but very few people, jacob, are launching these types of solutions into the marketplace, and I would argue it's a combination of skills, but also mindset and determination and all the other things.
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So, before we get to all that stuff, take us beyond the bio.
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Who's Jacob?
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How'd you start doing all these cool things?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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How'd you start doing all these cool things?
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Yeah, absolutely so.
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Like Brian said, I am a software engineer turned entrepreneur.
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I always thought I was going to be just a software engineer and just doing that for the rest of my life.
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I really enjoy software engineering, but I quickly turned into the entrepreneur world, did a couple internships and then did one year of a full-time job and then that's when this business took over and so quickly switched into that and it's been a really good learning experience.
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I'm really passionate about this topic time management, productivity.
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I'm sure we're going to talk about that a lot, but it's fun to have that combination of the two, that intersection of the two what I'm passionate about and what the business is in.
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And aside from that, I love music, dancing, and I'm really into canyoneering as well.
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I'm out here in Utah, so lots of canyoneering, rappelling outdoor stuff.
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Yeah, I love that, jacob.
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I love how.
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To me, what's really clear about your marketing language and the way that you talk about flow savvy and even just hear the way you talk about your intro here in this podcast episode is it's so clear to me that you view time as this one big bundle of an amazing thing that we get to spend and we get to use on life, not just business.
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Business is one aspect of that and it's intertwined in the way you talk about yourself.
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It's intertwined in the way that Flow Savvy talks about the way that we can make the most of our time.
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Talk to us about where this fundamental attitude towards time even comes from.
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Oh, my goodness, we, we're gonna get deep fast, okay.
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So I I have just always felt like I guess it's a little bit of impostor syndrome when you're in the professional world and everyone's obviously being very professional and businessy, and it just always felt a little I don't know.
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It just felt like a little wrong to me, because my focus is on being happy all the time and you can be happy at work.
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That's not what I'm saying, but my focus is on that, and so I want to make the most of my time.
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And then this is why I say we're going to get deep fast, but I'll keep it high level.
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I lost someone very close to me like four-ish years ago and that really made me realize I do not have time to be being lax about relationships and just telling people how I feel about them.
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Using time well, using that quality time.
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So that's a constant reminder for me.
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So, yeah, it's something that's very, very important to me.
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It's not just a business thing.
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It's trying to make the most out of every second, with every second you have, with the people around as well.
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Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing those insights, jacob, because for you it really is real and for all of us in our own lives, whether it's in the good times, in the bad times, in the challenging times all of that, this is really what determines what we make of our lives is because our life is just a collection of time and and hopefully, we're spending it in all the right ways.
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And that's why, when I think about you know us as entrepreneurs we love time because we have goals and we want to do things and we want to accomplish things.
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They all take time, but we're also balancing all the other things.
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A lot of entrepreneurs or beginner entrepreneurs maybe it's a side hustle or, if you're a full-time entrepreneur, for the first time ever, you don't have a boss, you don't have anyone else who's telling you how to spend that time.
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We have to make those executive decisions and that's why I think for most of us as entrepreneurs, we've studied all different ways of being productive, of managing our time.
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I'm a big fan of batching, for example.
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You and I are recording this on a Tuesday.
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I do all my podcast interviews on Tuesdays just eight of them back to back to back.
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That's one of the ways that I'm productive.
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Jacob, talk to me about the different ways you've studied and tried to be productive and all the different strategies that you've explored along the way.
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Sure, yeah.
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So I started out on my productivity journey as a student, and so what I would do is I would have my Apple Notes I literally just started with my notes file and I would list out my different classes and then every two weeks, I would go into the syllabus or whatever for all of my classes, list out all of the assignments I had for all of those classes.
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That was my start.
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It was purely a to-do list, about as simple as you can get.
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That worked really well for me.
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Honestly, like, sometimes I feel like people try to use way too many tools and it gets a little overwhelming and you're constantly switching between tools.
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So I really liked that start.
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It was very simple.
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When I started getting a little bit more busy and had to be more intentional about how I'm planning out my time, I would take that same list and I would just put it into my calendar.
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So well, I guess.
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First I would, I would take the list and then put a time next to every night, next to everything on that list, how long I thought it was going to take, and then I would block out that time on my calendar.
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So now we're getting to time blocking, which is now my favorite productivity method.
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But time blocking is where you put something into the calendar.
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You say this is the exact time that I'm going to work on this.
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So very similar to batching that you're talking about, where you're dedicating a whole day to doing this specific type of task.
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Time blocking is a little bit more granular.
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So we're going to say like from 1 to 3 pm I'm going to study for my math class, and then from 3 pm to 5 pm, or like 3 to 4, I'm going to play guitar, something like that.
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It's a little bit more granular, so you can see how it can get overwhelming fast.
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Like, imagine you have a full calendar and you've got you know you planned out your entire week down to the minute.
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That's awesome.
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But as soon as something comes up or something changes, you now have to go redo your entire time blocking.
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That's actually where the idea for Flow Savvy, the business I'm working on right now, came from, and so time blocking is a really effective method.
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Another one that's very close that a lot of people like to use is time boxing.
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That a lot of people like to use is time boxing, and this gets closer to the de-theming or batching as well, where you're using a little bit bigger boxes and you're just saying I'm going to work on these tasks until this time and then I'm going to stop doing that.
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So usually you'd have like the same boxes every day and just say I'm going to do homework from this time and then I'm going to do personal stuff from this time, and when you get to the end of that, you stop.
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You have to, you have to move on.
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So it's not task-based, it's more uh, it's it's more.
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It's a little bit closer to batching, and you stick to those blocks.
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So time blocking is my favorite, though, and, uh, that's how we got our start in flow savvy.
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Yeah, jacob, I love that overview.
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I guess I'm going to interject this into our conversation right now, which is I've never personally used time blocking.
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I have tried and I've thought about it.
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But I'm going to introduce this into the conversation because, for example, you and I had scheduled to do this interview today at this time.
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There's no way I'd miss it because I have an appointment with you.
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I'm not just going to blow you off, I'm not going to stand you up, and so I'm really good at adhering to my calendar when it comes to meeting other people.
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But for some reason, we could call it discipline, we could call it a lot of different labels, but when it comes to an appointment with myself, which is essentially what you're talking about putting on our calendars an appointment to do something the truth is, jacob, if I'm sitting in a coffee shop, I can look at my calendar and say I should be doing this, but there's five other things that I could be doing.
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Talk to me about I don't know if it's discipline, mindset, it's probably all of the above, above, and then a lot of other things.
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Talk to us about the importance of putting it on your calendar at a set time, sticking to that calendar and how to avoid that messy trap that all of us, entrepreneurs and people, fall into of.
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I'm just not going to listen to that oh, such a good question and it it is hard.
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I will say that's part of the reason we've created flow savvy, because things happen.
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You don't follow the schedule.
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I'm a calendar person.
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I use my calendar all the time.
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I stray from my calendar every single day, which is why it's so important to have a flexible schedule and you can have it moving around.
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So that's why we created flow savvy.
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But, um, let's talk about the the first question, which was you know why the importance of putting it on the calendar in the first place.
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So I want you to imagine two people.
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You've got like, um, sally, alex.
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You overhear them talking about how they are, um, thinking about their goals, and you hear Alex say something like you know, this year I really want to get better at practicing guitar.
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So I'm going to find an hour here or there to practice guitar, cool, okay, now you overhear Sally saying I really want to get better at guitar.
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This year I have blocked off on my calendar 2 pm to 3 pm on every Wednesday.
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Who do you think is going to do it, or at least has the most likelihood of doing it, because it is hard to stick to that time.
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But Sally has that plan in place where she gets to 2 pm on Wednesday and she says I already have this time blocked out.
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It's 2 pm.
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I know I have time for it because I can see on my calendar everything else has its place as well.
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So that's one thing that helps just seeing everything that has its place.
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So I really think it's important to put it on the calendar and then sticking to it.
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How do we stick to it?
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Like I said, it is hard.
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How do we stick to it?
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Like I said, it is hard, things change all the time.
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But I'll tell you one of the things we've done with Flow Savvy to make this a little bit easier for people.
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It's hard having internal deadlines for yourself, and so what we've done in Flow Savvy is we have this automatic color coding system where things, if you have plenty of time for everything, you throw everything into your calendar and it gets planned onto the calendar automatically.
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If you have plenty of time for everything, all your tasks are going to be green, you're in the green, you're doing fine.
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When things start getting closer to their deadline, then we'll start color coding things a little bit differently.
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So things start turning orange If they're getting close.
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That means you don't have much time to push them back, and then when they're going to miss their deadline, then we show them as red.
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So it gives people that visual cue.
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The way I think about this is imagine, I mean, you run a business, so this is going to make sense.
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You have to make data driven decisions and it's really hard to look at a table.
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Imagine, like a Google sheet table, just a spreadsheet of data and you're trying to figure out okay, what's the action item that we can take away from this?
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How do we make a decision based on this data?
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You can't just look at the data and figure it out.
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You have to visualize that usually in some way look at a graph, put it into a pie chart, something, and that's how I feel about the calendar as well.
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In this automatic color coding, you visualize that raw to-do list data in your time.
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You put it in your week and you can see here's what my time looks like here the orange days, here the green days.
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You can visualize that time and make better decisions.
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So it's it's.
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It naturally becomes very easy when you see you're about to miss deadlines, you see you're about to not be able to accomplish these things you said you wanted to, to be able to accomplish, and so if it really is just like a mental switch that makes that a lot easier, that's, that's not the best answer I have for that.
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No, I want to tell you this, jacob hearing you talk about it it does get me excited.
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So I'm not a flow savvy user at the time of recording, but I'm willing to bet within a few hours of us finishing recording today.
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Man, I'm excited to sign up for flow savvy.
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But I want to talk about the fact that, to me, the thing that excites me the most, hearing you talk about this, is you've introduced a to-do list into this conversation.
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It almost sounds to me like this is a replacement for the to-do list.
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It's not like I have to maintain a separate to-do list.
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I just give Flow Savvy my to-do list and it says okay, here's the game plan.
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And speaking of that game plan, I guess what excites me the most is it almost seems like a project manager, someone who's holding me accountable and saying perfect, those are all the things you need to do this week.
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Well, we know that you've got all these interviews already on Tuesday.
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We know that you've got meetings on Thursday and you've got internal stuff on Friday afternoon.
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Here's how we're going to fit all the things in.
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So I don't have to think about that.
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Is that a fair way for me to view it?
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Talk to us about that project manager or accountability component of what it does, and also hold on.
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The last thing I want to interject is is it a replacement for the to-do list?
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oh, is it a replacement for the to-do list?
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I think it's an augmentation of the to-do list.
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I I don't think managing your to-do list is the best way.
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No, no, no, here's the best way to say it.
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The to-do list is the input mechanism.
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In my opinion, the calendar is the output mechanism, meaning you throw everything into the to-do list and sure you can look at your to-do list to make sure everything's accounted for.
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Like if I have client A and I need to make sure I have put everything in my to-do list that needs to be done for client A, sure I can look at my to-do list, but to figure out what to do, it's pretty overwhelming to look at this massive to-do list and figure out what to do.
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So that is when we return to the calendar.
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And the calendar is the output mechanism where we can just say here's the one thing I need to do next.
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So I wouldn't say it's a replacement.
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I would say it's better to use the calendar as figuring out what to do next.
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And then for your question about the project manager, I would agree it's kind of like having a personal project manager, so maybe a better way to say it is like having your.
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It's like an automated executive assistant stray away from in flow savvy.
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That just our position in the market.
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We try and be specifically for individual time management, not project management and team stuff.
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so having a personal executive assistant, I think, is the best way to say it yeah, I love that and I love the fact that you guys are so clear on where it is in the market, the the gap that you're plugging, and obviously it's something that all of us need.
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On that personal level, for me I'll tell'll tell you selfishly, I'm already thinking.
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I'm trying to balance all these different businesses in my portfolio.
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I just want to give my entire week to it.
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So actually, let's use that as an example, jacob, because I can see flow savvy right now.
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I can see you guys have probably the best animated gifts that I've seen on a homepage or a business's website.
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So I immediately, even without using your tool, I can get a sense of how it works.
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But listeners can't see what I can see right now.
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So I'd love for you to walk us through a sample workflow, whether it's to let's, I guess we'll use to kick a week off.
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So it's Sunday night.
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I'm trying to plan the rest of my weeks that I can wake up on Monday morning and hit the ground running.
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What's that workflow look like and what's Flow Savvy actually going to do for me?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So the first thing that you would want to do is you've got your other tools that you already use.
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Maybe that's Google Calendar, outlook, icloud, if you're an Apple user.
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So the first thing we need to let Flow Savvy know about those things so that Flow Savvy can schedule around the things you've already scheduled.
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It needs to schedule around your life.
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So we'll connect your Google calendar, let's say, for this example, and that's going to pull in all of your events.
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So, for example, this interview is a fixed event.
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It's going to pull that in and it's going to know not to schedule anything during this time.
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The next thing you would want to do is put in your to-do list.
00:18:18.672 --> 00:18:26.279
So if you're you know, if you're using Apple Notes, like I was, or on my computer, I have OneNote up here as well.
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.875
I have just a bunch of things I want to do and you just brain dump.
00:18:29.875 --> 00:18:31.038
This is the brain dump phase.
00:18:31.038 --> 00:18:35.909
You type in the title the duration.
00:18:35.909 --> 00:18:43.099
So let's say, for example, I think it's going to take me two hours, and then you say when you want it to be done by.
00:18:43.099 --> 00:18:45.382
This is the due date as well.
00:18:45.382 --> 00:18:48.324
So you give, those are the basic things.
00:18:48.324 --> 00:18:49.443
There's other options as well.
00:18:49.443 --> 00:18:56.469
But that's really all you need to give to the app and you do that for all your tasks and then you really don't have to think about much other than that.
00:18:56.469 --> 00:19:01.532
It puts everything into your calendar according to your personal hours, work hours.
00:19:01.532 --> 00:19:04.280
So I can say this is a work task, this is a personal task.
00:19:04.280 --> 00:19:09.645
We can have that balance, that separation, and it's going to create your schedule for you.
00:19:09.645 --> 00:19:16.134
Now, creating the schedule is honestly, kind of easy, like some people look at it and say I could just do this myself.
00:19:16.134 --> 00:19:18.521
It might take 30 minutes, but I'll just put everything into my calendar.
00:19:18.521 --> 00:19:19.546
I like having that control.
00:19:20.096 --> 00:19:28.865
The problem starts coming in where, let's say, a day later or two days later, you have this two hour meeting that comes up, or you know, you just get behind.
00:19:28.865 --> 00:19:30.320
Something took longer than you thought.
00:19:30.320 --> 00:19:33.464
Or hey, a camping trip came up this weekend.
00:19:33.464 --> 00:19:35.156
I want to go on this camping trip.
00:19:35.156 --> 00:19:37.921
How do I rearrange all my time blocks?
00:19:38.321 --> 00:19:43.730
So that is where Flow Savvy really shines, because you can just add this camping trip.
00:19:43.730 --> 00:19:51.101
Let's say I'm just going to block out Friday and Saturday and that's all I do.
00:19:51.101 --> 00:19:51.742
I don't have to move anything.
00:19:51.742 --> 00:20:00.448
It just moves all of my time blocks to this week or pushes them off to next week if they can still fit next week, and it gives you your new schedule.
00:20:00.448 --> 00:20:02.380
So that's where the power of it comes in.
00:20:02.380 --> 00:20:04.705
And then next week it just gets easier.
00:20:04.705 --> 00:20:06.097
Next week it's Sunday.
00:20:06.097 --> 00:20:08.105
Sunday night you're planning your next week.
00:20:08.105 --> 00:20:14.726
Instead of like this hour-long weekly planning session, you just look through your list and say everything's in here.
00:20:14.726 --> 00:20:21.483
I'm just going to trust the schedule because it already knows how I can get all this done with the time that I have.
00:20:22.405 --> 00:20:31.839
Yeah, I love that sample work case and the fact that you brought up a really important point, which is, if I want to override it I changed my mind halfway through and I want to go on that camping trip.
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:33.384
I love that flexibility.
00:20:33.384 --> 00:20:37.160
That, to me, is something that you guys illustrate so powerfully with Flow Savvy.
00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:44.761
I want to put you on the spot here because you clearly know a lot about your space, your industry, even beyond just the work that you guys are doing with Flow Savvy.
00:20:44.761 --> 00:20:51.704
What are some of those things that people have tried before they end up becoming Flow Savvy evangelists?
00:20:51.704 --> 00:21:00.306
Because, like I said, reading your testimonials and the reviews that people have about the impact of how Flow Savvy has changed their workflow in their weeks, it's really powerful.
00:21:00.306 --> 00:21:05.579
But I also know there's a million different productivity and time planning tools on the marketplace.
00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:15.519
So, jacob, what are some of those things that people try before they end up becoming big adopters of time blocking and, specifically, how Flow Savvy can help with that?
00:21:16.922 --> 00:21:21.532
Yeah, the first thing is I think a lot of people don't realize that automatic time blocking exists.
