1005: Transforming HR and finding the PERFECT fit (assisted by technology!) w/ Johnathen Evans-Guilbault

WEBVTT

00:00:00.119 --> 00:00:01.082
Hey, what is up?

00:00:01.082 --> 00:00:04.371
Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:00:04.371 --> 00:00:08.026
As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and I'll tell you what.

00:00:08.026 --> 00:00:26.527
As 2024 is racing to a close, we are setting you up for growth, success in 2025 and beyond, and on Monday's episode, we had the amazing B Randall Willis on to talk about business growth and growing your team and really moving everyone in the same direction of your vision and your dreams and your goals.

00:00:26.527 --> 00:00:44.908
And that's why today we are supplementing all of that with a conversation that we have to have as business owners, and that is around HR, and today's guest views HR in such a different way that he is part of a great solution in the world to bring HR up to modern standards.

00:00:44.948 --> 00:00:51.612
There's so many old and archaic ways about HR that today's entrepreneur is changing the game in such positive ways.

00:00:51.612 --> 00:00:53.162
Let me tell you all about him.

00:00:53.162 --> 00:00:55.149
His name is Jonathan Evans-Gilbo.

00:00:55.149 --> 00:00:57.844
He's the co-founder and CEO of Sofra.

00:00:57.844 --> 00:01:06.489
They are an HR SaaS company connecting real job data with real outcomes through job analysis, for example.

00:01:06.569 --> 00:01:08.623
This was as soon as I saw this messaging.

00:01:08.623 --> 00:01:11.631
I thought to myself we have to have Jonathan on this show.

00:01:11.631 --> 00:01:17.733
They say and they ask why does an entry-level job require five to seven years of experience.

00:01:17.733 --> 00:01:23.933
What's the difference between a master's with a 3.2 GPA versus one from a top-tier school?

00:01:23.933 --> 00:01:33.367
The answer to those questions, in Jonathan's belief and mine as well, I share this is that these requirements are based on intuition, not real requirements.

00:01:33.367 --> 00:01:45.364
So Jonathan is an HR practitioner with over a decade of experience in the fields of classification and position management, and for all of us who are serious about our business growth, we're gonna learn a lot from Jonathan here today.

00:01:45.364 --> 00:01:48.793
His company is doing such cool things in the field of HR.

00:01:48.793 --> 00:01:54.403
There's going to be a lot of considerations that we take away as we grow our own teams and nurture those teams for success.

00:01:54.403 --> 00:01:55.826
I'm not going to say anything else.

00:01:55.826 --> 00:01:59.582
Let's dive straight into my interview with Jonathan Evans-Gilbo.

00:01:59.582 --> 00:02:06.174
All right, jonathan, I'm so excited that you're here with us today.

00:02:06.174 --> 00:02:08.122
First things first, welcome to the show.

00:02:08.903 --> 00:02:09.705
Thanks so much.

00:02:09.705 --> 00:02:13.252
I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you about HR.

00:02:13.252 --> 00:02:14.783
It's my love, my passion.

00:02:15.064 --> 00:02:22.925
Heck, yes, and I will say I said it in the teaser to today's episode that you do view it quite differently and I'm excited to hear all of those perspectives.

00:02:22.925 --> 00:02:26.151
But before we get to that stuff, take us beyond the bio.

00:02:26.151 --> 00:02:26.991
Who's Jonathan?

00:02:26.991 --> 00:02:29.014
How'd you start doing all these awesome things?

00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:38.099
Oh my gosh.

00:02:38.099 --> 00:02:39.883
So it all started when I was just a college student.

00:02:39.883 --> 00:02:55.633
There was a job opportunity at a local federal agency here and lo and behold, I applied and got in, and that exposure to HR radically just changed my life, because I began to realize, you know, we spend close to a third of our lives in work.

00:02:55.633 --> 00:02:59.985
So why the hell does work have to be a drudgery?

00:02:59.985 --> 00:03:05.735
And that just kind of kick-started my love and my passion into it.

00:03:05.735 --> 00:03:13.174
And then, on top of it all, I got to meet some really cool programmers along with it.

00:03:13.174 --> 00:03:17.419
So I was like, hmm, I wonder if we can augment HR with technology.

00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:19.748
And then boom, sofra was born.

00:03:19.748 --> 00:03:21.800
So yeah, it's great, awesome.

00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:32.159
Yes, it seems to me like somewhere along the way you learned and I attribute this to your entrepreneurial DNA you learned to question the way that things have always been done.

00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:36.222
I teased those questions at the top of this episode, jonathan.

00:03:36.222 --> 00:03:37.224
Where'd that come from?

00:03:38.168 --> 00:03:38.950
Oh my gosh.

00:03:38.950 --> 00:03:51.295
So one of the biggest things that got me was how on earth do you come up with your criteria to figure out who you want for your jobs?

00:03:51.295 --> 00:03:54.669
And no manager could answer me that question.

00:03:54.669 --> 00:04:08.256
They said, ah, I got a little feeling, but no one could tell me definitively data empirical whether quantitative, or quantitative data to back up those intuitions.

00:04:08.256 --> 00:04:14.492
And I was like so basically, we don't know what we don't know here, we're just perpetuating.

00:04:14.492 --> 00:04:17.605
And I had one manager tell me I shit you not.

00:04:17.605 --> 00:04:24.423
One manager told me I just go to Google and I copy and paste.

00:04:24.423 --> 00:04:29.012
And I was like and I bet you, everyone else and I copy and paste.

00:04:29.012 --> 00:04:33.423
I was like and I bet you, everyone else is doing the same thing and we're just chasing our tail here.

00:04:33.423 --> 00:04:36.732
So I thought, okay, what can we do?

00:04:36.732 --> 00:04:52.413
And that's when job analysis came to mind and that's the key to really stopping this negative feedback cycle and actually moving us into the right direction.

00:04:52.413 --> 00:04:53.595
And the rest is history.

00:04:54.156 --> 00:05:06.846
So, yeah, which is perpetuate, because we have all done exactly what you just said.

00:05:06.846 --> 00:05:12.670
We've all gone to Google, searched for a job description, copied it, and even today it's even easier because there's AI so we can just have that write it for us.

00:05:12.670 --> 00:05:14.475
So we're all guilty of that.

00:05:14.475 --> 00:05:15.500
But job analysis.

00:05:15.500 --> 00:05:18.915
Once you said that, I was like ah, that's something I've never done.

00:05:18.915 --> 00:05:24.346
Probably most business owners have never done it because we're worried about the 500 other things that we're responsible for.

00:05:24.346 --> 00:05:26.148
What the heck is job analysis?

00:05:26.949 --> 00:05:28.290
So job analysis?

00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:46.952
Think of job analysis as this gigantic x-ray machine, and what it does is when you use it, when you turn it on, you see all of the components and the processes that a job does.

00:05:46.952 --> 00:06:05.990
So it basically lists out what knowledge, skills, abilities, other characteristics you need from the worker, and then what tasks, duties and responsibilities and how frequently they do those things in the work itself.

00:06:05.990 --> 00:06:12.547
So that is what job analysis is in a nutshell and to your point, brian.

00:06:12.547 --> 00:06:19.764
It takes time, it takes money, and when you're an entrepreneur, you ain't got time.

00:06:19.764 --> 00:06:23.269
You're doing 200 different things at once.

00:06:23.269 --> 00:06:45.454
So of course you're going to go to Google, of course you're going to have Claude or chat GBT write the job description for you, and so that's where I came up with the idea of all right, let's make it easier for business owners to do this really crucial process, and all it takes is an hour or less of their time.

00:06:46.339 --> 00:06:49.428
All right, Jonathan, you're leading us there, so keep going down that path with us.

00:06:49.428 --> 00:06:51.262
What does it look like to make that easier?

00:06:52.245 --> 00:06:52.545
All right.

00:06:52.545 --> 00:07:28.922
So, basically, you take an hour of your time and we guide you through those questions, so those tasks, how frequently they're performed, the knowledge, the skills, the abilities that go into those different tasks, and then, through the magic of our science as well as AI, we're then able to produce the job description, the performance plan, the job announcement, the interview questions, all of those HR related things in seconds and, best of all, they're updated as your business grows.

00:07:28.922 --> 00:07:34.997
So that way, you're not having to redo all of these administrative tasks.

00:07:34.997 --> 00:07:50.391
You can actually focus on what's more important, which is growing your business, and doing so in a way that's scientifically validated and customized to what you really need in your business, not what Google says you need.

00:07:51.379 --> 00:07:59.120
Yeah, jonathan, I'll tell you what I love that brief overview of SOFRA and all the cool things that it does, because I'm a big believer that success leaves clues.

00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:15.872
And so when you talk about generating interview questions and generating the actual tasks that people will complete in a given role, to me I know that each of those things is intentional, because it's utilizing your subject matter expertise and you're baking that into what the technology is enabling for your users.

00:08:15.872 --> 00:08:17.543
So walk us through that path.

00:08:17.543 --> 00:08:25.302
It's going to sound on the surface level like you're walking us through your developmental path of all of these different features, but I know that it's also going to be revealing.

00:08:25.302 --> 00:08:27.983
When you sat down and said, what do these businesses need?

00:08:27.983 --> 00:08:30.228
It's revealing well, first things.

00:08:30.228 --> 00:08:31.572
First they need job interview.

00:08:31.572 --> 00:08:34.529
Well, first we need the job description, then we need the interview questions.

00:08:34.529 --> 00:08:36.563
Walk us through that developmental path.

00:08:37.404 --> 00:08:38.027
Oh my gosh.

00:08:38.027 --> 00:08:44.928
So the first thing that any of us, as business owners do is we have to identify the work.

00:08:44.928 --> 00:08:47.421
We have to identify the work that's needed.

00:08:47.421 --> 00:08:55.154
And so our system helps you do that by articulating the job duties that are done.

00:08:55.154 --> 00:09:01.352
And see, when most of us say the work that's required, we immediately think of a job title.

00:09:01.352 --> 00:09:05.067
But a job title is just that, it's a title.

00:09:05.869 --> 00:09:13.929
We break it down even further what does the job do, what are the elements of the work that are done?

00:09:13.929 --> 00:09:24.023
And so again, we walk you through, take you by the hand, through that primrose path, and then we ask you to identify okay, what knowledge do they need?

00:09:24.023 --> 00:09:29.634
What level of proficiency do they need in that knowledge?

00:09:29.634 --> 00:09:34.432
So like, do they need an emerging level of proficiency?

00:09:34.432 --> 00:09:46.003
Do they need an intermediate level or an advanced expert level of proficiency in that particular KSA, or knowledge skill ability in that particular KSA or knowledge skill ability?

00:09:46.003 --> 00:10:06.129
And so then, when we have all of those elements, those data points, we then just ask you to push a button and then our system has scientific guardrails put on it that then interprets all of the data you have given us and then it generates that product, that solution.

00:10:06.299 --> 00:10:08.229
So for the interview questions, for example.

00:10:08.229 --> 00:10:20.605
It not only gives you the interview questions, it gives you the behavioral anchors that demonstrate the levels of proficiency for that particular question.

00:10:20.605 --> 00:10:29.666
So you're not having to guess, you're just having to listen to the interviewee and make that determination of okay.

00:10:29.666 --> 00:10:39.932
On a level of one to five five being the most how greatly are they demonstrating that particular competency that you're wanting?

00:10:39.932 --> 00:10:42.504
And so that's the interview question.

00:10:42.504 --> 00:10:48.964
But the other thing is, let's say you bring them on board, what kind of training do you need for them?

00:10:48.964 --> 00:10:52.284
Well, our system identifies their training plan.

00:10:52.284 --> 00:11:02.188
So that way you can say okay, I know, I need them within the first 30 days to take X, y and Z training from this source.

00:11:02.188 --> 00:11:12.808
All right, that's golden, because now you, as the entrepreneur, you're no longer having to think through these things per se.

00:11:12.808 --> 00:11:18.129
All you have to do is connect them with the resources, and that's huge.

00:11:18.129 --> 00:11:30.158
That's a huge administrative burden lifted from people, and it allows entrepreneurs to do what they're best at, which is see a problem, solve the problem.

00:11:30.158 --> 00:11:32.466
Yeah, ultimate.

00:11:33.014 --> 00:11:33.379
Jonathan.

00:11:33.379 --> 00:11:45.163
There's so many ingredients there that I wanna go deeper into, so I'll try to withhold my excitement and go into these one by one, but let's start with interview questions, because well, actually, I guess here's the thing.

00:11:45.163 --> 00:11:46.546
The next few questions.

00:11:46.546 --> 00:11:53.225
What I'm really thinking is that part of what you're getting at is that one thing doesn't necessarily lead to another.

00:11:53.225 --> 00:11:58.628
Just because I have an impressive academic degree doesn't mean you use the word proficiency.

00:11:58.628 --> 00:12:01.514
It does not mean that I'm proficient in anything whatsoever.

00:12:01.514 --> 00:12:11.830
And so a lot of these things we're talking about is lining up and predicting in a scientific and reliable way of what's this person's job performance going to actually be.

00:12:12.674 --> 00:12:17.440
So, with that in mind, let's start with the interview questions, because there are great interview questions.

00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:19.130
Someone who's naturally curious, like myself.

00:12:19.130 --> 00:12:28.525
I could ask someone questions all day long, but what types of questions actually lead us to having strong predictive abilities with regards to someone's job performance?

00:12:29.595 --> 00:12:35.503
You know, brian, you touch on a very, very sensitive topic, especially for entrepreneurs.

00:12:35.503 --> 00:12:47.541
Entrepreneurs, in my opinion, we like to connect with people, we like to be spontaneous, somewhat flexible, and so we tend to favor unstructured interviews.

00:12:47.541 --> 00:12:55.596
Well, our system enforces what's called a structured interview, and it is able to.

00:12:55.596 --> 00:12:58.142
The scientific literature says that it is able.

00:12:58.142 --> 00:13:08.504
A structured interview is able to predict performance at 0.38, if I remember correctly, which is very, very high.

00:13:08.504 --> 00:13:16.397
So what we can do is we give you the interview question, and that interview question isn't random.

00:13:16.397 --> 00:13:30.187
It's tied directly to the duties and tasks you pre-identified in the job analysis, as well as the knowledge skills, abilities that you identified in that analysis.

00:13:30.187 --> 00:13:33.996
Knowledge skills abilities that you identified in that analysis.

00:13:33.996 --> 00:13:41.416
And so long as the interview question is anchored within that scientific validated basis, the question is valid, okay.

00:13:42.017 --> 00:14:16.230
So then, what we want to then assess, as I mentioned earlier, is the level of proficiency they demonstrate in that particular task or competency, and so what we then do is we use behavioral anchors, or demonstrators, as I call them, that mark, okay, this person is likely to possess level four on this proficiency scale, as opposed to level five.

00:14:16.230 --> 00:14:26.836
And these behavioral anchors are not replacements of your judgment as the interviewer, as the hiring manager, they're really guides to your judgment.

00:14:26.836 --> 00:14:28.620
Guides to your judgment.

00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:42.697
So they help guide your judgment and skills to determine, all right, this person really has it or this person doesn't have it at all.

00:14:42.697 --> 00:14:43.659
They went to chat GPT and just flubbed it.

00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.365
So, yeah, yeah, jonathan, here we are talking about judgment.

00:14:46.365 --> 00:14:47.388
I'll be honest with you.

00:14:47.388 --> 00:14:51.907
This is me totally calling myself out on the air here, and that is when I interview someone.

00:14:51.907 --> 00:15:02.220
Across all my different businesses, I've got different team members who do different capacities of work, and where I settle in most of these is I'm like can this person be a good fit on our teams?

00:15:02.220 --> 00:15:03.201
That's very important to me.

00:15:03.201 --> 00:15:05.975
And then, two, are they able to learn?

00:15:05.975 --> 00:15:13.541
Because if you give me someone who's eager to work and excited and has fresh ideas, then I can teach them the things that they need to know.

00:15:13.541 --> 00:15:18.219
So, jonathan, obviously that is a bit of an informal approach that I take to hiring.

00:15:18.219 --> 00:15:19.341
Walk me down that path.

00:15:19.741 --> 00:15:28.923
No, no, no, believe it or not, what you've touched on is something known as cognitive ability analysis, which is a form of job analysis.

00:15:28.923 --> 00:15:35.932
That is, we are after a person's mental capabilities.

00:15:35.932 --> 00:15:44.798
So you mentioned, for example, someone who's curious, someone who's eager to learn, open to new experiences.

00:15:44.798 --> 00:15:52.149
These are things that we can assess, but the way we assess them is different.

00:15:52.149 --> 00:16:08.923
So, for example, if you're trying to determine if someone is curious about something, what you would do is you would most likely outline a scenario-based question, like, for example, you see a problem and you want to create a new.

00:16:08.923 --> 00:16:14.811
You see a problem and you want to create a solution to that problem.

00:16:14.811 --> 00:16:17.760
How would you go about creating that solution?

00:16:18.381 --> 00:16:19.725
That would show creativity.

00:16:19.725 --> 00:16:25.205
That would show whether or not hmm, I would go to an expert in the field.

00:16:25.205 --> 00:16:28.097
You know that shows okay, they're willing to learn.

00:16:28.097 --> 00:16:30.702
It's something beyond their expertise.

00:16:30.702 --> 00:16:34.235
So, again, all of that can be evaluated.

00:16:34.235 --> 00:16:44.136
You just need to in advance identify that those are the qualities that you want in your hire.

00:16:44.136 --> 00:16:55.986
Otherwise, what you're doing, as you mentioned, brian, otherwise what you're doing is you're being spontaneous and you're not really being intentional in assessing that candidate for those skills.

00:16:56.749 --> 00:16:57.450
Yeah, Make sense?

00:16:57.450 --> 00:16:59.340
Yeah, no for sure it makes sense.

00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:04.592
It makes me feel a bit better, Jonathan, about my approach to it, because it is rooted in science and experience.

00:17:04.592 --> 00:17:06.920
On your behalf, which I very much trust your opinion there.

00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:16.707
Let's talk about the other side of that coin, which is a big thing to me when I consider it, which is team fit.

00:17:16.707 --> 00:17:17.251
How do we measure that stuff?

00:17:17.251 --> 00:17:18.814
Because for me it very much feels intuitive, and I'm an extreme extrovert.

00:17:18.814 --> 00:17:20.463
I love people, I'm always interacting with people and so I love people.

00:17:20.463 --> 00:17:23.147
So that is something that I always consider.

00:17:23.147 --> 00:17:29.026
How do we actually I don't know if we should quantify it how do we assess it in a way that actually makes sense?

00:17:29.026 --> 00:17:29.998
How?

00:17:30.018 --> 00:17:31.582
do we assess it in a way that actually makes sense?

00:17:31.582 --> 00:17:33.207
You put it on spot on, brian.

00:17:33.207 --> 00:17:47.210
Personalities is something that is very nebulous, and personality psychology, which is a field in and of itself, it is a valid discipline.

00:17:47.210 --> 00:17:52.169
I firmly believe that, and so does the scientific community.

00:17:52.169 --> 00:18:07.064
Personality psychology has its role, but any personality psychologist will tell you that, when it comes to quantifying or measuring personality, you cannot put them into a box.

00:18:07.064 --> 00:18:14.494
You have to put them within a continuum box.

00:18:14.494 --> 00:18:15.377
You have to put them within a continuum.

00:18:15.377 --> 00:18:34.397
And so, when it comes to measuring team fit or the potential for team fit, some of the ways that you can do that rather than paying for a personality examination like the big five, referring to the big five dimensions of personality examination rather than doing that, what you could do is you could actually put them into a work-based scenario.

00:18:34.397 --> 00:19:01.569
So, for example, during the interview process, you could actually say listen, we need you to work with this group of people on this problem that we're currently facing, and then you would have a rating criteria that you would give to those individual team members and then, after the task is completed, those individual team members would then rate how this person fit within the overall team.

00:19:02.655 --> 00:19:18.297
Now, the problem with that is that teams are not something that are just one-offs, are not something that are just one-offs.

00:19:18.297 --> 00:19:30.423
They are established entities, meaning even though you have this person on one day, that's not really long enough to see how they fit over a period of time, and that's where something like a probationary period comes in.

00:19:30.423 --> 00:19:34.910
Probationary periods are part of the assessment period.

00:19:34.910 --> 00:19:43.605
You use those to leverage how well they're fitting with the team, and it's not just you who's doing that.

00:19:43.605 --> 00:19:45.923
It should also be that new employee.

00:19:45.923 --> 00:19:51.228
That employee should also be examining hey, do I really fit with this company?

00:19:51.228 --> 00:19:53.436
Is it more than just a paycheck?

00:19:53.436 --> 00:19:55.059
Am I looking forward to going to work?

00:19:55.059 --> 00:20:05.628
The incumbent of the job should also be using that probationary period to examine if they really mesh with your culture.

00:20:06.855 --> 00:20:09.786
Yeah, Jonathan, I love hearing your perspective on these things because this is rooted in your real life experiences.

00:20:09.786 --> 00:20:12.055
Obviously, we can talk about perspective on these things because this is rooted in your real life experiences.

00:20:12.055 --> 00:20:28.740
Obviously, we can talk about all the great things you're doing with Sofra, but even before then you've been within the world of HR, seeing all different sides of the table, and so I want to ask you this Hearing you say the word like probationary period sometimes that has a negative connotation in English of probation oh, you're on thin ice.

00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:35.704
What can we do as business leaders to set our new people up for success within that probationary period?

00:20:35.704 --> 00:20:37.070
What do the check-ins look like?

00:20:37.070 --> 00:20:39.598
What do the resources look like to set them up for success?

00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:48.320
You know, the number one thing that you can do to set them up for success is show them the pathway for success.

00:20:48.320 --> 00:20:57.476
So many business owners, when they hire a person, they assume that that person is static.

00:20:57.476 --> 00:21:00.520
People are not static.

00:21:00.520 --> 00:21:16.597
People want to be challenged, they want to grow, and so if you equip them with the tools they need to chart their own course within your company, that is the number one driver for success.

00:21:16.597 --> 00:21:18.823
So what do I mean by that?

00:21:18.823 --> 00:21:37.230
I mean use the job analysis to create a training plan so that you put them on that plan from day one, and then you use the job analysis to create a pathway of career.

00:21:37.230 --> 00:21:58.025
So the job analysis what's great about it and what's great about our software, is that we not only identify that particular role, we show them how that role interacts with all the other roles so they can chart their course from whatever position they start at to another position within the company.

00:21:58.025 --> 00:22:00.696
That is how you drive success.

00:22:01.318 --> 00:22:12.165
And then what will happen is during that probation or trial period that will fly by, because that person won't think of it as they're being judged.

00:22:12.165 --> 00:22:16.837
They'll truly look at it as okay.

00:22:16.837 --> 00:22:17.839
This is for me.

00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:23.388
Do I see myself staying with this company, or do I not?

00:22:23.388 --> 00:22:33.029
And yeah, it's a paradigm shift in how you think of that period, but that's really how business owners should approach it.

00:22:33.029 --> 00:22:43.224
It is crucial, it is very crucial, but usually within the course of three months you'll know whether or not a person is a good fit or not.

00:22:44.214 --> 00:22:46.180
Yeah, jonathan, you talk about paradigm shifts.

00:22:46.180 --> 00:23:05.710
That's really how I feel about your approach to all of this stuff is you're talking about the most intimate part of our businesses, which is the people behind them, but we're taking a really scientific and experience backed approach, combined with technology, to set everybody up for success on all aspects of it.

00:23:05.710 --> 00:23:10.266
That's a different approach, jonathan, because it has been such a human backed approach.

00:23:10.266 --> 00:23:13.402
Different approach, jonathan, because it has been such a human-backed approach.

00:23:13.402 --> 00:23:21.446
Talk to us about the reception there, because obviously AI is interrupting a lot of different industries, but what's the reaction been to a technology-backed approach to HR?

00:23:22.494 --> 00:23:24.721
You want to know what the reaction has been.

00:23:24.721 --> 00:23:26.405
The reaction has been.

00:23:26.405 --> 00:23:30.055
Why should I bother when I can go to Google?

00:23:30.075 --> 00:23:35.856
Why should I bother when I can go to Google and I'll never forget.

00:23:35.856 --> 00:23:47.021
I came across a McKinsey study and it said that 90% of surveyed businesses and their sample size was 3,500 businesses.

00:23:47.021 --> 00:23:57.465
So 90% of those businesses said they couldn't find qualified candidates for their jobs and yet virtually all of them Googled.

00:23:57.465 --> 00:24:01.126
And I'm like there's the problem.

00:24:01.126 --> 00:24:04.147
Why aren't you fixing the problem?

00:24:04.147 --> 00:24:07.189
Google is not the answer.

00:24:07.189 --> 00:24:31.339
You need to take the time to analyze what your work, what your organization truly needs, and then use that information to get the people to communicate to the people who want to work.

00:24:31.339 --> 00:24:35.788
Communicate to them what they really need to do, and it solves itself.

00:24:35.788 --> 00:24:37.196
It really does.

00:24:40.344 --> 00:25:05.290
There was a period of time where I was out of work for six months and I remember coming across some job announcements that were like 15 years experience and I'm like the scientific literature only says that at most two years of experience actually has any positive impact on the job and job performance.

00:25:05.290 --> 00:25:08.064
So why are you asking for 15 years?

00:25:08.064 --> 00:25:18.009
I saw one job announcement that said we want you to have a degree from a top tier school.

00:25:18.009 --> 00:25:23.606
How does that have any bearing on the job and whether or not you can do the job?

00:25:23.606 --> 00:25:48.869
So we are so caught up in the way we've always done job announcements and looking and recruiting for people that we've forgotten the number one basic thing, which is you first have to identify what you need in order to articulate that need.

00:25:48.869 --> 00:25:54.287
It's just, it's mind boggling to me, absolutely mind boggling.

00:25:54.734 --> 00:25:58.546
I so share those feelings about all of that stuff, jonathan.

00:25:58.546 --> 00:26:01.788
To your point about years of experience, I remember.

00:26:01.788 --> 00:26:06.445
So I only worked in corporate for 10 months after I graduated, because I started my first business when I was 19.

00:26:06.445 --> 00:26:09.986
And so in the corporate world I was an entrepreneur already.

00:26:09.986 --> 00:26:12.323
I was doing all of the things and figuring them out.

00:26:12.383 --> 00:26:22.946
As I went and in corporate I saw people who would say I've been here for 20 years and this is the way we do things, and I thought to myself you've done the same thing 20 years in a row.

00:26:22.946 --> 00:26:25.624
Like you have one year of experience 20 times over.

00:26:25.624 --> 00:26:29.144
So I love the fact that you so comfortably call these things out.

00:26:29.144 --> 00:26:41.810
Jonathan, I want to switch gears a little bit, because here in these conversations, I love talking not only to you as a subject matter expert, but you're also a business owner, you're also one of us as a fellow entrepreneur, and so I'm going to totally put you on the spot.

00:26:41.810 --> 00:26:54.361
Listeners, jonathan, had no idea I was going to bring this up in today's conversation, but I know that you're also a classically trained vocalist and listeners are probably benefiting from the fact that you've got that smooth, buttery audio here in today's episode.

00:26:54.842 --> 00:26:58.387
But, also, you've've been in several theatrical productions.

00:26:58.387 --> 00:27:04.938
So, jonathan, you might be wondering why I'm bringing this up, and my question to you is you learn things from those experiences.

00:27:04.938 --> 00:27:11.085
It gives you different perspectives, and all of those things also translate into life and translate into business.

00:27:11.085 --> 00:27:18.520
What are some of those ingredients and experiences that have translated to life as an entrepreneur and given you fresh perspectives from that?

00:27:19.902 --> 00:27:34.363
One of the most primary lessons learned in all of those experiences was the power of connection and the power of emotion to connect with people.

00:27:34.363 --> 00:27:41.571
You may come from a totally different background, but our emotions are universal.

00:27:41.571 --> 00:27:53.376
You feel anger, you feel sadness, you feel frustration, you feel hopelessness, you feel more.

00:27:53.376 --> 00:28:03.651
The gamut of human emotional experience is so vast and multiplicative in terms of how we experience this world.

00:28:03.651 --> 00:28:15.510
And so I took that lesson as an entrepreneur because I truly want to make the world of work better for everyone.

00:28:15.510 --> 00:28:20.426
We spend too much time at work for it to be a fucking cluster.

00:28:20.426 --> 00:28:30.256
We need it to be an enjoyable experience, and all of us, emotionally, are tired of the same old, same old.

00:28:30.256 --> 00:28:46.266
We're frustrated that in order to have an entry-level job, you need three to five years experience, and connecting with people through those emotions is, I'm hoping will be the catalyst for change.

00:28:46.266 --> 00:28:48.556
We've got to change the world of work.

00:28:48.556 --> 00:28:49.858
We just got to.

00:28:50.800 --> 00:28:52.223
Yes, amen to that.

00:28:52.223 --> 00:28:54.307
Truer words have never been spoken.

00:28:54.307 --> 00:29:01.607
So I love the fact that, in your role, you've already talked about teaming up with different developers and obviously building Sofra into what it is today.

00:29:01.607 --> 00:29:05.830
It's a very cool SaaS product that is changing the world in those positive ways.

00:29:05.830 --> 00:29:09.045
How has it lived up, or has it lived up to expectations?

00:29:09.045 --> 00:29:13.200
What are some ingredients of the entrepreneurial journey that have surprised you along the way?

00:29:14.182 --> 00:29:23.603
One of the things that surprised me the most was all the roadblocks that come out of nowhere, I mean.

00:29:23.603 --> 00:29:32.346
So one of the things is it's a cloud-based software as a service, and I was like, how the hell are we going to get to the cloud?

00:29:32.346 --> 00:29:44.566
And I was very fortunate to stumble across Microsoft's Founders Hub and I applied for it and, lo and behold, we got the credits we needed to put it into the cloud.

00:29:44.566 --> 00:29:46.521
I was like, thank you.

00:29:46.521 --> 00:29:49.022
So that was one obstacle.

00:29:49.022 --> 00:30:02.096
The other obstacle is job analysis has so many methodologies, so many methodologies, methodologies, so many methodologies.

00:30:02.096 --> 00:30:04.785
And so the programmers, my co-founders, came to me and were like, how are we going to do all these methodologies?

00:30:04.785 --> 00:30:10.299
So we had to prioritize which methods to use in our product.

00:30:10.299 --> 00:30:18.602
And so we narrowed it down to two, and we're just starting out with those two, and that's one thing.

00:30:18.602 --> 00:30:24.962
And then I threw them a curveball and I was like, well, you do realize that.

00:30:24.962 --> 00:30:31.117
You know you use job analysis to determine pay for positions, right?

00:30:31.117 --> 00:30:33.480
And they were like, excuse me.

00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:40.990
And so I mean just one obstacle after another, after another, just developing the product.

00:30:40.990 --> 00:30:42.290
It's just crazy.

00:30:44.476 --> 00:30:53.369
And then the other obstacle, though, the biggest one, and I think, one that's common to all entrepreneurs everywhere is funding, getting funding.

00:30:53.369 --> 00:31:00.127
And when you're bootstrapping which is what we're doing, it can be very difficult.

00:31:00.127 --> 00:31:23.910
And when you try and partner with investors whether they're angel investors, venture capitalists, whatever that becomes a difficulty in and of itself too, because most of the time, those investors want to see traction, but when you're building the plane as it's being flown, it's kind of difficult to show traction.

00:31:23.910 --> 00:31:26.061
I mean, come on.

00:31:26.061 --> 00:31:47.523
So those are the primary obstacles, and what I want to encourage everyone to really do is this Start with your network, start with those people who are close to you, and then work out, because you have a great idea.

00:31:47.523 --> 00:31:50.036
Don't let anyone shit on your idea.

00:31:50.036 --> 00:31:52.199
You have a great idea.

00:31:52.199 --> 00:31:59.990
Just start from those closest to you and work out, and the greatness of that idea will act as a magnet.

00:31:59.990 --> 00:32:03.503
So yeah, sorry I went on a little tangent there.

00:32:03.755 --> 00:32:05.580
No, it's really well said, jonathan.

00:32:05.580 --> 00:32:06.625
This is the real stuff.

00:32:06.625 --> 00:32:12.424
That's why listeners have come to know and love the show is because guests like you bring the real stuff, no filters.

00:32:12.424 --> 00:32:15.144
It's things that all of us entrepreneurs go through.

00:32:15.144 --> 00:32:25.450
So I so appreciate that transparency and just calling it like it is and hearing you talk about the world of investing and what investors are looking for, I'm just like it's another industry ripe for the picking.

00:32:25.450 --> 00:32:33.979
The same things that you're doing and saying within the world of HR could all be applied to the world of investment and VCs and seed money and all of that good stuff.

00:32:33.979 --> 00:32:36.064
So, jonathan, I appreciate those insights.

00:32:36.064 --> 00:32:38.429
I don't know how you're going to top it for my final question.

00:32:38.429 --> 00:32:42.686
I always love asking guests this broad question because you can take it in any direction that you want.

00:32:42.686 --> 00:32:45.924
And that is what's your one best piece of advice or takeaway?

00:32:45.924 --> 00:32:49.974
Knowing that listeners are tuning in at all different stages of their growth journey.

00:32:49.974 --> 00:32:53.685
What's that one thing that you hope they walk away from today's episode with?

00:33:04.295 --> 00:33:04.535
episode with.

00:33:04.535 --> 00:33:06.598
We, as entrepreneurs, have a calling to change the worlds in which we live.

00:33:06.598 --> 00:33:07.019
And those worlds?

00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:08.221
They are different in scope.

00:33:08.221 --> 00:33:15.938
They are small to medium to large to gargantuan, it doesn't matter.

00:33:15.938 --> 00:33:20.167
We have a calling to change this world for the better.

00:33:20.167 --> 00:33:33.967
It's incidental that we have monetary and financial success through our ideas, but if we continue to change the world for the better, everyone benefits.

00:33:33.967 --> 00:33:38.884
That rising tide lifts all ships, and so I don't want you to lose hope.

00:33:38.884 --> 00:33:45.954
I don't want you to lose hope at all, because we are arcing towards a better future together.

00:33:45.954 --> 00:33:52.146
One problem at a time, one entrepreneur at a time, one company at a time.

00:33:52.146 --> 00:33:56.242
So, yes, that's what I want people to take away from us.

00:33:57.016 --> 00:34:00.347
Yes, jonathan, you are so preaching to the choir here.

00:34:00.347 --> 00:34:12.876
You and I for sure are biased, but, entrepreneurs, we are the vehicles through which we can reshape the world and society and industries, and I so love that perspective and really appreciate those words of encouragement for our listeners.

00:34:12.876 --> 00:34:20.862
And if they want to go deeper into all the amazing and brilliant work that you and your team are up to with Sofra, drop those links on us.

00:34:20.862 --> 00:34:22.146
Where should they go from here?

00:34:23.315 --> 00:34:26.621
So number one thing is reach out to us on LinkedIn.

00:34:26.621 --> 00:34:29.228
We are on LinkedIn, follow us.

00:34:29.228 --> 00:34:55.889
We haven't lately because of the hurricane, but we frequently drop blogs that are evidence-based HR and they are filled with tools that you can use and leverage and also look out in the future, because when we open our product up for beta testing, we're going to ask everyone to come in.

00:34:55.889 --> 00:35:00.577
We're going to ask everyone to come in.

00:35:00.577 --> 00:35:08.144
Break our system, show us where we need to improve, because we're aiming for a 2025 launch, public launch, and there are so many businesses who need our help.

00:35:08.144 --> 00:35:11.103
So, yes, follow us on LinkedIn, it'd be great.

00:35:12.076 --> 00:35:16.447
Yes, listeners, that's actually how we came across all of the work that Jonathan and his team are up to.

00:35:16.447 --> 00:35:20.088
So if you want to be early there, you're going to be part of the change.

00:35:20.088 --> 00:35:28.818
Not only is Jonathan changing the world, but the more real life users and businesses who are on board, the quicker that development and really innovation happens.

00:35:28.818 --> 00:35:32.235
So don't be shy, no matter where it is that you're tuning into today's episode.

00:35:32.235 --> 00:35:34.800
We're dropping those links down below in the show notes.

00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:36.822
You'll find a link to Sofra's LinkedIn.

00:35:36.822 --> 00:35:39.106
You'll find a link to Jonathan's personal LinkedIn.

00:35:39.106 --> 00:35:43.041
If you want to continue the conversation with him, we're also linking to Sofra's website.

00:35:43.041 --> 00:35:46.635
So definitely check the show notes down below and just click right on through.

00:35:46.635 --> 00:35:49.344
You don't have to remember any of those here while we're on the air.

00:35:49.344 --> 00:35:54.947
And Jonathan, on behalf of myself and all the listeners worldwide, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

00:35:55.755 --> 00:35:57.260
Thank you for the opportunity.

00:35:57.260 --> 00:35:58.123
It was great.

00:35:59.235 --> 00:36:04.746
Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:36:04.746 --> 00:36:08.755
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:36:08.755 --> 00:36:15.530
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom.

00:36:15.530 --> 00:36:19.090
And I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests at thewantrepreneurshowcom.

00:36:19.090 --> 00:36:20.295
And I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:36:20.295 --> 00:36:26.782
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:36:26.894 --> 00:36:28.842
These are not sponsored episodes.

00:36:28.842 --> 00:36:30.420
These are not infomercials.

00:36:30.420 --> 00:36:33.925
Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.

00:36:33.925 --> 00:36:44.896
They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.

00:36:44.896 --> 00:36:53.385
So thank you to not only today's guests but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you, check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.

00:36:53.385 --> 00:36:54.735
We also have live chat.

00:36:54.735 --> 00:36:59.342
If you want to interact directly with me, go to the the wantrepreneurshowcom.

00:36:59.342 --> 00:37:00.764
Initiate a live chat.

00:37:00.764 --> 00:37:10.190
It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you as always every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.