810: Championing FemTech and the future of healthcare w/ Kate C. Arnold

Speaker 1:
0:00

Hey, what is up? Welcome to this episode of the Wontropner to entrepreneur podcast. As always, I'm your host, brian LoFromanto. In today's episode, we've got an entrepreneur that is incredible at everything that she does. She is a do it all. She's someone who's going to raise the bar for us imagining our own lives and what's possible for us to work on and, most importantly, what's possible for us to make a huge positive impact on the world and in our industries, because today's guest is not only an MD. She is a practicing medical professional, but she's also helping to change the medical profession and industry on an entrepreneurial level. So let me tell you a little bit about today's guest.

Speaker 1:
0:39

Her name is Kate C Arnold. Like I said, she's got her MD. She's got her MBA. She's from California Originally.

Speaker 1:
0:46

She attended college at Santa Clara University. She then attended medical school at Georgetown, followed by her OBGYN residency at the University of Oklahoma. She has worked as an assistant professor at OU, then as the director of women's health at a federally qualified health center. She then earned her MBA. She now works as a laborist, which gives her time to do startup work and to hang out with her wife and their children and, on an entrepreneurial front, I love her company, what her and her business partner up to at FEM innovation, where they provide resources for FEM tech founders to work with clinicians, health equity consultants and investors to make their companies more accurate, more equitable and more successful. This is someone who has her hands in so many different pots, all to make a positive impact. She's going to raise the bar for us today, so I'm not going to say anything else. Let's dive straight into my interview with Kate C Arnold. Alright, kate, so many amazing things that we're going to dive into today, but first things first.

Speaker 2:
1:47

Welcome to the show, thank you and thank you for that introduction. It was very complimentary. I hope I live up to it Well.

Speaker 1:
1:53

I don't know how you do all the things you do, and I'm excited to hear about that here today. But before we get there, take us beyond the bio. Who the heck is Kate? How did you start doing all these amazing things you're doing, from medicine to business? Tell us that backstory.

Speaker 2:
2:09

Well, I think, you know, I grew up in Silicon Valley in California and so I grew up kind of around the dot com boom and all the startups and everything, and so I think that has really stayed with me and that that kind of desire to do things a little bit differently and to take risks and see if something new can work. I've always liked that mentality. And then what I decided to do medicine everybody was trying to like. Well, risk taking isn't really a good thing here, and so I didn't take a lot of risks. And then I think COVID was really kind of what pushed me over.

Speaker 2:
2:47

You know, they say never waste, never let a good crisis go to waste, and that was definitely the case for me. I got to see how implementation of technology can be amazing and it can also be not so good. You know, we see a lot of technology now that isn't clinically accurate and it is really aimed at helping people who truly already have really good resources, the upper socioeconomic status, people who have the money to have good resources, and so when I look at all of that, I really saw an area that I could be passionate about, kind of bringing that that dot com past from literally my childhood, together with with wanting to implement technology in a way that helps patients and all patients.

Speaker 1:
3:33

Yeah, I love that overview and it's really interesting how you woven in it's. It's really come full circle with your childhood of growing up in Silicon Valley. And I also am fascinated, kate, by the way that you use the term risk and there's so much perceived risk in everything that we do. As a life long entrepreneur, I'm going on one of my 16 years into my entrepreneurial journey and ever since I was 19, people are always like, oh, that's so risky to start your business. And you're right.

Speaker 1:
3:57

I think that the global pandemic showed us in so many ways what's risky and what's not risky and, spoiler alert, I think everything's risky. People who had long nine to five careers found themselves furloughed or laid off, or a lot of industries that have dramatically changed. Talk to us about that element of risk and how you've gauged that along the way, because going to medical school is risky. That's so many years, that's. It's a high cost, high financial burden. There's obviously so much that goes into it very long hours. Talk to us about that balance of risk, both medically, entrepreneurially. I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 2:
4:34

Yeah, it's interesting, you know, growing up. So my, my dad, worked for IBM for like 25 years but he always had this very strong desire to take a lot of risk. He literally like trades all his stocks on 10% margin. He is kind of a day trader and has been incredibly successful with it. My mom, meanwhile, is much more conservative. She is a novelist but also does some ghostwriting and literally goes through one of Charles Schwab's books and so she is much more like by the book. Like you should have have money in the bank and all that kind of stuff. My dad just has everything at 10% margin.

Speaker 2:
5:13

So I grew up kind of seeing those two sides and really understanding that both sides have a have a place. You know, there there's a time to be risky and there's a time to have a good plan. That is a little bit more foolproof Medicine, I think it is risky. Risky, but there's also it's a very straight and narrow path. Like you know, if you study for the test and you work hard, that you're going to have a career. That's, that's steady, that's respected, that's that you're always going to have a job. People are always going to want to have babies and need help, and so in that aspect it doesn't feel risky. Now, there definitely are parts of medicine that feel risky you know, surgeries always risky, those kinds of things but the actual career path, honestly, for me, did not feel risky.

Speaker 2:
5:59

One of the moments that kind of really exemplified for me how much I enjoy the risk side is actually when my wife and I were first married. We went to a financial counselor for, you know, retirement planning and all that, and they had us do one of these risk assessments and so it was just like question after question of like you have $500, you can, you know, essentially bet or place an investment for $250 with a 10% chance that you double your money or a 90% chance that you lose it all. I was like risk, risk, risk, risk, risk. And my wife was like put it under the mattress, put it under the mattress. So that really kind of was my first honestly external input of like oh, there is, there is something about risk that I really enjoy.

Speaker 2:
6:48

And then even in my MBA we had to do this driver's assessment and it again said that I really enjoyed some some risk taking behavior. And even my MBA professor was like how is this a good thing? And a doctor. But I do think that you know the the downfall of OBGYNs in general, and probably physicians in general, is that we do get very focused on like this is the standard of care, this is how you do things, and it it takes someone who is Okay with risk to try a different approach and to try something else. There are so many things in medicine that need more innovative treatments, that need more innovative processes, and so I think that has been helpful for me and kind of merging that, that place where it's good to take risks in medicine, because it aids in improvement.

Speaker 1:
7:37

Yeah gosh, I really enjoy that overview and the fact that you've balanced those two ways that of your childhood Upringing, seeing it in your mom, seeing it in your dad, and then, as an adult, I love that real life story with you and your wife planning for retirement. I think it's such a clear indicator that I think a lot of us entrepreneurs will say, well, yeah, there's no upside, that's not very fun for me, and so I think that it lends itself naturally to you doing your Entrepreneurial work. And I love what you and Bethany are up to at FEM innovation, because you've obviously you've been on the front lines. You are a doctor and you've seen what health care is like and you've seen the technology that supports you and the technology that may not support you, the way that companies had initially hoped. So walk us through that origin story of how you identified that gap in the marketplace. You said I actually I don't just identify this, I want to be part of the solution here.

Speaker 2:
8:27

I think so much of it is seeing Patients in clinic. You know, I think I think for OBGYNs or for physicians wanting to get into Some of this FEM tech, I think it is really useful to at least do a little bit of clinical work, because there's nothing like being on the front lines and seeing how things play out. And, like you said, brian, there's a lot of times where something sounds like a great idea and then you try it in clinic and you're like well, that went terrible. So the the two aspects that I saw, one I mentioned a little bit, but telehealth in the pandemic Everyone thought like oh, this is gonna be this great Equalizer. Everyone will have equal access to telehealth. The people who, you know, have shift work, jobs, have hourly wages, they can't get out of work to come to a prenatal care appointment now they have that option. Or this person who lives rural you know they did blood tests. They don't need to drive three hours to hear the results of their blood tests. I can do that on video.

Speaker 2:
9:23

And what we saw was that that was very naive, that there were Systems and biases in place that really still funneled telehealth to patients with resources who, in Some ways you could say, didn't need the telehealth as much, so it was nice for them to have, but it wasn't that like drastic improvement in care and Increase in access to care that you could have had if you had implemented it better. So what I took away from that is that and Probably should have known this originally but it really solidified the equity does not happen by accident. You can't just have a good idea and think that it'll automatically increase equity. It has to be intentional. So when I got with Bethany, that was one of the things that we really looked at, and so we have health equity Consultants on our platform who can help, and I have learned so much from them. They have really, you know, in health equity consultants. I kind of thought of it of okay, you should definitely have a health equity consultant when you were starting your company, when you're really laying out how the product is Going to work, how you're going to market it great opportunity for a health equity consultant.

Speaker 2:
10:31

The second area that I saw was hey, you know, you may be started with this self-pay B2C model where you were catering to upper SES patients because that's, you know, you needed to charge money, you needed to have it be out of pocket and that's the patient population that you got at first, but then, ultimately, everybody's goal is to get in with insurances and with hospital systems, and so when you make that transition, you're really serving an entirely different patient population. That's another great opportunity for a health equity consultant. Our health equity consultants taught me that another opportunity to Really lean on them for support and for training is actually when you're leaving a population, and that was just eye-opening to me that you know your grant runs out or your contract runs out and you're all of a sudden leaving that patient population that you need to leave in a way that's going to keep that trust in your company stable, because if you lose that trust on your first go-round, it's going to be really, really tough to ever earn it back. So, talking with Bethany, that's something that she's passionate about as well, and so we've been able to do that on our platform.

Speaker 2:
11:42

Bethany actually Bethany Corbin is my co-founder. She's an attorney and has been in FemTech for years. We got together and she had really done a lot of the groundwork at looking at how inaccurate many of these FemTech apps are, and to me as a clinician, that Created a lot of problems because you know, unfortunately in COVID we already struggle a little bit with patient trust, especially when I was practicing in a red state. So to have patients read things on apps and then have it be not accurate really put me behind the eight balls of physician. You know, if they come in believing something and I have to dismantle that, it's really hard to to establish that trust in me versus an app, and so from that standpoint, I was like you know, we've got to get clinicians more involved.

Speaker 2:
12:30

From the FemTech perspective too, I think that If clinicians are not willing to get involved and really help improve these apps, I think we're gonna end up being vilified, whether it's right or wrong, because Founders in FemTech are working to fix problems that clinicians already know about. In my mind, clinicians are incredibly overwhelmed and are just trying to tread water and visits that are 15 minutes and in baskets with messages from patients, and so I understand that. I think, unfortunately, a lot of the public thinks that physicians are not fixing problems because we're apathetic or worse. So to me and to Bethany it was kind of this perfect storm of like okay, we have to get clinicians involved with founders earlier on to really preserve the integrity of this field.

Speaker 1:
13:20

Yeah, it's really interesting hearing you especially talk about this, kate, because you're right, this really is the intersection of so many different industries but also considerations. I mean, I'm hearing a lot of different conversations all within one conversation, which is we're talking healthcare, we're talking tech, we're talking business. When you raise the points of, hey, you know, we've all been involved in healthcare enough to see the ugly insurance side of the world. And then you and I, the one thing that we have in common is we both lived in California. In California, I think, is such an interesting case study in, you've got the super rich that anything is at their disposal. They can get their hands on literally the best in class, not just within healthcare, but anything. And then we have so many underserved populations, whether it's the homeless population in California, whether it's the immigrant populations there's so many different pockets that, ideally, what I love about your story, kate, and what I really admire about your journey, is you are a physician who is committed to being part of that change and part of that solution.

Speaker 1:
14:21

But it does take all of those different considerations, and so that's why, with all of that preface that I just threw out there, I love that guests know, or listeners know that we always ask our guests what is your zone of genius? And I love your answer to that question, kate, where you said I'm good at listening to people, in understanding how I can be useful in their sphere. Now I'm just thinking about all the tech entrepreneurs out there that want to apply technology to solve problems because, as you said, in theory, tech can reach everybody. I'm a big believer in tech. I think tech, in so many ways, has the potential to be the great equalizer, but you have such an interesting and unique vantage point with your clinician hat on, with your entrepreneurial hat on and business hat on. Why are there these divides? How do we start bridging those gaps? Because you've already expressed your belief clinicians need to be more involved in it. How do we actually get to the solution that I think we all want at the end of the day?

Speaker 2:
15:18

I mean I think part of the solution is just exactly what you said. I think we have to acknowledge that we are all trying to address the same problem and I think if you can get everybody on that same page, I mean that's like leadership 101 is just making sure that everyone understands like, hey, this is a problem. Let's just start from like a really zoomed out picture. We have terrible health education in this country. It's not being well taught in schools. That is no fault of the teachers. That is a lot of government regulations and a lot of just showing our priorities, but health is not well taught in schools. Those kids don't graduate understanding a period or how to get pregnant or what pregnancy is like. So we start out behind the eight ball Then with physicians, like I said, they're struggling with 15 minute visits of how do you cram all of this sex ed or what a normal pregnancy is like into 15 minutes?

Speaker 2:
16:20

And then you look at it from the founder's perspective and the founders, as you know, a lot of times have personal stories behind why they're starting their companies right. A lot of times a family member didn't receive good care, or they didn't receive good care, or they just felt like it was fragmented or not ideal, all these things that lead them to try to fix the problem, and I think the danger in that is them thinking that they're on their own, and I think what we need to do from a tech business, patient founders perspective is just say you know what. We all know. This is a problem, like we all know that postpartum care is not ideal. We all know that the treatments for endometriosis are not ideal. We all know these things, and so let's really come at it from the perspective of that. We all want to fix the same problems and acknowledge that we need everyone's help to come up with viable solutions. No one can do it by themselves.

Speaker 1:
17:15

Yes, gosh, do I love that. It's something that I want to echo here. Kate, and I'm a big believer. We're obviously talking within the health and the femtex space, but we can really extrapolate this onto everything. I think this is obviously a core belief of our show is that the more conversations we have, the more voices, the more people, the more vantage points we bring into it, the better we all are, and so obviously, it's why I am so appreciative of our guests to have these open and honest and transparent conversations here for thousands of people all around the world. But it's also why I particularly love what you and Bethany are building with Femm Innovator.

Speaker 1:
17:48

The word that I love about your work is that you guys call it a platform In our platform today where there's startup acceleration. In there you have the clinician and scientific community. So if I'm a femtex founder and I actually want voices like yours, vantage points like yours that lives inside of there, as well as, obviously, the partnerships bringing people together, talk to us about that Cause I think it's so brilliant. I know, obviously, knowing you even the little, that I already do, but I know how intentional you are about the way that you want to bring these solutions to the table. How have you laid that out to really encompass these things that we're talking about here today?

Speaker 2:
18:28

That's a great question. So we view our platform, like you said, as a space where people can come and collaborate. One of the things that I love about founders is they say bring me your problems. And in some ways, that's what we want for our platform. We want everyone to come with their problems and then we want to have all these diverse viewpoints helping with solutions. We 100% do not want to be another social media Like. I don't want to see any like happy Friday posts or anything like that. I think we all get enough of that.

Speaker 2:
18:58

So our platform is really meant to be hey, I'm stuck on when do I bring a clinician and how do I do that? Can I afford it? What questions do I even ask them? Or I'm stuck on funding, Cause anybody have any resources. Or I have a big pitch on Monday. Does anybody know any resources that can help me with updating my pitch deck and making sure that I'm putting my best foot forward? So we really view it as a place where founders, clinicians, scientists, health equity consultants can come together and make the products better. That is our ultimate goal. We have a low price point. We think it's $100 a month. There's no equity, and so you know, if you kind of think of it as a graph where you know you can have, like, the accelerators or the hubs or the studios that are going to charge a lot of equity and really provide a lot of that mentoring, that's not us. Ours is a very, very low price point and it just gives you access to all of the resources you need to bootstrap it and make your company better.

Speaker 1:
20:02

Yeah, I love that overview and obviously love the fact that it's really rooted in the word that you said. I think it's the magic word here today is that collaboration of bringing people together. I just think that's such at the core of it, because the more we talk about the femtex sphere, the more I really realize it's actually impossible probably to grow a femtex company, a startup, without that external input. How the heck do you think you're going to do it without the right clinicians in your corner, without the right consultants who have seen all different sides of healthcare in your corner? And so, with that said, we've obviously talked about some of the challenges facing femtex founders, but for listeners who may not be familiar with the space case, I'd love for you to.

Speaker 1:
20:44

It's a two part question. One, paint the picture of what is the femtex space. You talked about some of the apps that are out there. Maybe period trackers, for example, lay us the groundwork of what that landscape looks like today. And then, more importantly, what I'm super curious to hear your perspective on, because I think you're uniquely positioned to speak on this, is the direction of that industry. I, as someone who's optimistic about tech, I think that there's so many amazing things coming down the line, so I'm curious to see the the pretty picture of what it's going to look like in the future.

Speaker 2:
21:16

That's a great question. So femtex is really just female technology. It's any company that's aimed at kind of female health issues and using technology to ameliorate those issues. It has a wide variety. There's great resources on the internet about kind of everything it entails. Some of the more common ones, as you mentioned, are going to be around kind of period tractors administration, a lot of resources around pregnancy and then kind of the. The newer one would be around menopause. I did forget to mention fertility. Fertility has been a big one since the beginning.

Speaker 2:
21:50

In terms of the future, I think femtex is really going to have a very interesting interaction with value based care and I know this is an entrepreneur podcast so I'm not sure how familiar everyone is with that term but essentially CMS, which is the Center for Medicaid and Medicare, they almost always are the ones that implement changes in billing and payouts first, and then private insurers follow them eventually. So CMS is looking to implement value based care and essentially what it means is that instead of rewarding clinics and hospitals for their services so at its very rudimentary option like I saw a pregnant patient for one visit they're going to give my clinic $200. It would now be that clinics and hospitals are invested in outcomes for that patient. So there's going to be a lot more risk on the part of the hospital and clinic. They're going to be a lot more literally invested in the outcomes of their patients. Hopefully that's going to give hospitals and clinics a lot more flexibility in how they provide care and femtex should really be able to step up and do really well in that space.

Speaker 2:
23:05

I believe in the future.

Speaker 2:
23:07

So, for example, there's a lot of apps looking at treatment of chronic pelvic pain.

Speaker 2:
23:13

If you think about chronic pelvic pain right now maybe I see a patient in clinic and I refer her for an ultrasound, a visit with a GI doctor, a visit with a Urogyne doctor or a MIGS doctor all these specialists right, and every specialist they go to they're going to have one visit, some treatment, a follow up visit and potentially more tests.

Speaker 2:
23:35

That is incredibly expensive and it may be that that patient could be better served by some of these new femtex apps that are looking at hey, what if we do cognitive behavioral therapy, some dietary changes, some physical therapy at home over a 12 week course on an app? What can that do? And I think eventually clinics and hospitals are going to be able to look at that and say you know what that helped? You know even 50% of our patients. They came back in three months and we only ended up having to make all those referrals for 50% of our patients. That's a huge win financially. So that's my hope for the future is that there will be a lot of help available online, like you said, available to all patients, that we can implement it equitably and really get patients better faster through Femtex.

Speaker 1:
24:28

Yeah, I really like that overview, especially because that example of a lot of people think we need a 100% success rate. Technology needs to solve it 100% of the time. The 50% that's huge. I love that real, tangible example from you, because that's really the target is to keep making progress in all of these areas.

Speaker 1:
24:47

I have to ask you last month we had Ryan Strong on the show, who is a longtime AI expert. This is someone who's been working on AI way before chat GPT came to the forefront. The way that he talked about Kate is. It's funny for me as someone who does love tech. Ryan really expressed some of the concerns and ethical considerations behind AI that made me pause and say wait, hold on. That's true. Ai will only ever give the outputs based on the input, so it's really scary of understanding what are those inputs. Talk to us about how AI is factoring into that, because it's funny. I think that we're going to see an increasing rate of new apps, whether they're healthcare related apps or any apps, because it's never been easier than before to just wrap a nice UI wrapper around chat GPT, for example, their API, which is usable to literally anyone, and just launch apps out there. What are your considerations for AI? How much is it something that you focus on at FemInnovation?

Speaker 2:
25:45

It is something we're focusing on. In fact, we have a webinar this week, literally, on FemTech and AI that Bethany is hosting. It's something that we're getting a lot of questions about. It's on the forefront of people's minds, I think I would agree. I mean it has good and bad. I think the scary part is that, like you said, oftentimes it's going to estimate answers based on inputs that it's received, as opposed to any like clinical guidelines from, you know, leading health organizations or from randomized controlled trials that physicians are going to look at to guide someone. So the areas where I've seen it be more useful is you know, it's always going to go hand in hand, right, it's never going to replace a provider, but I think it can go hand in hand.

Speaker 2:
26:34

There's a couple of areas that people are looking at. I think it has the potential to really help us identify those high risk patients ACOG, or American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, has really looked at. You know, if someone is high risk, this is the hospital they should deliver at, as opposed to this community hospital, and that by placing higher risk patients at centers that can handle that acuity, you can decrease maternal mortality rates. And so I think, if we look at it from some of those perspectives of you know AI can potentially tell you hey, this patient really really is high risk as opposed to this patient who can stay at the community health center. That could be helpful.

Speaker 2:
27:17

I think also there's things like fetal heart rate tracings are just a huge area of liability and consternation for OBGYNs. We watch the baby's heart rate and try to interpret that based on guidelines to tell us whether the baby's getting enough oxygen. We don't know yet if AI is going to be any better at that. I think there's a chance that it could be better at that, but that's an interesting area. Radiology is another area, so potentially is it going to be better or worse than a radiologist at looking at a chest x-ray. So I think there are lots of areas I am very, very hesitant about anything that lets AI do that interaction with the patient, because there is so much that goes into every patient interaction. That is truly like where the art of medicine is in those interactions and in establishing that trust, eliciting that history, motivational interviewing, making sure the patient buys into the treatment. So that's the area that I feel like AI should not be tackling.

Speaker 1:
28:22

Yeah, it's interesting. I actually feel very similarly that, as you, when it comes to AI within the scope of business is. I always tell people I'm like using it as an advisor, don't use it as the answer, use it as someone who can sit next to you. What I usually do in chat GPT is I'll say, hey, here's what I'm working on, whether it's an ad campaign or a marketing campaign and I'll say here's all the things I'm thinking about. What am I missing? That's always the question that I'll ask AI what am I missing? Because I use it as a sounding board and hearing you talk about it from a clinician's point of view as a patient, I'm just like I hope that's how it is used in healthcare is really as an advisor. What am I missing here? It's not the one that's going to make the decisions, but it is going to bring new things to light that maybe I did or didn't think about. So I love those insights.

Speaker 1:
29:08

Kate, I've got to ask you. Obviously, we've heard about you with your business hat on. We've heard about you with your medical hat on. But entrepreneur to entrepreneur, it's always a fun part of these conversations for me. How the heck do you manage your time? You've got a family, you've got medical practice, you've got your businesses that you're involved with. How the heck does Kate Arnold manage her time?

Speaker 2:
29:28

Oh, it's constantly in flux. I think I'm somebody who really enjoys being probably too busy. I remember at points where life was chaotic I would tell my grandma everything was happening and she would just kind of in her sing-songy voice say, well, you're not bored. I think to some point that's true that I really enjoy all the stimulation that every kind of different aspect gives me In terms of time management.

Speaker 2:
29:57

I have realized that one of the things that I despise and that burns me out almost instantaneously is having to be two places at once, and so that really stresses me out, and so even having like two competing priorities in the same moment. So I try to get much better at making sure that if I'm supposed to be doing one thing, that I'm doing that one thing, and that one thing can be like this podcast. But it can also be that you know what, that's the day my kids are out of school and so I can maybe do one meeting that day, but I'm not going to set myself up to have a chaotic day of trying to juggle kids and a bunch of meetings, and so I think really looking at what's reasonable and saying I do not want to have to be two places or two things at once is kind of how I look when I'm looking at my week to see if it's reasonable or if I need to reschedule some things.

Speaker 1:
30:53

Yeah, I love those real life insights. Listeners, I'm calling this out for you because obviously, I tutored Kate's horn at the top of today's episode about how many different things she's involved in and a lot of you might be thinking, oh, she's amazing at multitasking. But I think that right, there is a real life glimpse into focus on one thing. Now, you can focus on multiple things over the course of the day, but when you sit down to do something, say this is the one thing that I'm doing and I'm going to do it to the best of my ability. So, with your entrepreneurial hat on, kate, I love that real life insight into your thought process and how you manage your productivity.

Speaker 1:
31:25

I want to ask you this as well as we come towards the end of today's session with that entrepreneur hat still on, obviously you are taking a big bite into an industry that really could use a lot of help and it impacts literally every single one of us, not just here in the US, but around the entire world. With that in mind, and sticking to your entrepreneurial hat, what are some of those challenges that you didn't anticipate? That, now that you and Bethany are up and running, I love the fact that you all have your own podcast as well, to make a difference and have more of these conversations in public. But what are some of those things that, in this entrepreneurial journey already you've said, holy cow, I didn't anticipate this being an obstacle, or I didn't anticipate this being something that we'd also have to push up against on the path to change.

Speaker 2:
32:11

That's a great question, I think in terms of founders, I always kind of thought that if something was useful or needed, that that meant automatically that people would be willing to pay for it. And I think with founders, I didn't realize how kind of bootstrapped they were in terms of funds, and so now it's been kind of this interesting decision point of you know, if you have this amazing service, then how do you figure out exactly who's going to be willing and able to pay for it? And I think that's a large problem that we see in FemTech. Femtech has a huge percent risk of companies that fail, and I think, as females in general, we're taught and not all FemTech entrepreneurs are female, but I think, as females, there's a lot of this like internal document or internal dialogue of I can't fail because then I'm done.

Speaker 2:
33:16

And when I talk to male entrepreneurs, they oftentimes have the opposite outlook of like hey, you know, like this idea sucks, like that didn't work out. This was a great idea, but the funding didn't work out. So this is my third company and XYZ, and so I think part of what Bethany and I want to do is encourage FemTech founders to be willing to invest in themselves, because I think you have to be willing to ask for help. You know we've talked about the importance of collaboration, and collaboration is truly asking for help, asking for other perspectives, and so that is a long-winded answer, I realize, but I think looking at what's needed versus what can be paid for and who can pay for it is still something that Bethany and I are trying to sort out in terms of FemTech.

Speaker 1:
34:07

Yeah, no, okay, I'm going to call that out. That is for sure not long-winded. I love the fact that you're able to articulate and express those observations here in real time with us, because there's so many nuggets of important takeaways for all entrepreneurs there. The first thing that I really heard is, yeah, having something that everybody, universally we agree, we all need things like this that's not enough. That's why business isn't easy. Anyone expecting it to be easy and say, well, everybody needs.

Speaker 1:
34:34

I remember when I started my web design agency, kate, back in 2012,. Everyone needed new websites back in 2012. I was just like I can walk into a business and they'll immediately see, just look at how terrible their website is, or they don't even have one. That wasn't an easy sell. So I love that real life observation.

Speaker 1:
34:50

And then the second part. I think it's so important to put a smile on my face as you were saying it, because I do feel that masculine energy where we're just like, yeah, failure isn't fatal. It's just like, if anything, it's a challenge for us to do another thing and do it even better. So, having these conversations acknowledging these differences, I think it's really important and it's been such a fun conversation here today. Kate, I'm going to put you on the spot for our last question. I asked this to every guest because we talked about so many amazing things here today. What's that one takeaway for listeners who are maybe they're not in the Femtex space, they'll never be in the Femtex space, but healthcare is something that affects all of us, whichever angle you want to take this question. What's that one takeaway? What's the one thing for people who listen to our conversation today that you hope they think about, you hope they take action with and you hope that they really embrace as they embark on their own entrepreneurial journeys?

Speaker 2:
35:39

That's a great question. For me, it's taking the time to do big thinking and we talked about this a little bit in my MBA but it really kind of hit home that that time that I remember there was, they were talked about like some CEO who was like always be caught staring out the window. But taking that time to reflect on the bigger picture, I think is so important because that's when you can see those glaring things that you mentioned, like that AI can actually help with. But see that big picture of like oh my God, I missed this or oh my God, like I'm not taking this group into account, just that big picture, thinking that you'll never get by looking at your computer or looking at a computer screen answering emails. It's not going to happen. So, taking that time to really some people even say just space out, just sit with your thoughts, sit with what your company's doing, sit with your future plan and really just give your mind time to process it, to show you where you may need to make changes.

Speaker 1:
36:40

Yeah, I love that piece of advice, Kate. I think it's so appropriate and I think in the world of hustle culture, I'm starting to hear this advice more and more, and I think it's really powerful for all of us entrepreneurs Heck, even on a human level. I think it's so important for us to really zoom way out, get out of the weeds and ask ourselves what direction am I going in? It's like if we entered a destination into our GPS and then halfway through, that destination just changed. We need to make sure that we're always going in the right direction, and that doesn't happen by just taking turn by turn. It happens with that layer of intentionality. So I love that advice. I also so admire all the things that you're up to with your business and I know that you're involved in so many different things. So for listeners who want to go deeper into exploring your work and all the great things that you're doing, drop those links on us. Where should listeners go from here?

Speaker 2:
37:27

I think LinkedIn is probably the most reliable. I'm good at getting back to people on messages and it kind of lays out what we're trying to do at MInnovation. We'd love to have anybody join us. Like we said, our big thing is we want to collaborate, and so if you want to work with us, want to help founders, want to help clinicians, anything, just reach out. We really want to collaborate, so LinkedIn is probably best. Just Kate Sianl.

Speaker 1:
37:49

Yes, listeners, you already know the drill. We are dropping a link directly to Kate's LinkedIn down below in the show notes, wherever it is that you're tuning into today's episode. We're also dropping a link to the Femm Innovation website, which is just FemmInnovationcom, and if you were really intrigued by all the different perspectives that Kate shared with us here today, you heard her talk about they have webinars, they have a podcast, for example, so tune in there. You can find all those links at FemmInnovationcom, as well as Kate's personal LinkedIn, which we're linking to down below. So, kate, on behalf of myself and all the listeners around the world, thanks so much for being so generous and insightful with us here today on the podcast.

Speaker 2:
38:27

Thank you for your time and for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:
38:30

Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wontropner to Entrepreneur podcast. If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there. Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewontrapnershowcom, and I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests. There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

Speaker 1:
38:57

These are not sponsored episodes. These are not infomercials. Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions. They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome Wontropners and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible. So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there. We also have live chat. If you want to interact directly with me, go to thewontrapnershowcom. Initiate a live chat. It's for real me and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wontrapner to Entrepreneur podcast.