946: Client obsession, activating ALL the senses, and INTENTIONAL business growth w/ Katie Zimmerman

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian Lofermento, and I am joined by an entrepreneur today who I love so many aspects about her backstory.

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I love her attitude towards the way that she runs and operates her business and serves so many of her amazing clients, and she brings to the table a unique ability that I'm so excited to tap into today about getting into the minds of her clients in ways that maybe even they can't articulate.

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So we're gonna learn from the brilliance of Katie Zimmerman.

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She's our guest in today's episode.

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Katie spent nearly 20 years in the fashion industry, working for some of the most iconic brands in the world, brands that we've all heard of.

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If you've ever stepped foot in a mall, you've seen some of these brands, including Abercrombie, fitch, hollister, fossil, fruit of the Loom and Russell Athletic.

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With a degree in fashion design and product development, katie held leadership roles in design, merchandising, global licensing and visual merchandising process, client experiences and project management.

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She transitioned to interior design, where she now leverages her expertise in global sourcing and fashion to create stunning personalized spaces for her clients, and I know that her story is going to resonate with so many of you listeners, because she took her business from side hustle to now serving clients both near and far.

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I'm excited.

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We're all going to learn a lot.

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So let's dive straight into my interview with Katie Zimmerman.

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All right, katie, I'm so excited that you're here.

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First things first, welcome to the show.

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Thank you, Brian.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I'm very excited to share my experiences with your guests.

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Heck.

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Yes, honestly, I'm excited to learn from you personally, katie, because I think there's so much brilliance that goes into the services that you provide.

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It's such an intimate personal service that you do within the world of interior design.

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But before we get to that good stuff, take us beyond the bio.

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Who's, katie?

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How'd you start combining all these past experiences and an awesome career into what you do now?

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Yeah, so, okay, so, beyond my bio, it's kind of an interesting story, and not just one really of my career, but kind of a lifetime obsession with design.

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So when I was five years old, I said to my family that I wanted to be a fashion designer and I know young kids, they want to be singers and movie stars and all of those things, and so I think a lot of people thought this dream of being a fashion designer was also going to be a phase that I went through, and I even remember in high school being told that I was getting ready to graduate and I was going to have to select a real career.

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But luckily I had a family that was very supportive and pushed me to go follow my dreams and my passion.

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And so I went to school for fashion design and after I graduated I went to work for Abercrombie and Fitch, as you mentioned, which over the years I think has had a lot of bad press and a lot of controversy probably.

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But what I would say is that it is the most incredible place for a new designer to cut their teeth on the industry.

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I learned so many incredible important lessons about serving your clients, obsessing over the details, really about creating experiences, marketing business.

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I traveled the world at a very young age, worked in factories in India and Hong Kong and just all over the place, and it was an incredible journey and I was a product designer there for nearly 10 years and then I moved into as an industry term, you would probably know it as visual merchandising for our stores.

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Um, we actually internally called it brand senses, and the reason for that was that we were taught that the experience of going into one of our stores should ignite all of the senses, and that was a moment that really that changed how I approached my work and clients and really where I've taken my own business.

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We used to laugh about how we would spray so much cologne that you could taste it, so we really touched all of the senses, and so that was just a really great place for me to learn, and we just learned to obsess over the client, and we used to spend hours talking about what they were, who they were, who they weren't, even down to what car would they drive, what dog would they buy.

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We knew everything about the client and over time, I realized that I still had a bigger dream than that.

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I didn't know what that was, but I ended up moving on to some other businesses.

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I worked for the limited and some other brands um and then I eventually moved to bowling green, kentucky, um.

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I was hired by fruit of the loom um, and they are a berkshire hathaway company and under that umbrella there are other brands such as Spalding Russell Athletic Jersey.

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So a lot of different, really rich heritage brands there, which is something that I loved, having come from Abercrombie another very old, storied brand and so that was a natural transition for me.

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But what I realized is that it was more of a manufacturing company and so I got even further away from the consumer and although both companies were still product companies, because of our obsession with the experience and the brand with the consumer, I really came to love that and so fast forward to going into working at this manufacturer.

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I had gotten further away from that and I was really missing that.

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So I actually started my business, zimmerman Interiors in 2023.

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My husband is a contractor and I decided I was going to do this on the side, just to help out with his clients and help them with remodels, and it was really a hobby for me, but secretively.

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I had been listening to podcasts about interior design for probably five years at that point.

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For probably five years at that point and I think, because my identity from such a young age had been tied to being a fashion designer, I was having a hard time believing that I could leave the corporate world and move into something else, and so I started it as really a side hustle and I was in 23.

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It's funny because by the end of 2023, I was nowhere with my business and I was feeling very down and I did not think that it was a viable path.

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And I was listening to a podcast and it was talking about setting goals for your business and evaluating things going into the next year.

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So in November of 23, I sat down and I started to create a vision.

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And that is something that I always knew a lot about building a vision that was so clear that I could see, touch, feel, experience what it was going to be like to be there.

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And so I sat down and I did that for my business and that made it so real to me that my goal was, by the end of 24, I would leave the corporate world and I was going to have to make enough money to replace my corporate salary so I could leave.

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And I just wanted it so bad at that point because I could see it and I could imagine myself there, and I don't know why I never done that before because that was always kind of my superpower in the corporate world is seeing the end result and starting with the end in mind and working backwards and creating that vision.

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So once I did that for myself, it was game on, and so I have not looked back and some interesting things happened that you know just happened for the right reason.

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And I, in January of 24, just a few months after creating that vision, I went on a 10 day work trip and when I returned I was shocked to be told that very first day that my job had been eliminated.

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So I spent the next maybe 12 hours sad and then I said you know what?

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This is my chance, this has happened for a reason and I'm going to.

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I'm not going back to the corporate world, which was ridiculous for me to say, because at the time, in all of 23, my, my business, had generated less revenue than one month's salary, so it was a ridiculous dream at the time.

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And then within three weeks I signed my largest contract to date still and I have a product pipeline that is full through a lot of 25.

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So long story, but that is kind of my history of where I've been.

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So it's been exciting.

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Yeah gosh, katie, so much good stuff to unpack from that.

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That is an incredible overview because you did take us on that story where we all can resonate and relate to so many different parts of it, from the side hustle to always thinking about it and even thinking about your childhood dream of always wanting to go into fashion.

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Thinking about it and even thinking about your childhood dream of always wanting to go into fashion.

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And it sounds like there was a big part of you for the past five years that also had that entrepreneurial bug and once that lives inside of you, you can't ignore it.

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And so, hearing how the universe pushed you into it and said, katie, you can do it and you made it real with that vision, I want to go here with you because it's something that you introduced to the conversation that I think is so brilliant that you have the self-awareness for this.

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I don't think most entrepreneurs talk about it and that is the identity shift that comes with this.

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That comes with all the things that we talk about within the world of entrepreneurship.

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You had the identity shift of going from the world of fashion to interior design.

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You had the huge identity shift of going from a nine to five employee to being your own boss, being an entrepreneur.

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These are huge leaps, katie.

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What were those?

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Especially because, for me, my equivalent of your fashion is soccer.

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Ever since I was a kid, I wanted to be a professional soccer player and work in soccer.

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That's what my first business was.

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And so here I was, being a 22 year old and I had years of experience in my soccer business.

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I was traveling the world for soccer.

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That's what my identity was wrapped up in.

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I almost felt like it was a blessing and a curse, katie, because there were other things I wanted to do with my skillset, but everyone viewed me this way and I had to break free from those shackles.

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So give us your perspective on it, because you underwent some huge identity shifts in this process.

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Us your perspective on it, because you underwent some huge identity shifts in this process.

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Yes, that was one of the biggest things that held me back, and I'm sure because I've heard many guests on your show say you know, talk about this, and I think, across the board, most entrepreneurs at some point struggle with imposter syndrome, and so it was very real for me because not only did I feel like an imposter, like I didn't believe that my identity was a business owner or a designer, an interior designer, and that was holding me back, I think.

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And that was holding me back, I think, when it was still my side hustle, and I think that the shift happened when it became really about survival.

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I mean, my family was either.

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I was the breadwinner in my family and I had the corporate job and the stability, and so I don't know that I was brave enough to do it on my own and I'm just so glad it happened the way it did because I knew it was now or never.

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I was either going to take another corporate job or I was going to get used to introducing myself.

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I'm Katie Zimmerman, an interior designer, and my business does this and I had to practice.

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I mean, I practiced saying that in the mirror to people.

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I knew I would actually talk to friends and say, let me just get this out.

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I have to say this to you.

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It just felt so unnatural.

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Um, and then you know when it had to happen.

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Um, it was, it was survival, and so you know it was.

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It was hard to overcome, but it was really a blessing in disguise, the way it happened, cause I wasn't brave enough to do it on my own.

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Yeah, I love that.

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It's something that when I look back in starting my first business when I was 19 years old, it's kind of what you just said.

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Like I was fortunate then, that for me it was naivety.

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For you it's survival.

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For me it was naivety that at 19, I just I didn't know all the things I should be fearing.

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But you're right, it is that concept.

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I love how strong that visualization is for you in your process of making it real.

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For me.

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My equivalent of that was opening a business checking account.

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Katie, I felt like such a fraud being 19, being in business school and telling people I had a business.

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I was like I don't have a business, I don't have clients yet, I don't have sponsors, like I have no revenue.

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But the day that I opened the business bank account and saw my name and my business name on an account, it just felt validated and it felt real.

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So I love the fact that you talk about those things because it's essential part of our journey.

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But I also want to go deeper.

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This to me is just such a big part of your journey and your expertise that you bring to the world of interior design is when you talk about your time at Abercrombie and that example that is all too real for us, about way too much cologne being sprayed.

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We can all think of that because it is that obsession with the customer, with the client.

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Talk to us about that, because I know you also bring that to interior design.

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How do you so successfully get into the minds of your clients, especially in an industry where they might not be able to articulate the real stuff to you?

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You have to extract it out of them.

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Yeah, for sure, and I guess that's why I say I think that that is sort of my superpower and I realized that what I did for myself in envisioning my business and helping to accelerate that is what I needed to do for my clients.

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Because if you look across the industry you will find that a lot of interior designers use like a style quiz, maybe as a lead magnet, and I've come to realize that most clients are very insecure about not being able to identify their style.

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So when they call me they will say I don't know what my style is, I don't know if I'm modern, I don't know if I'm, you know, traditional, I don't.

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They don't.

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They want help identifying it and to me that doesn't matter.

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To me it's so much deeper than that and we are a very process driven firm and that probably comes from my corporate background.

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But one of the early, early things that we do and even as my team grows and we are bringing on more people, it's the part of the business that I say the most connected to is during our early onboarding phase and really throughout.

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I have to get into their head and I have to extract that information.

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But it's not what people think.

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It's not getting the client to identify their?

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design style or if they like painted cabinets versus stained cabinets.

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It's about creating a visual or a feeling, or almost a future memory that they can already feel, and that that that aha moment for the client is when I know what I'm designing for Um, and so we have a lot of upfront conversation and I actually had a client tell me from our questionnaire in the beginning.

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She said I feel like I'm in a therapy session, um, and I laughed, but I explained the importance of it to her.

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But we do.

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We find out childhood memories, we find out things that are nostalgic to them.

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We also find out things that are going to, you know, to be bothersome for them how they grew up, and things that they don't like, and that really helps us paint a picture of what it's going to feel like for them in their home once we make that transformation, and that is probably my favorite part about design.

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So yeah, I love that answer, especially because it just so much of the way you articulate these things come back to the feelings, the visuals, all those five senses that you talk about, even in your background.

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You've really carried that through your entire career.

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But for me, as a total business junkie, what I hear is such an important word as well.

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That is a big part of your business, which is the process.

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You're already here.

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You are an interior designer talking about process and onboarding and clearly these business elements are super important to you.

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Shed some light on that.

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I would love to get inside the mind, because really the answer to so many of these questions how are you getting inside their heads, how are you bringing their dreams to reality it lies within your process.

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Like, it's no mistake that you have so many successful projects and you've got this growing business and growing team.

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So talk to us a little bit about that process and how it works.

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Yes, so we have a seven step process, which I know sounds like a lot, but you know, what I've realized is the majority of my clients are they're too busy with their own lives and their careers and they want to know that things are taken care of.

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But it's also often the case that my clients hold positions in companies where they are used to driving process and being the boss, and so in my very first projects, I felt like I was being pushed on each project to do it the way that the client thought it should be done in terms of the order of things, and I very quickly realized that I needed to establish a process, explain it up front, set very clear boundaries and describe what was going to happen at each phase.

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Communication is a huge part of the process and make sure that the client understands that they don't need to worry about anything because it's all within the process and I will let them know where we are at each stage, and so even if they're a client that really wants to be more heavily involved, that's okay too.

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We just want to stick to the flow that we know is going to deliver the best results for them and ensure that we don't miss anything throughout the different phases of the process.

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Yeah, and I feel like it shows through in every single way that you and your company and your brand shows up in the work that you do, because it all just seems so well thought out in advance and really intentional.

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And I'm going to call this out because, katie, as I was preparing for today's episode together, what really stood out to me is even on your website, you have language that speaks to the direct users, for example, and your website's beautiful.

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By the way, listeners, we're going to tease the link, obviously, at the end of today's episode, but you've got a specific page for homeowners, for Airbnb owners, for realtors, for builders, and you're able to directly speak to their unique needs and scenarios and projects that you've worked on within those contexts.

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Talk to us about that, because I know that intentionality didn't start on day one.

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I know that all of our businesses are always evolving, but, katie, it just seems like you've thought about so many things beforehand so that you can do business in a really intentional and strategic way.

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Yeah, it definitely didn't happen by accident.

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So I built my own website and you're probably looking at the fourth version of it and it's actually going to change again soon a little bit, because we are opening a brick and mortar location.

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Brick and mortar location but yeah, I just what I realized after I built it the first time was I was getting a lot of traffic to my website and it was not converting, or even I wasn't even getting calls, and so I spent a really long time analyzing the customer journey and trying to build a um, build the language in that really spoke to the different people that were landing on my site, um, and really understanding what they might be looking for and how to speak to them individually and give them a place to feel like, oh, this page was built for me, that, yes, I am that customer, that customer, um, and so I did spend a lot of time focused on that um.

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But yeah, like I said, we actually will be revising it a little bit again.

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Um, we are opening a brick and mortar location, um, and moving into our new studio showroom in September, so we are going to be adjusting a little bit and I think, actually, I think that is one thing that is super important that I have learned.

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I am a planner and I am very intentional and, like you said, like you noticed, I do have a process and everything is always planned out.

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But the thing that I have learned that is so important for myself as an entrepreneur is that I have to embrace the journey and I have to be willing to try things and revise them if they don't work, and pivot and not be so attached to the idea just because I think, as an entrepreneur, you spend so much time, you're so invested that when something doesn't work, you have a hard time letting go.

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And so that's the thing that I'm always just trying to remind myself that it's okay, let's pivot, let's try something else and if it doesn't work, we can go back.

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So, um, really well said.

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That's powerful advice, katie, and I'm going to publicly say huge kudos to you and congrats.

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A brick and mortar location is not a small deal and it shows really the you call yourself a planner.

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I think it's really evident for all of us to see here today.

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But what I just keep seeing is intentional growth.

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You said it right there that none of this stuff happens by mistake, and I would argue that your results today are the result of things that you did six months ago, a year ago.

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Obviously, your entire career is coalescing into all the cool things that you get to do today and I think it's incredible to see that growth journey.

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Take us into the thought process of a brick and mortar, because I know that's a big goal for a lot of local based businesses, especially service businesses.

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What went into that?

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I'm sure there were some fears involved.

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What's your longer term vision for it as that planner?

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Yeah.

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So when I said that back in November, I sat down and got really clear about my future.

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What I didn't share is that I also listened to a podcast about how most companies write their vision and mission statement in a way that it's really meant for the client and it's on their website.

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But I decided to write it for me, um, and I wanted to make my vision, something that was so unachievable, um, and that I was going to strive every day to get there.

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But I didn't know that I ever would Um, and I wasn't going to even share it with anybody.

00:25:07.365 --> 00:25:12.096
I was honestly embarrassed to even share it with my husband because people would have thought, what?

00:25:12.096 --> 00:25:13.752
Who does this girl think she is?

00:25:13.752 --> 00:25:15.001
Um?

00:25:15.001 --> 00:25:49.133
And and that changed everything for me because, like when I said, thinking about where you want to end up and, I think, obsessing over those details, getting very, very specific About how you're gonna feel, what it's gonna look like and that's where I was when I wrote that, and I wrote into that that we were gonna have a brick-and-mortar location In fact, a few and we're not there yet, but I definitely did not expect to be opening the first one in six months either, but once I wrote it.

00:25:49.673 --> 00:26:03.791
It just felt so real that, again, like I could see the signage on the door I already knew the location in my mind, what it looked like, before I even knew the location in my mind, what it looked like.

00:26:03.791 --> 00:26:05.416
Before I even found the location, I it was in my head.

00:26:05.416 --> 00:26:12.295
I knew what it was gonna sound like, what music was gonna be playing in there, I knew what it was gonna smell like.

00:26:12.295 --> 00:26:25.534
I knew everything before I ever started on that path, and once I realized that I had, there was nothing that was going to stop me from making that happen.

00:26:25.664 --> 00:26:32.289
So it was scary, and it still is scary, but it's definitely, it was definitely part of the plan.

00:26:32.691 --> 00:27:07.550
Um didn't expect it to happen so soon, but what I realized is um, as a designer, I am wired to be a people pleaser and but as a business owner, I have to evaluate the return on investment and and I evaluate all of my projects and what I've come to realize is that we just pour everything into every project and not every client is looking for that level of service or even really appreciates that.

00:27:08.993 --> 00:27:15.861
And I don't want to turn people away and I want to be able to help more people, but not through full service design.

00:27:15.861 --> 00:27:24.855
And so I realized that if we were to open a brick and mortar location, that's a beautiful showroom that really inspires people when they walk in.

00:27:24.855 --> 00:27:48.678
We're not a furniture store, we are a design showroom and we can work with people still one on one, and we can help people envision what their future room could look like or home could look like, and we could help them get custom furniture or window treatments, but they didn't have to then sign up for turnkey design services.

00:27:48.678 --> 00:28:01.878
So it's allowing us to have another revenue stream and another way to work with people without pouring everything into full service, and not everyone is a full service client.

00:28:01.878 --> 00:28:07.140
So that's kind of how that part of the business started to evolve for us.

00:28:07.682 --> 00:28:23.972
Yeah, I really appreciate those insights, especially because, katie, I'm excited to ask you this next question, because I always love having conversations, entrepreneur to entrepreneur, and it just seems to me like your brain is wired in such a unique and really powerful way because you talk about paying attention to the details.

00:28:24.034 --> 00:28:43.692
But at the same time, katie, what I see when I look at your business's trajectory is you also have mastered the art of that long-term visualization and execution which, for a lot of people zooming into the details and zooming out you know, either their brain excels in one part of that or they have to make a conscious effort to do that.

00:28:43.692 --> 00:28:57.278
So, entrepreneur to entrepreneur, interior design aside, I'm super curious to hear from a business owner's perspective, how do you manage and create that space for your own mind to dream, to pay attention to the things that you need it to?

00:28:57.278 --> 00:29:05.097
Do you carve out executive time to zoom out and take that more macro level, look at what you want, or is it something that comes naturally to you?

00:29:05.097 --> 00:29:07.894
Share some insights into the way that mind works for us.

00:29:09.204 --> 00:29:10.287
Yes, okay.

00:29:10.287 --> 00:29:12.270
So that is a tricky one.

00:29:12.270 --> 00:29:14.513
My mind never stops.

00:29:14.513 --> 00:29:27.299
I have an assistant designer right now who told me the other day we were listening to a speaker and that speaker had said that most people have about 60,000 thoughts a day.

00:29:27.299 --> 00:29:32.897
And my design assistant looked at me and said, if most people have 60,000 thoughts a day, you have 70.

00:29:32.897 --> 00:29:36.835
And I think she's right about that.

00:29:37.385 --> 00:29:52.287
I am always thinking, and that can be good and bad, and one of the things that I have had to do is seek help and guidance from other people too, and I think that's really important.

00:29:52.287 --> 00:29:57.112
So I have kind of built a team around me as well.

00:29:57.112 --> 00:30:04.800
So I have invested in business coaching and, um, you know, mastermind type group.

00:30:04.800 --> 00:30:21.900
So I have a small but kind of trusted group around me and that time definitely is dedicated towards um, being very specific, um, and I have a business coach, business coach and I do work on strategic plans.

00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:26.471
That way I try to carve out executive time as well.

00:30:26.471 --> 00:30:34.132
But I think we all know how that goes and it's hard to you know to always make it happen.

00:30:34.132 --> 00:30:48.176
But what I do is, through coaching and very intentional time, I try to really set that vision, that long-term vision and then I try to involve other people in helping me in the details of execution.

00:30:48.176 --> 00:31:02.666
So whether that's people who are actually employed by Zimmerman Interiors or people that I kind of contract, or whatever, I like to bring people in and get other points of view too, and that's really helped.

00:31:02.666 --> 00:31:05.536
That really helped shape how we execute in the details.

00:31:06.365 --> 00:31:25.627
Yeah, that's really valuable advice there, katie, and I think it so reflects your attitude towards the work that you do, as well as the work that you do as a business owner, to focus on your own growth, because a lot of times, as entrepreneurs, we put all the pressure on ourselves that I must have all the answers, but it's why I always love that concept of you can't read the label from inside the jars.

00:31:25.627 --> 00:31:33.655
Get those outside perspectives, which, of course, speaks to the fact that, as an interior designer, you can see things that a lot of us can't see inside of our own spaces.

00:31:33.655 --> 00:31:50.359
So I'm excited to drop those links, but before we get there, I always love asking guests what's the one piece of advice or the takeaway that you want to leave listeners with, knowing that we're being listened to by thousands of people at all different stages of their businesses, including those entrepreneurs who are still standing on the sidelines?

00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:53.694
What's that one piece of advice that you want to leave listeners with today?

00:31:57.596 --> 00:32:16.176
So, as maybe not as exciting as it may sound, it really is true that I am such a firm believer that you have got to start with the end in mind, and I know people have probably heard that so many times.

00:32:16.176 --> 00:32:21.125
But it's not just about saying the end goal is that I'm going to own a business.

00:32:21.125 --> 00:32:31.951
It is about obsessing over those details and getting so, so, so specific, and I would say that's true for entrepreneurs, it's true for everybody.

00:32:31.951 --> 00:32:40.874
I see it every day, even when I look at my clients and their design projects and how I help them.

00:32:42.395 --> 00:32:47.752
The number one thing that I see go wrong when people try to decorate their own homes.

00:32:47.752 --> 00:32:55.166
They didn't have an end in mind, and so they're out shopping and they're buying things, and then they're wondering why they didn't all go together.

00:32:55.166 --> 00:32:58.232
But they never imagined what that end would look like.

00:32:58.232 --> 00:33:03.605
So, and it can change and it can evolve and shift, just like business.

00:33:03.605 --> 00:33:18.556
But I think the clearer you are on every detail about your end goal, the stronger your vision will be and the clearer your path to get there will become.

00:33:19.346 --> 00:33:21.261
Yeah, really important advice there.

00:33:21.261 --> 00:33:27.568
The visual that you're going to leave me with, katie, business-wise, is someone picks up a Facebook ad campaign from HomeGoods.

00:33:27.568 --> 00:33:30.096
They get their sales process from Target.

00:33:30.096 --> 00:33:31.686
None of these things are going to fit together.

00:33:31.686 --> 00:33:34.915
So I love the fact that that's the way you took that, because you're right.

00:33:34.915 --> 00:33:50.334
I don't think that we think about things intentionally enough and, from a planner yourself, I love the fact that there's so many clues to your success in the way that your business and your brand shows up, and I've been teasing your website to listeners throughout our episode here today, and I really mean it.

00:33:50.334 --> 00:33:51.217
Success leaves clues.

00:33:51.217 --> 00:34:01.971
Listeners, if you wanna see the visual manifestation, the real-life practicality of the way that Katie views her own business and the way that she serves others, go to her website, check it out.

00:34:01.971 --> 00:34:04.837
So, katie, with all of that in mind, drop those links on us.

00:34:10.605 --> 00:34:11.427
Where should listeners go from here?

00:34:11.427 --> 00:34:12.931
Yeah, so you can visit my website at Zimmermaninteriorscom.

00:34:12.931 --> 00:34:14.918
I'm also on social media.

00:34:14.918 --> 00:34:19.871
Zimmerman Interiors on Instagram is probably where I am at the most.

00:34:20.532 --> 00:34:22.458
Yes, listeners, you know the drill.

00:34:22.458 --> 00:34:25.094
We are making it as easy as possible for you to find Katie's links.

00:34:25.094 --> 00:34:28.755
Her business website is at Zimmermaninteriorscom.

00:34:28.755 --> 00:34:30.110
That's Zimmermaninteriorscom.

00:34:30.110 --> 00:34:32.525
We're also linking to her socials down below.

00:34:32.525 --> 00:34:36.456
So, wherever it is that you're tuning in to today's episode, you don't have to memorize links.

00:34:36.456 --> 00:34:39.795
Just click right on through directly down below in the show notes.

00:34:39.795 --> 00:34:45.769
So, katie, on behalf of myself and all of our listeners, around the world.

00:34:45.789 --> 00:34:47.094
Thanks so much for coming on the show today.

00:34:47.114 --> 00:34:52.931
Thank you hey, it's Brian here and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:34:52.931 --> 00:34:56.911
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:34:56.911 --> 00:35:03.333
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom.

00:35:03.333 --> 00:35:06.114
And I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:35:06.114 --> 00:35:14.873
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:35:15.005 --> 00:35:16.952
These are not sponsored episodes.

00:35:16.952 --> 00:35:18.530
These are not infomercials.

00:35:18.530 --> 00:35:22.989
Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.

00:35:22.989 --> 00:35:33.007
They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.

00:35:33.007 --> 00:35:41.492
So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.

00:35:41.492 --> 00:35:42.855
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00:35:42.855 --> 00:35:47.449
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00:35:47.449 --> 00:35:48.871
Initiate a live chat.

00:35:48.871 --> 00:35:58.300
It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always, every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.