991: Finding work you LOVE w/ Kelly Duggan

WEBVTT

00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:01.183
Hey, what is up?

00:00:01.183 --> 00:00:04.551
Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:00:04.551 --> 00:00:17.661
As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and if there's one thing that unites all of us who are here today, whether you're a wantrepreneur or an entrepreneur, it is that we are all looking to just love what we do.

00:00:17.661 --> 00:00:29.714
And today's guest when we came across her work, we knew we had to invite her on the show, because she not only helps others find and do work that they love, but she is so passionate about serving others.

00:00:29.714 --> 00:00:33.390
So I'm so excited to share her story and journey and insights.

00:00:33.390 --> 00:00:44.426
Whether you're a wantrepreneur or an entrepreneur, the way that today's guest views work and employees and teams and the missions that we're all on is really going to give us so many valuable perspective shifts.

00:00:44.426 --> 00:00:46.329
So let me tell you all about today's guest.

00:00:46.389 --> 00:00:47.692
Her name is Kelly Dugan.

00:00:47.692 --> 00:00:51.042
Kelly is the founder of your Place at the Top.

00:00:51.042 --> 00:00:58.923
As a former employee experience executive, kelly spent nearly a decade with WWE yes, that entertainment company.

00:00:58.923 --> 00:01:06.730
I'm so excited to hear some of the lessons and strategies that she picked up from her time there building their employee experience function from the ground up.

00:01:06.730 --> 00:01:22.483
With your Place at the Top, kelly has partnered across industries, from sports and entertainment to financial institutions and hospitality, but she began her career in education, where she earned her master's in higher education administration from the College of William and Mary.

00:01:22.763 --> 00:01:38.676
And it's so fun, because one thing we talk about a lot on this show is that all these things sound like a nonlinear path, but when you look backwards you realize they've all prepared you for what you do, and that's a message that, the more I research Kelly and all the great work that she does, she so emphasizes.

00:01:38.676 --> 00:01:43.707
That for her clients and the people that she serves, is that in the rearview mirror, it all seems to make sense.

00:01:43.707 --> 00:01:48.096
In the moment we're working towards something that we probably can't even envision.

00:01:48.096 --> 00:01:50.381
So, on that note, I'm not going to say anything else.

00:01:50.381 --> 00:01:53.427
Let's dive straight into my interview with Kelly Dugan.

00:01:53.427 --> 00:01:59.706
All right, kelly, I'm so excited that you're here with us today.

00:01:59.706 --> 00:02:00.587
First things first.

00:02:00.587 --> 00:02:01.490
Welcome to the show.

00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:03.361
Thank you so much, Brian.

00:02:03.361 --> 00:02:04.444
I'm so happy to be here.

00:02:04.905 --> 00:02:05.165
Heck.

00:02:05.165 --> 00:02:09.274
Yes, I'm pumped because we're all going to learn so many different things from you today.

00:02:09.274 --> 00:02:14.901
But first things first.

00:02:14.901 --> 00:02:15.423
Take us beyond the bio.

00:02:15.423 --> 00:02:15.663
Who's Kelly?

00:02:15.663 --> 00:02:16.506
What did it look like working at WWE?

00:02:16.506 --> 00:02:17.609
How did you start doing all these amazing things?

00:02:17.609 --> 00:02:18.951
Give us some of that backstory.

00:02:19.659 --> 00:02:32.949
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely I actually, the beginning of my career story goes back to where I started in college, which was thinking that I was going to be a family and consumer sciences teacher.

00:02:32.949 --> 00:02:59.646
I quickly learned that I did not want to be a teacher and I instead shifted focus to wanting to work in college administration and went in to get my master's in higher education administration at the College of William Mary.

00:02:59.646 --> 00:03:29.610
I then had probably the strangest internship from all of the higher ed majors at William Mary, because I went and got my internship with WWE and I had an opportunity to do that because I knew I wanted to go into career services and I really wanted to be able to serve college students with knowing a little bit about what the corporate world actually looked like.

00:03:29.610 --> 00:03:37.909
So I had an opportunity to get an internship at WWE to learn about HR, which then turned into a full-time job offer after graduation, which I thought you know what?

00:03:37.909 --> 00:03:47.923
I'll go do this for a few years and then go back to what I really thought that I wanted to do full time, which was be able to provide career coaching to college students.

00:03:49.224 --> 00:04:03.568
That turned into a nearly 10-year career with WWE, where I got to grow from being a recruiting assistant to founding their learning and development function and eventually becoming their vice president of employee experience.

00:04:03.568 --> 00:04:07.643
So I absolutely loved my time at WWE.

00:04:07.643 --> 00:04:15.704
I learned so much there, but I always had this pull on my heart to want to be able to help people in their career paths.

00:04:15.704 --> 00:04:23.807
And as I grew within the organization, I got to do less and less hands-on FaceTime coaching with employees.

00:04:23.807 --> 00:04:30.269
So I decided to start my company, your Place at the Top, and I started that in 2020.

00:04:30.269 --> 00:04:37.387
And it was a real passion project on the side, really just to fulfill that want to be able to do this in myself.

00:04:37.387 --> 00:04:45.206
And after about three years, in July of 2023, I realized that I could no longer do both.

00:04:45.206 --> 00:04:53.442
I was working two full-time jobs and it was time to switch my focus on to your place at the top, where I get to help people love what they do every day.

00:04:54.283 --> 00:04:58.653
Yes, I love that overview, kelly, especially because it's something I've seen.

00:04:58.653 --> 00:05:00.264
So much of your content, by the way.

00:05:00.264 --> 00:05:06.939
You put a ton of amazing content into the world across social media, so I'm excited to talk about that stuff in today's episode as well.

00:05:06.939 --> 00:05:11.492
But so much of your content focuses on the fact that these are all building blocks.

00:05:11.492 --> 00:05:17.752
They may not make sense to us in the moment, but in the rearview mirror it looks linear because they've all prepared us for those next steps.

00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:32.124
I want to leverage your time at WWE to start talking about those building blocks, because I think the natural progression we all go through with WWE is when we're kids, we look at it and we go, oh my gosh, wrestling is crazy, this is unbelievable things I'm seeing.

00:05:32.124 --> 00:05:38.694
Then, as teenagers, we learn, oh, it's scripted but doesn't make it any less impressive how athletic these people are.

00:05:38.694 --> 00:05:45.173
And then, as adults I think somewhere along the line, a lot of us realize this is an amazing business model.

00:05:45.173 --> 00:05:56.694
This is an incredible and innovative platform within the sports and entertainment world that involves strategy, that involves storytelling, that involves character development so much that goes into it.

00:05:56.694 --> 00:06:05.411
So, kelly, what are some of those things that you took with you from WWE and a lot of people may not appreciate the insights and intentionality behind it.

00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:07.343
Yeah, absolutely.

00:06:07.343 --> 00:06:10.009
I think you hit on some of the main ones right there.

00:06:10.009 --> 00:06:18.353
The storytelling, just incredible, front row seat to learning a truly incredibly fast-paced business.

00:06:18.353 --> 00:06:27.483
I learned right from the beginning at WWE the value of hard work and what it means to be able to grow within an organization.

00:06:27.483 --> 00:06:39.053
You know I had just an opportunity of a lifetime there to be able to really get to build out a function and see it grow within my time at WWE.

00:06:39.053 --> 00:07:13.228
But beyond a shadow of a doubt, the biggest thing that I take with me from my time at WWE is what incredible people can do, because if you know anything about WWE, you know the incredible show that they put on and I had the opportunity to get to know the people behind the scenes who make that happen on a daily basis and it really inspired the work that I do today, because great people do great work and when you are able to support those people, amazing things can happen.

00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:24.259
Yeah, and hearing you talk about that and picturing the behind the scenes of any entertainment company really, and when you involve sports and athleticism and all of that, to someone like me that's super exciting.

00:07:24.259 --> 00:07:28.572
But, kelly, I've got to ask you that question, bridging the gap to your place at the top.

00:07:28.572 --> 00:07:35.384
A lot of people might think, kelly, I'm an accountant and I sit in a cubicle all day, or I am a business analyst.

00:07:35.384 --> 00:07:41.744
How do I find the fun and glamorous parts of my career journey when that's what I do?

00:07:41.744 --> 00:07:43.168
Is it industry?

00:07:43.168 --> 00:07:44.872
Is it progression of your career?

00:07:44.872 --> 00:07:50.788
I'd love to hear where you even begin the conversations when you start talking about finding work that we all love.

00:07:51.930 --> 00:08:06.261
Absolutely, and all of the different coaching programs that I offer and where I start with all of my clients is around the same concept, and it's identifying their unique value, because that's not going to be the same for each one of us.

00:08:06.261 --> 00:08:24.413
Even if you have two folks who have completely identical resumes, what makes them unique is going to be different, and how I define unique value is it's that combination of your strengths, your values and your experience that all get put together to create what makes you you.

00:08:24.413 --> 00:08:40.168
So we start there and identifying what are the pieces that you love, what are the things that you love about your day today, and not limiting yourself to thinking that you have to take the pieces that you love with these other pieces that you might not love so much.

00:08:40.168 --> 00:08:41.645
It's just part of the job.

00:08:41.645 --> 00:08:44.629
Everyone has part of their work that they don't love.

00:08:44.629 --> 00:08:56.172
So many of us just accept that as fact, and when you let yourself off the hook and allow yourself to find what it is that you truly love, that's the first step of making it happen.

00:08:57.360 --> 00:08:58.703
Yeah, I want to ask you this, kelly.

00:08:58.703 --> 00:09:18.148
It's not the most fleshed out question, because it's a perception that I have from the outside, looking in at your business and your work and your messaging and maybe my lens is a little bit biased because you're one of us, you're a fellow entrepreneur but it just seems to me like the way that you think about and view work is not as this entirely separate entity.

00:09:18.148 --> 00:09:20.633
You know a lot of people that do your line of work.

00:09:20.633 --> 00:09:27.366
They talk about your job as being a self-contained thing, whereas for you it just seems like you build it.

00:09:27.366 --> 00:09:27.707
So it's.

00:09:27.707 --> 00:09:30.477
It encompasses the life that we want to live as well.

00:09:30.477 --> 00:09:34.447
It should compliment the things in the life that we want to love.

00:09:34.447 --> 00:09:39.144
Talk to us about how you flesh that out, because for a lot of people, a nine to five is is a nine to five.

00:09:39.144 --> 00:09:42.208
It's what they do, and they go home and they have their life outside of it.

00:09:42.208 --> 00:09:46.743
What does this balance and work-life mix look like in your head?

00:09:47.566 --> 00:09:54.047
Yeah, I have this love-hate relationship with the term work-life balance because of what you just described.

00:09:54.047 --> 00:10:10.741
We are not people that can turn off and, on certain parts of ourselves, so loving what you do, your job or whatever you do for work, if you're an entrepreneur, whatever that looks like is a part of that puzzle Because of the number of hours that we put into it.

00:10:10.741 --> 00:10:14.731
It's a very big part of that puzzle, but it's not the entire puzzle.

00:10:14.731 --> 00:10:28.773
And when it comes to how do you decipher what you want, it's a very personal decision because for some people, that fulfillment may not come from a nine to five job.

00:10:28.773 --> 00:10:34.945
It may not come from what they choose to spend their what most people would call work time on.

00:10:34.945 --> 00:10:42.248
Maybe it's an Etsy shop on the side, Maybe it's just a passion project, Maybe you love to paint, Maybe you are.

00:10:42.248 --> 00:10:47.847
You just love people and you love to spend time connecting with people and you're going to find fulfillment in other ways.

00:10:48.980 --> 00:10:51.749
The way that I approach this is no judgment either way.

00:10:51.749 --> 00:11:01.940
Right, there is no wrong answer and it's completely unique to the person, but when you are trying to have a life you love, you have to look at the whole picture.

00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:05.389
And when I came up with the name of the company your Place at the Top.

00:11:05.389 --> 00:11:05.950
I was really.

00:11:05.950 --> 00:11:14.966
It came from this quote that my dad used to always say growing up which I've now learned is actually a Daniel Webster quote but there's always room at the top.

00:11:14.966 --> 00:11:17.547
And that is true.

00:11:17.547 --> 00:11:23.248
Right, If you are willing to put the work in, there is going to be room for you at the top.

00:11:23.248 --> 00:11:31.280
But I had this revelation that the top does not look the same for everyone, and it's also not just a final destination For most of us.

00:11:31.280 --> 00:11:42.695
Once we achieve that, we're ready to start looking for that next level as well, and it encompasses your work, and I spend a lot of time coaching people on work because it's such a big piece, but it's not the whole puzzle.

00:11:43.736 --> 00:11:45.642
Yeah, Hearing you talk about that, Kelly.

00:11:45.642 --> 00:11:56.994
I've never worked within HR, but I love HR statistics because it has such an interesting vantage point about the way that businesses work managing its most important resource, which, of course, is people.

00:11:56.994 --> 00:12:04.455
And when I think about the world of HR, I've long heard this is people, and when I think about the world of HR I've long heard this it's not a quote or concept about.

00:12:04.455 --> 00:12:14.471
Competition is fiercest actually at the bottom, and so people who are looking to get ahead it's actually when there are job postings for CEOs, those get the fewest amount of job applications.

00:12:14.471 --> 00:12:21.940
And, of course, if we're all working in a 100,000 employee business, we may not have the qualifications or experience yet to be the.

00:12:22.029 --> 00:12:25.601
CEO just yet but I hearing you talk about that it's.

00:12:25.601 --> 00:12:31.644
It's almost like something I say in business a lot, which is ask bigger questions and you'll find bigger answers.

00:12:31.644 --> 00:12:35.076
If you ask those small questions, you'll only ever find small answers.

00:12:35.076 --> 00:12:36.321
Talk to us about.

00:12:36.321 --> 00:12:48.437
I don't know if it's a mindset perspective, I don't know if it's a confidence thing within the workplace, but why is competition so fierce at the bottom, leaving all those opportunities up top that so few people chase after?

00:12:49.581 --> 00:12:58.610
You know it's such a great question and I think mindset is a really big part of it, and I think not everyone wants to be the CEO either right?

00:12:58.610 --> 00:13:09.197
I think it goes back to the conversation we were just having is what success looks like, for everyone is going to be very different, and there's a small percentage of the world who wants to take that path.

00:13:09.197 --> 00:13:13.375
So right away you're getting some self selection happening along the way there.

00:13:13.375 --> 00:13:16.471
And then I do think the other major part of it is the mindset.

00:13:16.471 --> 00:13:22.873
Is that I think so many of us I've caught myself doing it at so many different points of my career.

00:13:22.952 --> 00:13:48.769
Before I went into business full time, I remember, even though in my mind I knew that's what I wanted to do, when I would describe it to people I would say, oh, I do this thing on the side, I'll probably only ever be on the side, and it was what I was putting out there into the world was a way of protecting myself so that if I didn't succeed in doing it full time, nobody knew that was what I really wanted, right?

00:13:48.769 --> 00:13:58.219
But what I was actually doing was limiting my own mindset and probably slowed me down from actually getting to go and do this full time, which is what I love to do.

00:13:58.219 --> 00:13:59.821
So I think it's twofold.

00:13:59.821 --> 00:14:06.886
I think it is partially what we want for ourselves, and the other part is the mindset to allow ourselves to get there.

00:14:07.909 --> 00:14:12.322
Yeah, really good answer, because it is kind of a philosophical question and it's hard to answer.

00:14:12.322 --> 00:14:20.216
But obviously this is the work that you navigate with your clients and when I think about you sitting down with them, obviously you serve them on a really deep level.

00:14:20.216 --> 00:14:26.636
And when we're talking about them identifying their values, their strengths, kelly, how much does imposter syndrome kick in?

00:14:26.636 --> 00:14:30.793
I remember when I was a college student and career counselors were saying what are you good at?

00:14:30.793 --> 00:14:33.341
You know, in some ways we think we're better than we are.

00:14:33.341 --> 00:14:35.855
In some ways we diminish our skills and our gifts.

00:14:35.855 --> 00:14:48.317
How do you even start extracting that good stuff from your clients so that they go beyond either their limiting beliefs or they can get past their blind spots and step into and own the things that they're good at?

00:14:49.210 --> 00:14:55.023
Yeah, I first thing I'll say about imposter syndrome is it exists at any, every single level.

00:14:55.023 --> 00:15:06.432
I think a big myth about imposter syndrome in ourselves is we feel like, ok, as soon as I reach this goal, that imposter syndrome is going to go away.

00:15:06.432 --> 00:15:08.174
I'm going to prove to myself that I'm worthy and that I've done it.

00:15:08.174 --> 00:15:13.283
But I am yet to work with anyone who hasn't had some level of imposter syndrome at play.

00:15:13.283 --> 00:15:19.654
Because that's the tricky thing about imposter syndrome as soon as we achieve what we thought was going to be the key to unlock it.

00:15:19.654 --> 00:15:22.020
We've now set more goals for ourselves.

00:15:22.020 --> 00:15:27.280
We want more things for ourselves, and now we're wondering are we imposters for wanting that?

00:15:28.490 --> 00:15:35.240
So, when it comes to conquering imposter syndrome, what I focus on is show me the proof, show yourself the proof.

00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:48.287
And when you really start looking at the tangible examples of all of the proof that you've had that you can do what you say you do, that speaks volumes and really shutting out.

00:15:48.287 --> 00:15:56.775
Because what we're doing with imposter syndrome is we are catastrophizing, we're thinking of things that could happen that haven't happened, that what if I look stupid in this scenario?

00:15:56.775 --> 00:16:00.331
But what the proof is is that we can do this.

00:16:00.331 --> 00:16:01.274
So we focus on.

00:16:01.274 --> 00:16:05.054
Let's look at the facts, acknowledge the fear that we have.

00:16:05.054 --> 00:16:11.356
Let's not hide from it, but let's look at the facts to be able to help us bridge our way to that next level.

00:16:12.097 --> 00:16:25.462
Yeah, kelly, it's always fun for me to have these conversations because I know that you and I are kind of talking about careers right now, but I also know that these nuggets of knowledge that you're dropping on us listeners will relate to it in their own entrepreneurial journeys.

00:16:25.462 --> 00:16:31.854
So, yeah, this is the stuff and you called it out and I'll just echo it for listeners right now is that imposter syndrome never goes away.

00:16:31.854 --> 00:16:36.932
Maybe we get better at identifying it and overcoming it, but it's always going to be present there.

00:16:36.932 --> 00:16:39.296
So huge kudos to you for shouting that out.

00:16:39.336 --> 00:16:58.506
Kelly, I want to ask you this question because, thinking about your career arc, you've worked inside of incredible businesses, of course, but now you also help others from outside of their nine to five environments, and so you've seen the employee experience side of the world as well as, now, the career coaching side of the world.

00:16:58.506 --> 00:16:59.232
How do those insights?

00:16:59.232 --> 00:17:00.119
They feel like different sides of the world.

00:17:00.119 --> 00:17:00.561
How do those insights?

00:17:00.561 --> 00:17:02.370
They feel like different sides of the table.

00:17:02.370 --> 00:17:07.262
How do those insights benefit the way that you truly serve both sides of that coin?

00:17:08.230 --> 00:17:12.038
Yeah, both sides of the coin is the best way to put it, I think.

00:17:12.159 --> 00:17:31.038
When I started my business, I felt, because I've listened to all of the great content out there, I've read the books, I wanted to niche down and I had a really hard time deciding okay, do I want to go all in on career coaching or do I want to go all in on employee experience consulting?

00:17:31.159 --> 00:17:39.132
And I finally reached the point in myself where I realized I can't choose one of these right now because they are two sides of the same coin.

00:17:39.132 --> 00:17:42.076
I am on a mission to help people love what they do.

00:17:42.076 --> 00:17:50.988
I want people to love the work that they do and in order to make that impact on individuals and in the world, you have to address both sides right.

00:17:50.988 --> 00:18:00.576
You have to be able to help people find the confidence, find the direction and be able to have the courage to choose what it is that they want to do so that they can love it.

00:18:00.576 --> 00:18:16.476
But you also want to be able to help these organizations to be able to develop employee experiences, operations, engagements overall that are promoting a really positive workforce and a positive culture for their employees.

00:18:17.239 --> 00:18:24.141
Yeah Well, kelly, now the pressure's on you because we've introduced a very important term to this conversation, which is employee experience.

00:18:24.141 --> 00:18:39.102
What the heck for all of those entrepreneurs out there who are fortunate enough to be growing their teams it's something that we've enjoyed here in 2024, behind the scenes, at this podcast is it's cool to have a worldwide team of all of us getting even more work done so we can impact even more people?

00:18:39.102 --> 00:18:41.798
What is employee experience, kelly?

00:18:41.798 --> 00:18:44.858
How the heck, as business owners, do we start paying attention to that?

00:18:45.770 --> 00:18:46.393
Absolutely.

00:18:46.393 --> 00:18:46.855
You know what.

00:18:46.855 --> 00:19:07.282
There are a lot of really complex definitions out there for employee experience, but I think the simplest way to understand it is it's how you can intentionally be cognizant about how you connect with your employees and really creating a space for them so that they can do their best work.

00:19:07.282 --> 00:19:18.442
Having come from the employee engagement background, we've all heard the HR joke of great to celebrate, hr gets a pizza party and we call that employee experience.

00:19:18.442 --> 00:19:25.601
I think to really change how people connect at work and how people enjoy their job.

00:19:25.601 --> 00:19:27.904
It's about so much more than just a pizza party.

00:19:27.950 --> 00:19:35.804
Right, this is about how do we create operations that allow our employees to succeed, so that they're not pulling their hair out because things feel inefficient.

00:19:35.804 --> 00:19:43.483
How do we provide safe places for them to be able to get feedback from their managers and provide feedback upwards as well?

00:19:43.483 --> 00:19:53.182
All of that goes into what employee experience means and, as an entrepreneur, I know a lot of us have small teams that we work with.

00:19:53.182 --> 00:20:02.618
Maybe we're working with many different contractors to be able to keep the machine moving, but the fundamentals really remain the same.

00:20:02.618 --> 00:20:22.118
It's taking the time to really onboard the people that you work with, make sure that they understand the values of your business, make sure they know how you do business, make sure you understand them and what motivates them and how you can provide direction and feedback and things that are going to help them to be successful.

00:20:22.118 --> 00:20:24.919
At the heart of it, it's really just getting to know people.

00:20:26.009 --> 00:20:33.718
Yeah, and I think that last point that you made, it really challenges us as business owners to step into those executive roles of understanding our teams.

00:20:33.718 --> 00:20:37.134
For us as operators, gosh, do we understand our businesses?

00:20:37.134 --> 00:20:40.310
They are our babies and that's something that we're so passionate about.

00:20:40.310 --> 00:20:51.542
But understanding our teams and being that leader of the ship to put other people in positions to succeed, that's the role, in my view at least, of being a true executive and a CEO of our businesses.

00:20:51.542 --> 00:20:55.627
So, kelly, along those lines, you talked about understanding their motives.

00:20:55.627 --> 00:20:59.156
Obviously, when we're nine to five employees, we feel certain things.

00:20:59.156 --> 00:21:03.979
We feel our salaries, we feel our hours, we feel all of those things.

00:21:03.979 --> 00:21:09.414
Give us some of those insights into the different motivations and ways that we can engage with our employees.

00:21:10.436 --> 00:21:10.999
Absolutely.

00:21:10.999 --> 00:21:19.352
First and foremost, you have to talk to your people and have a relationship with your people in order to be able to understand their motivations right.

00:21:19.352 --> 00:21:22.520
You're going to have people who are very motivated by money.

00:21:22.520 --> 00:21:32.560
You might have people who are very motivated by balance at this point, people who are very motivated by seeking out new responsibility and wanting to grow their skill sets.

00:21:32.560 --> 00:21:52.342
It changes for an individual at different points throughout our career and when you are leading people, whether that's in an executive role or whether that's in a direct people manager role, it's about understanding your people and understanding what they need, because, at the end of the day, you're serving them right.

00:21:52.342 --> 00:22:00.311
That's what that's what leadership really is is that you're able to deliver to them what they need to be able to do great work.

00:22:01.275 --> 00:22:10.017
Yeah, kelly, this is a fun one for me to ask you, because I feel like you and I are somewhat in the same line of work with this next question, and that is with regards to patience.

00:22:10.017 --> 00:22:17.380
So here in the entrepreneurial world, everyone who starts their business wants to be at 5K or 10K a month immediately.

00:22:17.380 --> 00:22:24.345
They want those results now and, of course, when you're working with people with regards to career coaching, they want that position now.

00:22:24.345 --> 00:22:26.330
But there are so many steps along the way.

00:22:26.330 --> 00:22:31.262
How do you manage that time horizon in a world where we chase that instant gratification?

00:22:32.329 --> 00:22:43.712
Oh, that is such a good point because I can even speak to myself starting the entrepreneurial journey, and I have to just sit back and laugh sometimes when I achieve milestones.

00:22:43.813 --> 00:22:49.315
Now, nearly six years into this, that I was like, oh for sure, that'll be a one year, right?

00:22:49.315 --> 00:22:53.352
You know when you're, when you're just starting off, you think rose colored glasses, everything's.

00:22:53.352 --> 00:22:56.622
If I do this, this and this, everything's gonna happen super fast.

00:22:56.622 --> 00:23:09.134
And it doesn't happen that way, and I think the key to it is, first and foremost, understanding where people are coming from, because of course, we all want the quickest path of least resistance.

00:23:09.213 --> 00:23:35.412
But then it's explaining that not only, yes, things are going to take a little bit longer, but the value behind because they are going to take longer, right, like, okay, that promotion that you want right now we haven't had the conversations with your manager to be able to start setting up the breadcrumbs for you to get promoted quite yet, so most likely that that promotion isn't happening right now.

00:23:35.412 --> 00:23:47.453
Here's how we can make it happen a year from now and also here's why that might be better, because now we are going to know more, we are going to be more prepared, we're going to be able to get that imposter syndrome in check.

00:23:47.453 --> 00:23:50.262
We're not going to fly too close to the sun too soon.

00:23:50.262 --> 00:23:57.618
It's about talking about the why and the value in working with the timing.

00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:06.025
Yeah, kelly, I love that perspective because I feel like it's so, reveals so much of your mindset, shifts in perspective.

00:24:06.025 --> 00:24:11.791
And it doesn't surprise me because, like I said, you're one of us, you're a fellow entrepreneur, and these are the real things that we have no choice.

00:24:11.791 --> 00:24:14.820
We have to confront them when we're growing our own businesses.

00:24:14.820 --> 00:24:22.299
And that's why I always love, in these conversations, transitioning and talking not as the subject matter expert that you are, but as a fellow entrepreneur.

00:24:22.299 --> 00:24:27.854
And I'm going to put you on the spot here, kelly, because I so love what you do on social media.

00:24:27.953 --> 00:24:31.020
You show up from a place of service for so many people.

00:24:31.020 --> 00:24:39.637
At the time of recording, I can see on your TikTok I'll just pick on that one platform as an example you have 30,000 followers, almost 100,000 likes.

00:24:39.637 --> 00:24:41.803
You are always putting out amazing content.

00:24:41.803 --> 00:24:45.116
That just showcases how much of service you are.

00:24:45.116 --> 00:24:51.181
But as a content creator myself here with this show, I also know that it's not an easy journey.

00:24:51.181 --> 00:24:54.171
Persistence is difficult, Getting traction is difficult.

00:24:54.171 --> 00:24:59.141
Give us some insights into the way that you show up online and continue to show up online.

00:24:59.821 --> 00:25:00.222
Yeah.

00:25:00.222 --> 00:25:21.162
So I will tell you this, I uh creating content was a really great way for me to be able to do something that I can control right off the bat when it came to starting the business, because when I, as you know, you know, you'd love to wave a magic wand and have clients and customers immediately, but that's not how it works.

00:25:21.162 --> 00:25:24.056
But I had this want to be able to help people, so I was.

00:25:24.056 --> 00:25:26.661
I just said, okay, it was 2020.

00:25:26.661 --> 00:25:28.231
Everyone else was getting on TikTok.

00:25:28.231 --> 00:25:29.273
I'm like, let me try this.

00:25:29.273 --> 00:25:31.519
I'm going to just put my voice out there.

00:25:32.020 --> 00:25:38.239
First and foremost, I will tell you, pre your place at the top, I have never been a social media person.

00:25:38.239 --> 00:25:39.039
I am.

00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:42.650
I was not one to record myself and put myself out there.

00:25:42.650 --> 00:25:45.296
That was not a part of my personality.

00:25:45.296 --> 00:25:58.892
And when I started my content creation journey, oh, I still cringe to look and go back at some of the first videos that I ever posted, but there's some of the videos I'm most proud of because I just filmed them anyway and I just did it anyway.

00:25:59.133 --> 00:26:06.698
And that's my biggest piece of advice to anyone who's thinking about any kind of content creation journey is just start.

00:26:07.391 --> 00:26:16.520
The only way to get better is to continue doing it and to be able to put your knowledge and value out into the world and to find what resonates with people.

00:26:16.520 --> 00:26:25.711
But over the last few years, now that I've been doing this, you know I've had some starts and stops on that content journey.

00:26:25.711 --> 00:26:34.074
There's been times where it gets overwhelming and I've had to put my foot foot on the brake and reevaluate how I want to put that message out there.

00:26:34.074 --> 00:26:40.154
And every single time I've come back to the same thing, which is I just have to start, I just have to do it.

00:26:40.154 --> 00:26:46.451
I can't let oh, I got busy, I got busy with clients and I haven't made videos for a week.

00:26:46.451 --> 00:26:48.984
I can't let that become two weeks, three weeks a month.

00:26:48.984 --> 00:27:00.545
You just have to keep doing it and keep putting it out there and the content helps people and I love that connection that I get to folks who I would just not be connected to in any other way.

00:27:01.326 --> 00:27:02.809
Yes, absolutely Gosh.

00:27:02.809 --> 00:27:06.849
You're so preaching to the choir here because I relate so deeply to that.

00:27:06.849 --> 00:27:12.900
When I hear any of my first 100 episodes, I cringe because I'm like why were people listening back then?

00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:16.351
I'm so grateful for all of you listeners who have been here for such a long time.

00:27:16.351 --> 00:27:24.203
But, yeah, the only way I figured out my voice, my style, what this show stood for, was just by doing it, and kudos to you that.

00:27:24.203 --> 00:27:27.241
Not only do you record them, kelly, but you hit, publish.

00:27:27.382 --> 00:27:34.385
And that second piece I feel like is so underrated in the entrepreneurial and especially the content world is you can't just record it.

00:27:34.385 --> 00:27:40.108
You have to continue hitting, publish, whether you like it or not, and over time you'll start liking it at least a little bit more.

00:27:40.108 --> 00:27:41.821
So huge kudos to you, kelly.

00:27:41.821 --> 00:27:51.800
But I also want to use that as a bridge, because it shows that you are your social media content creator, you are your marketer, you are your salesperson, you are fulfilling your client projects.

00:27:51.800 --> 00:28:03.691
What are some of the aspects of the full-time entrepreneurial experience, now that you've been at it for quite some time, which, again, kudos to you what are some of those things that have surprised you, either in good ways, bad ways, and make you gone?

00:28:14.900 --> 00:28:16.423
holy cow, I didn't expect this, but I'm here, and I'm here for a while.

00:28:16.423 --> 00:28:33.082
Oh, I have to say, nothing is as I thought it would be, and I mean that in the most positive way possible when I talk about starting the entrepreneurial journey and I think, like many people who are thinking about jumping in you join the courses, you start listening to the podcasts, you start reading the books and you have this moment where you're like this is making sense to me.

00:28:33.082 --> 00:28:55.630
I think I know what to do, and then you start to do it and you realize like, oh, I know what to do, but I don't really know how to do it, and the joy that comes from getting to learn in the moment is has just brought me so much fulfillment that I never could have expected before starting this journey.

00:28:55.630 --> 00:28:58.441
And there there are a lot of pieces.

00:28:58.721 --> 00:29:20.653
I remember feeling like, when it came to sales, that this, it was just like an icky word I didn't ever want to have to take part in, until I realized, when you have a product that you love and that you believe in and that you stand by, you never have to do sales the way that we all think of it, in that used car salesman type of way.

00:29:20.653 --> 00:29:41.991
It's really just about offering to be able to help people and meeting them where they are and providing them with that solution if they need it, and those are some of the lessons that you just don't learn firsthand until you are doing it, so the learning is in the doing is probably been lesson number one.

00:29:41.991 --> 00:29:55.106
Number one and lesson number two has been thank goodness for great priority management systems, because when you're wearing all of the hats, you need an airtight to do list that you can keep track of, which I'm very grateful to have.

00:29:55.910 --> 00:30:07.047
Yes, very well said, Real entrepreneurial lessons that hearing this advice on a podcast is one thing, but living it is such a something that we can really feel to our bones.

00:30:07.047 --> 00:30:08.310
It's also a feeling.

00:30:08.310 --> 00:30:10.705
So I really appreciate those real life insights.

00:30:10.705 --> 00:30:16.548
Kelly, I want to ask you this because you talk about how much you love the learning part of the journey that we're all on.

00:30:16.548 --> 00:30:26.488
I also know through so many of these types of conversations that we're all always also experimenting, and experimentation is something that we don't talk about often enough.

00:30:26.488 --> 00:30:39.051
So I'd love, while we've got you here as a fellow entrepreneur, to ask you what are some of those things you've toyed with and played with and experimented with, and what's something that's really been working for you over the past six months, year, or even looking beyond that.

00:30:39.940 --> 00:31:04.839
Yeah, I when I so actually just recently I found my journal that I had when I first started what I thought your place at the top was going to be and I really thought it would be more of a blog content creation platform versus a coaching and consulting business at the time and that for me, wasn't working right.

00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:14.890
I was like I like putting this stuff out here, but I need to connect with people and I need to be able to provide value to them and see that client coach relationship.

00:31:14.890 --> 00:31:24.680
And so that was my first experiment was my entire business plan that I thought I had kind of went out the window within six months and I started evolving the business.

00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:32.877
But along the way there are so many different things that I thought were going to work that I ended up completely shifting on.

00:31:32.877 --> 00:32:06.909
One example is a reaching for the top community that I had created and I'm still in touch with a lot of those five members who joined that first community and the idea behind it was that we were going to go on a journey together throughout the Reaching for the Top success cycle, which is a cycle that I created to help people be able to advocate for themselves and get promoted and achieve their goals, and the idea was to be able to create this community for these people to connect together on a long-term basis.

00:32:06.909 --> 00:32:23.311
And while we had an amazing time in that community, it became very clear that this is a journey that has a stop and an endpoint throughout your career at many different points, versus something that makes sense to be an ongoing community on an ongoing basis.

00:32:23.311 --> 00:32:27.490
So I put that idea on the shelf for a little while.

00:32:27.490 --> 00:32:29.262
I moved on to some other programs.

00:32:29.262 --> 00:32:37.912
So I've always had this reaching for the top concept in the back of my mind, because there was so much good there, even if it wasn't exactly the right format.

00:32:38.980 --> 00:32:54.886
And what I am getting ready to launch is another version of reaching for the top as a on-demand course where people can really start and stop that journey in time with where they are in their career.

00:32:54.886 --> 00:32:56.769
And you know what?

00:32:56.769 --> 00:33:01.422
We might try that and say you know what, this isn't it either, and I might be coming back to you in about a year and saying you know what?

00:33:01.422 --> 00:33:05.405
We took a whole other turn and tried something else.

00:33:05.405 --> 00:33:08.410
So that's something that's currently in experiment mode.

00:33:08.961 --> 00:33:16.766
And then the last example I'll give you is our connections networking series that we do here in Connecticut.

00:33:16.766 --> 00:33:21.131
That really started from meeting with clients.

00:33:21.131 --> 00:33:25.152
I do a lot of career coaching with folks who say, kelly, my biggest challenge is networking.

00:33:25.152 --> 00:33:27.244
I know I have to do it but I hate it.

00:33:27.244 --> 00:33:30.372
It's really awkward and I have no opportunity to actually make it happen.

00:33:30.372 --> 00:33:41.489
So we created a connections networking series and we've been meeting about every other month in the area and that was something I just said.

00:33:41.489 --> 00:33:41.788
You know what?

00:33:41.788 --> 00:33:42.612
Let's try this.

00:33:42.612 --> 00:34:00.451
It may not work, we might only do one of them, and it has been one of the most overnight successful things that I have done in the business so far that I, at the moment when I planned it, never saw that it would be as successful as it has been.

00:34:00.451 --> 00:34:06.601
So I think you hit the nail on the head with you have to experiment and you have to try things, even if in the moment you're not sold on it, the market will tell you.

00:34:06.601 --> 00:34:07.057
You just have to experiment and you have to try things.

00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:25.628
Even if in the moment you're not sold on it, the market will tell you you just have to put it out there and see where it goes yeah, and to add on to that, I I so deeply appreciate the way that you talk about these things the things that work to, the things that pivoted, the things that you've played with because I think it also reveals how much you're not married to anything.

00:34:25.628 --> 00:34:27.253
You're married to whatever works.

00:34:27.253 --> 00:34:30.030
And I think that as entrepreneurs, we are so passionate.

00:34:30.030 --> 00:34:38.648
We love throwing ourselves deep into all the things that we do and all the ways that we serve people, but just letting go and saying this may or may not be the thing.

00:34:38.902 --> 00:34:43.565
When I was launching online courses back in the early 2010s, kelly, I convinced myself every time.

00:34:43.565 --> 00:34:50.940
I was like this is the one, this is Kelly.

00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:51.240
I convinced myself every time.

00:34:51.240 --> 00:34:51.920
I was like this is the one, this is the one that's just going to skyrocket my success.

00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.820
And then I quickly realized there's probably not going to be just one moment in time that creates that.

00:34:54.820 --> 00:34:56.019
It's going to be that building of momentum.

00:34:56.019 --> 00:35:00.920
So I so appreciate those real life entrepreneurial insights and, kelly, I always ask this question at the end of episodes.

00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:22.722
But I'm going to make it twice as hard for you here today because, knowing that we're listening to both entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, I'd love to ask you the one takeaway that you want to impart on listeners, and the reason why I say it's twice as hard for you is because I'm selfishly going to ask for so many of the entrepreneurs out there for one piece of advice regarding career development and career goals and aspirations.

00:35:22.722 --> 00:35:26.806
As well as for all the entrepreneurs out there, what's your best piece of advice for them?

00:35:28.369 --> 00:35:28.690
I'm going to.

00:35:28.769 --> 00:35:41.525
I'll start with the, the entrepreneurs, and I think, from an entrepreneur perspective, my advice is is keep going, never give up and never forget why you started what you are doing.

00:35:42.246 --> 00:35:56.608
To to our last conversation that we were just chatting about, to our last conversation that we were just chatting about, everything is an experiment and nothing has to make sense until you're looking at it in reverse and then all of the seeds may make sense.

00:35:56.608 --> 00:35:57.190
For you.

00:35:57.190 --> 00:36:10.726
Then, and from a entrepreneur perspective and a nine to five person looking to be able to get to the next level in their career, my number one piece of advice is to take action.

00:36:10.726 --> 00:36:26.311
Whatever is on your mind and you're on your heart to do, big or small, find a really small step that's going to get you towards that eventual point, and take action, because doing is the only way to actually get somewhere.

00:36:26.311 --> 00:36:39.793
And even if you go down that path a little bit and you realize maybe this isn't the path for me, you're going to be so grateful that you went down that path and explored it, versus never having explored it at all.

00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:47.393
Yes, really well said and poignant advice, again, I would argue, across the board, for every single one of us.

00:36:47.393 --> 00:36:49.086
So I really appreciate those.

00:36:49.086 --> 00:37:00.068
Kelly, I've teased a few of your platforms during today's episode, but I also am so excited for listeners to go check out all the amazing work that you're doing themselves, whether it's on the web, whether it's on your social.

00:37:00.068 --> 00:37:01.545
So drop those links on us.

00:37:01.545 --> 00:37:03.344
Where should listeners go from here?

00:37:04.268 --> 00:37:05.050
Absolutely.

00:37:05.050 --> 00:37:05.947
Thank you so much.

00:37:05.947 --> 00:37:21.864
You can follow me at your place at the top on all platforms, primarily LinkedIn, tiktok, instagram, and you can always visit our website at your place at the topcom to join our email list and hear about all the great things that we've got going on.

00:37:22.545 --> 00:37:31.702
Yes, listeners, and you already know the drill, we're making it as easy as possible for you to find all of Kelly's links down below in the show notes, wherever it is that you're tuning in to today's episode.

00:37:31.702 --> 00:37:33.306
But she makes it super easy for you.

00:37:33.306 --> 00:37:35.762
Her business is called your Place at the Top.

00:37:35.762 --> 00:37:42.202
You can find all her handles at your Place at the Top and her website, quite conveniently, is yourplaceatthetopcom.

00:37:42.202 --> 00:37:45.447
You can click through to those links down below in the show notes.

00:37:45.447 --> 00:37:58.153
Otherwise, kelly, on behalf of myself and all the entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs all over the world, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

00:37:58.153 --> 00:38:03.829
Thank you so much, brian hey, it's Brian here and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the entrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast.

00:38:03.829 --> 00:38:06.179
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:12.672
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom.

00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:15.449
And I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:38:15.449 --> 00:38:24.228
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:38:24.228 --> 00:38:26.288
These are not sponsored episodes.

00:38:26.288 --> 00:38:52.161
No-transcript chat.

00:38:52.161 --> 00:38:54.224
If you want to interact directly with me.

00:38:54.224 --> 00:38:58.221
Go to thewantrepreneurshowcom, initiate a live chat.

00:38:58.221 --> 00:39:07.608
It's for real me and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.