1011: The difference between ART & DESIGN and how to build the RIGHT brand w/ Kyle Kostesich

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian Lofermento, and I'll tell you what.

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We are keeping the heat going here in the first week of the new year because we are so excited to really put the fire under you and suggest the fact that you can't just be like everybody else here in 2025.

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This is going to be a year of so much growth if you know how to stand out from the crowd, and so that's why we have handpicked today's guest, because we absolutely love his work.

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It's so powerful, it's so impactful and he has a really unique approach in helping people create extraordinary brands.

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So let me tell you all about today's guest.

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His name is Kyle Kostasich.

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Kyle is an executive creative director with deep design and branding roots.

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He's spent the last 20 years navigating the complexities of the creative space to help B2B and B2C companies, so I don't care what your business is.

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Kyle has worked with similar types of businesses across industries in very numerous different sectors.

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His efforts have netted him over 25 industry awards.

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Now you're not going to be able to see his work during this episode, but I'm so excited for you to check out his work and his website afterwards, because this guy is extraordinary at what he does.

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He has extensive experience communicating with the investment community for both public and emerging companies, as he has spent the last seven years leading the branding and creative team at ICR.

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Kyle broke off from ICR in 2024 and started his own creative and branding consultancy called Gray Giant and I, just before I cue Kyle up for today's interview, I just want to read what our team saw in his messaging and his approach, that we said this guy's different and we need to have his voice on our podcast to help all of you in the new year.

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Here's what his agency's website says we work with companies that do not need no, should not spend to hire a full service agency.

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Our model tailors bespoke solutions to meet your goals, milestones and operating stage.

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You don't need a large agency to make a big impression.

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That certainly left an impression on us because Kyle is amazing at what he does, so I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Kyle Kostasich.

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All right, kyle, I'm so excited to have you here with us today.

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First things first.

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Welcome to the show.

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Hey, brian, thanks for having me.

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Heck, yeah, you've got a lot to live up to Kyle.

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We behind the scenes at this show, we love your work.

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I'm personally excited to learn from you today, but before we get there, you've got to take us beyond the bio.

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Who's Kyle?

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How'd you start doing all this great stuff?

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Oh man.

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So I've always been drawn to the artistic side of things.

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So I was that kid that was drawing on the bottom of my shoes in class, drawing on my book jacket.

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All that stuff Always took art classes.

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And I think as I got older, you know, in high school you start to think about how am I going to turn this into a career?

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Because your parents and teachers sort of start stressing you out about you need to turn this into a living.

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So initially I thought, okay, I'll go to college for architecture, I can draw houses and I can make money doing that.

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I quickly found out that architecture wasn't for me.

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The artistic side of architecture was great.

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The engineering side and making sure that houses don't fall down was not something I was really passionate about.

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So I had an older brother at the time who was in college already.

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He was majoring in graphic design and I said that looks really cool, I want to try that.

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Switched over to graphic design, fell in love with it and that was where my career started.

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So I started as a graphic designer, designing for Macy's, initially in New York City, and eventually kind of worked my way up the creative director, from art director to creative director to running a creative group.

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I love that overview, kyle, especially because that stuff it permeates through all of the work that we see from you, even still to this day.

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You start with the art, but I'm going to push you a little bit deeper there, because there's that age old question art versus science.

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And when we talk about brands, a lot of old business heads will want to talk about copywriting and emotions that we can bring up in the way that our brand shows up in the world.

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But it is a blend between the art and the science, I'd words.

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To create the design is essential.

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So the way that I put it and the way that I learned it is the verbal, the words plus the visual, equal a message in your brain.

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So without that it's not design.

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So the difference between design and art art is there to evoke emotion.

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Design is there to tell you and your brain something very specific.

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So as designers and as creative people, we are solving problems for a very specific need that a client has presented to us.

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So, while the art, the thing that we create visually, needs to resonate with people, it doesn't matter how artistic you can be if you're not solving that creative problem.

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So it is a science, it is very much problem solving that you work with a client to really achieve something and you're creating through that medium, through the words that you choose to write on the page and through the way you stylize those words and the colors you choose.

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So it's all related and it is very much a science because without it then you are just creating art and you're leaving too much up for interpretation.

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Yeah, kyle.

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I so respect the fact that this is your messaging and this is your approach, because just having gone through your work, I know how talented you are artistically and just creatively.

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But the fact that you so deeply tie it to the actual business strategic goals, as well as the actual messaging, and how you made that distinction between design, kyle, I've talked to a lot of people in the branding space.

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I'm not sure I've ever heard it so clearly, really defined right there about the difference between design and art, and so I want to push you there, because when you talk about creating all of these things, to me as someone who's not as good at the things that you are, it just it seems like magic, whereas I know that everything is intentional.

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Even if we talk about your own brand, gray Giant, the visuals that are associated with it, the fonts, everything is so intentional about the way that your company shows up in the world.

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It leads me to ask that broad question of where do we start?

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As business owners, we know internally what we hope to convey to the world, but how do we even start bringing that to life?

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Yeah, well, you can hire Grey Giant and we would love to help you, but on your own you need to.

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So you can't overlook branding and what you're trying to communicate.

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So when we work with people to establish their branding because a brand is simply just what people think about you so you need to first align on what you want people to think about you and then you need to look at all of the brand identity, the elements that make up your visual and verbal brand, and say where do we need to be on that spectrum?

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So when we're setting a company or a service or a personal brand, we go through a whole strategic exercise before we start creating.

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We call it a brand roadmap.

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We look at where you're saying your brand needs to go.

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We look at your competition, we look at the space and you want to make sure that you're always communicating within those parameters that you're putting on your brand.

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So if you want to be fun, you want to be modern.

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There are certain fonts that communicate that way.

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You're going to use Sans Serif fonts that communicate that way.

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You're going to use sans-serif fonts that are current.

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You may use all lowercase, because that's something that's that's currently going on, that people are used to seeing, whereas if you are maybe a professional services businesses, you're going to choose fonts and color palettes that feel much more serious in nature.

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So everything that you select gives off a certain personality and it's understanding where you want your personality to fit, and it's not to create something that is just an idea for a company.

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It should all be authentic, right.

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It should be what you're offering, because authenticity sells more than anything authenticity sells more than anything.

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Yeah, kyle, I'll tell you what.

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Hearing you talk about these things, it just reminds me of all those diagrams we've all seen online of the evolution of Apple's logo, for example, the evolution of Target or Google, all these brands that we all know and love.

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They have evolved over the ways as well, and so hearing you talk about kind of the all lowercase it brings to mind brands like Amazon.

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That's something that has always been a part of their look.

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How do we, as business owners, in conjunction with talented people like you, how do you balance that?

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You know, the trendy things that the market expects and that we've come to associate with those big and successful brands that we all know and love, versus the more timeless things?

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I'm thinking about even Coca-Cola, for example.

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Of course they've changed along the years, but even their retro looks we still love it.

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They still sell those on the shelves in grocery stores.

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How do we balance that timelessness versus what's working now?

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Yeah, it's funny I've actually just contributed to a conversation about this recently because there's this pressure that comes with changing trends, especially within design.

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You see it everywhere, and the internet in particular is a very copycat place.

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So someone big does something.

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Everyone does that.

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Right now there's this big push towards making everything black and white.

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You see it with even companies like Cadillac, who historically had these colors and a very detailed icon in their logo.

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They've now stripped that out.

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It's just been all black and white because that's kind of the trend.

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My recommendation is that if you are trained as a designer and you understand design principles, you should always fall back on things that make great design, great, creative, and not just lean into trends because you feel this pressure to do it, because everyone else is doing it, because that's actually how you don't create evergreen content.

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You want something that will stand the test of time, and the way to do that is to do it right and to make intentional decisions, not just kind of go with the trends of the times.

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Now you want to be aware of why trends are happening, because there may be stuff that is right for you and your business if you are part of maybe that space or something, so that you don't feel like you're not current, because you don't want to ever feel old stodgy and let other companies pass you by.

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But you also don't want to ever feel old stodgy and let other companies pass you by, but you also don't want to just be reactive to everything else that's happening.

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So as long as you're grounded in the why are we doing this and everyone is aligned with that, I think you'll find your place within that branding spectrum and not just become a fad.

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Yeah, kyle, you brought up old and stodgy, so I'm going to go there with you, because way too many businesses feel that their industry might be old and stodgy, and so that's part of what really appealed to us about inviting you on the show today is that you've worked across industries.

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It seems like if there's a business out there, you've worked with something in their space and, along those lines, for all of those people who are tuning in, who might be thinking, well, my business is old and stodgy.

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I own a web design agency, or I own, I mean, you've worked with healthcare brands, for example.

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What's more boring than healthcare?

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And financial brands?

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I mean, bank of America's branding does not get me excited and they're one of the biggest financial institutions in the country.

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So, kyle, what's your response to that?

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Especially, I'm going to interject one other variable here, because I know that you excel in this regard, and that is naming.

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Let's tie naming into there, because a lot of people will check your agency out, for example, and see Grey Giant, see the elephant visuals, see so much cool stuff that you're putting out there, but their company might be Joe's website agency, and so I'm sure naming somewhat factors into this.

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How do you navigate people through those waters?

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So there are companies like Bank of America who are intentionally old and stodgy.

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They want to feel institutional, because that's what they are right, and I think what matters is where you want to be.

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If you feel old and stodgy and you feel like that is a detriment to your business, then you should definitely look at your brand and find creative ways to improve it.

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Companies should I don't want to say rebrand, because I think people will think of that as redoing their logo but they should look at their branding critically every three to five years just to make sure that it is still current.

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And you see this from big companies too, who may even go as far as to update their logo.

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But within certain spaces, if you want to be a disrupter, then disrupt.

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Disrupt with your branding.

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Use colors that aren't typical for your space.

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Use a tone in the way that you write that evokes different emotions from all your competitors.

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Now, you don't want to do it just to disrupt.

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It just has to align with who you are as a company, but you shouldn't feel afraid to push the boundaries, as long as it still fits within your space.

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So if you're a healthcare company, you know you see a lot of the same colors in healthcare because things are triggered.

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Why not use a bright pink, like BMS did, and kind of just change what people think about it?

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Why not bring more emotionality and edge to what you're doing, because you're saying that the old way doesn't have to be the only way?

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So I think within categories that are seen as dull or boring, like finance and healthcare, there are still ways to push the envelope.

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Now, those spaces are also subject to a lot more regulations than a lot of other industries, which make it feel old and stodgy, because lawyers are now determining headlines.

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But that doesn't mean that you can't push the envelope, as long as it makes sense for your brand.

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So I guess two things Don't be afraid to try something that's different, because a lot of clients feel comfortable in the copycat nature of branding.

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I saw this company.

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They're great, let's do what they're doing.

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That's actually one of the worst things you can do, because you'll just be unnoticed by everyone.

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And then, secondly, look at your brand critically and don't be afraid to say that what we've been doing is not good enough, because, yes, you may be making money, but without investing in your brand, you're not going to continue to grow your brand and the unfortunate nature of, particularly within the B2B space, is we see a lot of leaders who say well, I don't believe in branding, we're B2B, it doesn't matter, we're not going to do that, it's just.

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It couldn't be farther from the truth.

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Yeah, I really appreciate those insights, kyle, especially because I'm super excited.

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I'm going to ask you something I've literally never asked anyone, even especially a branding expert like yourself, but you use the term disruptive, and that's something that I remember.

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I started my first business when I was 19 years old, and these are all the types of things that I would hear on podcasts, youtube videos at the time, especially business books where I'm going to take disruptive and turn it into a little bit of a different word, and that is polarizing.

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A lot of people are saying you need to be polarizing in the market.

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You need to speak so much to who it is that you want to talk to, that you have to actively repel the types of people that you didn't want to talk to.

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Well, kyle, this is what I've never talked to anyone about.

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That never sat well with me.

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I like being a little bit more neutral than that.

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I don't want to overtly repel people because, well one, I love people and, yes, I obviously know my customer avatar and I know the types of person that I'm best able to serve, but I don't want to be polarizing for polarizing sake.

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Can you walk us down that path, because it is advice that's so prevalent out there and just seeing your brand, I mean maybe I'm biased because I love your work, but I don't see those same polarizing things.

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To me it is a welcoming and inviting brand.

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It's something that we all relate to and it's visuals that, for someone like me, it says that's the type of brand that I want to build.

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Yeah, you know, I agree with you.

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I think that a lot of the polarization is the Due to the constant content that is being created social media.

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You need to do something to get attention right.

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There's constant information in front of us, particularly on social media and these scroll-stopping posts something to make you look at something that's particularly appropriate.

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Well, particularly prevalent within the B2C space.

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I think to be polarizing for a B2B company or for a company whose main focus is the investment community would be a big, big miss.

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It would be, in some cases, catastrophic, particularly for public companies.

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You don't want to do anything that's going to cause a major shift in your stock, right?

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You don't want to do anything that is going to cause people to worry.

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So I agree with you there that I think doing something like that is kind of like what we talked about with the fads you're doing it because somebody told you to do it or because you think I have to do this, where what most people react positively to is clear differentiation.

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Why do I care about your company or your product or your service?

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Do I feel like this is genuine or someone's trying to just serve me something flashy and is it useful to me?

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And those are the things that, at its core, good branding should do.

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So you know you've talked about my personal brand.

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I appreciate all the compliments, brian.

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It's very nice of you.

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You know where I sit.

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As a company, gray Giant is, in this consulting space, primarily B2B.

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It should feel likable because I think that as someone who serves clients, I work very hard to be likable to them.

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So I hope my website has a little bit of my personality in it but also feels clean and professional, because for me it's.

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You know I'm showing you I can do this right.

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So the website is a direct reflection of my work for companies, for maybe, small business owners, startups, entrepreneurs, your whatever it is that you're using to sell, whether it's your presentation, I'm very relationship based in what I do.

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People are gonna go to your website and if it looks like it was created by a high school student and has poorly communicating fonts and it doesn't give you a lot of information, it's direct reflection, whether or not it's true, on who you are as a company.

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You feel unsophisticated, you feel like you don't care.

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I can't help but think that that's the experience I'm going to get from you, whether that's true or not.

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So companies, business owners, startups, entrepreneurs should always be thinking about how their brand is curated, on anything that they're putting out into the world.

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Yeah, kyle, it speaks to one of my favorite concepts in both business and life, which is how you do.

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Anything is how you do everything, subconsciously or consciously.

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Those are the clues that we pick up on.

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You're absolutely correct.

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It's even little things for me, like when I go to a website and the footer says copyright 2019, I'm thinking have you not touched this thing in half a decade?

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Like that's mind blowing to me.

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Yeah, so that stuff bothers me, but it's because of this concept that you're talking about that.

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All of these things they they leave clues about the standards that we hold ourselves to and thus that we're going to hold ourselves to when we work with clients or customers, or in our products if we've got physical products, whatever it may be.

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So I really appreciate those insights underlying through all of this, kyle, what I'm wondering is, as you're doing this work with your clients and building these brands, it sounds like it's a little bit of a balance about what represents the companies, the people, the entrepreneurs, the business owners, the teams themselves versus and I guess I don't mean versus in the sports term, like truly against each other, but versus what are the consumers, the clients, the customers, how do they relate to it.

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How do we balance both of those elements within the brand that we're building?

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Yeah, I mean you always want to define who the audience is and for some clients they have multiple audiences and the brand needs to always ladder up to its master brand, what it is at its core, but then can pivot within those worlds.

00:21:06.159 --> 00:21:09.250
I think you used healthcare as an example earlier on.

00:21:09.250 --> 00:21:13.568
Healthcare has many different avenues of advertising and promoting itself.

00:21:13.568 --> 00:21:24.307
When they speak to HCPs, they speak very differently healthcare professionals than they do to consumers.

00:21:24.307 --> 00:21:31.652
And understanding who it is you're trying to please with your branding the client is one thing, and they may make irrational decisions and despite your best efforts, there's nothing you can do about that.

00:21:31.652 --> 00:21:40.438
But you should always try to understand who you're communicating with, what they expect to see and what you're putting out.

00:21:41.565 --> 00:21:44.252
Getting information has never been easier.

00:21:44.252 --> 00:21:54.233
Now, if you're a B2C company, there are lots of ways that you can gain insights into what consumers want to see, whether they're reacting positively to something.

00:21:54.233 --> 00:22:01.950
So not just the initial branding, but then using insights and data to understand do I need to pivot?

00:22:01.950 --> 00:22:04.614
Oh, they don't like this thing for some reason.

00:22:04.614 --> 00:22:05.750
Okay, let's go away from that.

00:22:05.750 --> 00:22:09.272
Let's go in this area where they seem to be reacting positively to it.

00:22:09.272 --> 00:22:30.113
So I'm not sure I'm answering your question directly, brian's, but I think being able to fit your brand where it belongs for each audience, the client being one of those and then being able to monitor, adjust and stay on top of your brand is essential for all companies.

00:22:30.924 --> 00:22:54.711
Yeah, kyle, I'll actually say I do think you answered the question because it's in your thought process of working it out in real time in front of us, of saying, well, you're maybe not going to get it right, but you have to be willing to reassess and adjust, and I think that that, ultimately, is the answer, because, as you were saying that and I thought about the very question that I asked, I thought to myself, well, yeah, it's impossible to build a brand that both reflects me and my exact audience.

00:22:54.711 --> 00:23:02.413
I can just do my best, put it into the world and then take it where the wind blows me from there, and I think that's a really important attitude to have.

00:23:02.413 --> 00:23:10.732
Kyle, I didn't tell you this before we hit record here today, but one of the things that, as soon as our team came across your work, we said this is something that makes Kyle different.

00:23:10.732 --> 00:23:17.765
We have to talk to him about it on the air, and that is naming Kyle.

00:23:17.765 --> 00:23:19.573
I don't know if you fully appreciate how hard that is for all of us as entrepreneurs.

00:23:19.593 --> 00:23:27.134
We get a lot of emails from listeners about naming, and I threw a little bit of shade at Joe's website agency as an off the cuff example a little bit earlier.

00:23:27.134 --> 00:23:35.371
Please talk to us about naming, because I think we've all started with some sort of silly variation of our names or initials when we first started our businesses.

00:23:35.371 --> 00:23:37.257
But take us way beyond that.

00:23:37.257 --> 00:23:42.846
What does it look like to even sit down, and what do we consider in coming up with the right name for our brands?

00:23:43.607 --> 00:23:50.207
Yeah, naming is tough because you may have a wonderful name and you may not be able to use it.

00:23:50.847 --> 00:23:58.019
There's really, initially, you want to make sure that a name is usable.

00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:15.201
So you can check the government's website, the trademark website whether or not a name if you have one that you like is available is not currently trademarked and is not really prevalent in your space.

00:24:15.201 --> 00:24:19.292
You can literally search those things on the US government website.

00:24:19.292 --> 00:24:23.651
You also want to check certain things like URLs.

00:24:23.651 --> 00:24:26.703
You want to make sure that there's not a lot of competition.

00:24:26.703 --> 00:24:33.162
So you're gonna go to Google, you're gonna search these terms and see what pops up, because you don't want to be associated with other companies or negative things.

00:24:33.523 --> 00:24:44.459
Now, the process of selecting a name, the way we go about it is we're always looking at those things, but we start very creatively.

00:24:44.459 --> 00:24:47.606
We throw a million different names at the wall.

00:24:47.606 --> 00:25:14.285
You're looking at things that are descriptive, to completely made up words, to maybe taking a nugget and insight from a client about their brand, how they thought of the name of their company or how they thought of the service offering, and maybe going down this rabbit hole on Wikipedia to understand history and say, oh, there was a Greek god named after this thing and there's a story there.

00:25:14.285 --> 00:25:19.449
So I think with names there's kind of two things.

00:25:19.449 --> 00:25:21.250
There's the does it exist?

00:25:21.250 --> 00:25:23.653
Is it a viable option?

00:25:23.653 --> 00:25:25.253
Are we going to run into trouble?

00:25:25.253 --> 00:25:30.137
Are we going to have a ton of search problems on the internet when people try to find us?

00:25:30.137 --> 00:25:32.700
And then, what's the right name for me?

00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:35.362
So you know you will.

00:25:35.362 --> 00:25:38.023
You should like your name of your company, right?

00:25:38.023 --> 00:25:45.098
So that's one area where, when we talk about problem solving in designing and creative, you should like it.

00:25:45.098 --> 00:25:49.273
You're going to say hi, my name is Kyle from X company.

00:25:49.394 --> 00:25:51.258
If you hate that name, don't pick it.

00:25:51.258 --> 00:25:56.211
But it should also reflect your brand.

00:25:56.211 --> 00:26:02.971
So if your brand is a mom and pop bakery, it can be your name and that makes perfect sense.

00:26:02.971 --> 00:26:06.855
But if you don't want to go that route, let's look at why you don't want to go that route.

00:26:06.855 --> 00:26:09.599
Okay, do you like this kind of name?

00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:10.404
Do you like this kind of name?

00:26:10.404 --> 00:26:17.676
So we typically present different buckets of names, different categories that walk you through.

00:26:17.676 --> 00:26:19.159
This is kind of extreme to.

00:26:19.159 --> 00:26:25.036
This is kind of safe, and we maybe start with I don't know 400 options.

00:26:25.036 --> 00:26:35.871
On our side we narrow that down, present about 50 to a client and we get their tolerance level for certain things, because, to your point, it's very difficult.

00:26:35.871 --> 00:26:38.846
These days People buy up all the URLs that exist.

00:26:38.846 --> 00:26:43.836
There's tons of companies in the world and it's getting harder.

00:26:43.836 --> 00:26:50.997
So to do that in one or two words, which is typically what you want, does get more difficult.

00:26:50.997 --> 00:26:52.868
But it's a process, it's a creative process.

00:26:53.432 --> 00:26:56.084
Yeah, kyle, can you give us some examples of some of those buckets?

00:26:56.084 --> 00:26:57.188
Because I'll just give you.

00:26:57.188 --> 00:27:04.577
One example of what I always struggle with is I think about my favorite brands and their names have nothing to do with what they are.

00:27:04.577 --> 00:27:12.788
For example, when I think about a financial brand that really visually appealed to me as a consumer, and one that their user interface was amazing, was Mint.

00:27:12.788 --> 00:27:14.791
What does Mint have to do with financial?

00:27:14.791 --> 00:27:17.136
It's just something that they came up with, a great name.

00:27:17.136 --> 00:27:21.627
They grew it really rapidly and they've since been acquired, and so that was a really successful brand.

00:27:21.627 --> 00:27:27.508
But then, on the flip side, you can go the all too literal route of Joe's website design agency.

00:27:27.508 --> 00:27:29.511
So what are some examples of those buckets?

00:27:30.653 --> 00:27:37.063
Yeah, I mean you have companies that are descriptive of what they are, like Dunkin Donuts right now.

00:27:37.063 --> 00:27:40.616
Shorten it to Duncan recently, but Dunkin Donuts were selling doughnuts.

00:27:40.616 --> 00:27:46.352
You have things that are more out there, like Nike.

00:27:46.352 --> 00:27:52.089
Nike does not, is not called Nike shoes, it just when it was invented it was Nike.

00:27:52.089 --> 00:27:57.053
It was named after a Greek goddess and there was something you had to inform behind that.

00:27:57.053 --> 00:28:05.147
And then there are completely made up words, words that didn't exist.

00:28:05.147 --> 00:28:05.950
Maybe it's a combination of two things.

00:28:05.970 --> 00:28:25.165
So we look at these buckets and you kind of go from the safe and stayed descriptive terms as like this is the safe side of the house to going and trying to play with maybe letters or phrases that shouldn't be together all the way on the other side of the spectrum.

00:28:25.165 --> 00:28:39.619
So we kind of have like four buckets there that we try different names in those different columns and you may be surprised by which type of name you gravitate towards.

00:28:39.619 --> 00:28:41.288
But there's also categories.

00:28:41.288 --> 00:28:56.355
You know, within tech they kind of play in this like this is a made up word or this is kind of disjointed from what we do, like Mint Mobile, because it's you know, it's short, their logo is going to be designed a certain way and it feels category appropriate.

00:28:56.355 --> 00:29:02.112
So, once again, we always want to play within your space.

00:29:02.112 --> 00:29:06.469
When we are thinking of whether it's a name, a logo, we want to make sure that it fits the category.

00:29:06.509 --> 00:29:23.194
But there are definitely categories that are a little more experimental with their names and comfortable being a little more off the wall or maybe not informative, and I think that's a very important thing to understand.

00:29:23.194 --> 00:29:29.713
We run into this a lot, not with names, but with logos is that clients often think my logo has to tell my whole story.

00:29:29.713 --> 00:29:35.576
This is my chance to draw this thing that puts all my service offerings, and that's not the case.

00:29:35.576 --> 00:29:38.809
Your name, your logo, it's your signature of the company.

00:29:38.809 --> 00:29:45.050
You're signing it and everything that you create marketing-wise is the greater context.

00:29:45.050 --> 00:29:58.079
You just need to look at the name of your company as something that is reflective of you, feels appropriate, that you love and that you can put on a business card and be happy with, and has little to no competition.

00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:05.298
So it's a tough bar to clear, for sure, but it's possible and it's a fun exercise.

00:30:05.865 --> 00:30:07.715
Yeah, I love the way you articulate that about.

00:30:07.715 --> 00:30:14.807
You know our logo being our signature, for example, and it's important within these projects because they feel like things will never overcome.

00:30:14.807 --> 00:30:19.357
But we have to realize and put it into context of what it is and how it's going to be used.

00:30:19.357 --> 00:30:31.644
And that leads me right into my next question, kyle, which I've been so excited to ask you about, because a lot of people hearing you today will say, gosh, I didn't realize I could work with someone to walk me through these difficult challenges.

00:30:31.644 --> 00:30:45.902
And so, having gone through the way that you set Gray Giant up, it just seems to me like you've also been so intentional about the way Gray Giant works, and I know that you, coming from the agency world, that influenced a lot of the way that you set your model up.

00:30:45.902 --> 00:30:52.153
So I'd love for you to talk to us about the way that you service your clients and the way that you're different from the agency side of the world.

00:30:53.346 --> 00:31:02.019
Yeah, you know, I think I don't want to completely crap on agencies, because I was in that world and there are so many talented people working at agencies.

00:31:02.019 --> 00:31:03.625
But agencies have flaws, right.

00:31:03.625 --> 00:31:10.855
They have a lot of meetings, there's a lot of bloat, there's a lot of overhead, there's a lot of things they have to pay for for the agency to exist.

00:31:10.855 --> 00:31:16.173
So essentially, what I do is strip out all of that bloat right.

00:31:16.213 --> 00:31:21.107
When you work with an agency at a project level, you get down to a small team.

00:31:21.107 --> 00:31:24.336
You're not working with the whole agency on something.

00:31:24.336 --> 00:31:35.791
You may tap production or ask another person a question every once in a while, but you're working with a small team of creatives to solve your problem, and that's what I do.

00:31:35.791 --> 00:32:18.701
Now I'm able to not at an agency, focus on a smaller group of clients, which is amazing because I can now go deeper into your brand, whereas before, if I'm servicing 2030 clients, you know I can only go surface level deep, and then you delegate and it goes down the ladder and you know you're dealing with maybe good creatives, but people who have not been doing it as long, whereas I am actively working with my clients on all of their needs and then I am leveling up, meaning that I have made so many relationships with great writers, with great art directors over the years that, as I need to pull them in, I'm able to pull them in to help create something great.

00:32:18.980 --> 00:32:26.306
So the people that I work with are not typically very junior, so you have access to a much more senior team.

00:32:26.306 --> 00:32:36.954
I am going to be involved in every project that I take on intentionally, because I think that's when projects fall off is when they get delegated to junior people who are more affordable.

00:32:36.954 --> 00:33:04.743
So I think it's just the idea of being able to free up more of my time by taking on less clients to be able to provide quality work and then leveraging my networks whether it be with companies that I really trust that can help execute a creative idea, or direct creative people that I know are going to do a fabulous job, and bring them on to be additive to the process.

00:33:04.743 --> 00:33:14.388
It's just something I think that really has been able to allow us to make better work for our clients in a lot of cases.

00:33:14.388 --> 00:33:16.500
So, yeah, that's my model.

00:33:17.095 --> 00:33:22.988
Yeah, I really appreciate those insights of behind the hood, because I know that a lot of people are going to be super excited to check that out.

00:33:23.296 --> 00:33:26.766
Part of what I think it also speaks to is the accessibility of it.

00:33:26.766 --> 00:33:45.445
I love the fact that you directly address the fractional nature of hey, if you need this, we are in your corner, we're accessible to you without needing to sign up for a $50,000 branding project, and so I love the fact that you're bringing these services, kyle, to everybody who needs it at all different stages of their entrepreneurial journeys.

00:33:45.445 --> 00:33:46.655
I think that's super important.

00:33:46.655 --> 00:33:48.760
So we're going to drop your links in just a minute.

00:33:48.760 --> 00:34:06.862
Listeners, you already know that you can find those down in the show notes, but before we get there, I always love asking this super broad question at the end, because you can take in any direction you want, and that is what's that one takeaway, the one piece of advice or the one action that you want to impart on all of our listeners, knowing that they're at different stages of their business growth journeys?

00:34:06.862 --> 00:34:08.884
What's that one thing you want to leave them with?

00:34:10.467 --> 00:34:20.501
Wow, you know I would say I've worked so hard for companies in the past and I have two daughters who are in elementary school and it can quickly.

00:34:20.521 --> 00:34:45.315
You can get caught up in work and for me, I live in the New York City area and the commute itself is two or three hours a day and you know, at the end of the day you think back on all those years that you've worked hard to raise money for other people and you don't care about any of the projects that you necessarily worked till one in the morning on right.

00:34:45.835 --> 00:35:32.197
It's the being able to do great work with great people that you remember from a work side and then being able to balance that with your life right, and that's, for me, the main reason that I became an entrepreneur and started my own business was that there is this balance that can exist between knowing what you're good at, doing that for good people, and then having a life outside of work right, because everyone looks at success differently and there's the monetary side of things, but you know, at the end of the day, it's being able to be happy, to be able to spend time with the people you love and be able to then also do great, memorable work and look back on it and say you know, that was a great person.

00:35:32.197 --> 00:35:33.663
I loved working with her.

00:35:33.663 --> 00:35:41.655
I hope she's doing well Right, and that's the kind of stuff that ultimately stands out, not all the grunt work that you did in the beginning of your career.

00:35:42.376 --> 00:36:01.255
Yes, so well said and for all of us, especially here in this new year, if you're envisioning entrepreneurial success and the freedom that comes with it, I love Kyle's really grounded advice there for all of us about the impact of our work and the good feelings that come with those things of just helping other people get closer to where they want to be.

00:36:01.255 --> 00:36:03.606
So, kyle, you're a living example of that.

00:36:03.606 --> 00:36:11.443
Before I kick things your way to drop those links on us, I also personally just want to tell listeners that I mean it when I say I'm a big fan of the work that you do.

00:36:11.443 --> 00:36:25.385
I love the brand that you've built for yourself and through Gray Giant, and part of that is not just I'm not just stroking your ego here today from a design perspective and typography and all of that, but really in the way that your brand shows up.

00:36:25.465 --> 00:36:36.695
Listeners, when you go to Kyle's website, you're going to find an entire section called Insights and Ideas, and this is just Kyle showing up in the way that you saw him show up here in today's conversation.

00:36:36.695 --> 00:36:43.088
You'll see articles and resources like five rebrands that we hated, five rebrands that we loved.

00:36:43.088 --> 00:36:44.398
What makes a great logo?

00:36:44.398 --> 00:36:46.885
What should your investor presentations accomplish?

00:36:46.885 --> 00:36:50.945
So much of Kyle's brain is there for you as a resource.

00:36:50.945 --> 00:36:58.079
Through the way that Gray Giant says, you know what we want to create a stampede of great brands, and we want this to be part of our impact in the world.

00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:01.759
So, kyle, queuing you up there, I guess that's the easiest segue ever for you.

00:37:01.759 --> 00:37:02.862
Drop those links on us.

00:37:02.862 --> 00:37:04.286
Where should listeners go from here?

00:37:05.414 --> 00:37:06.157
Yeah, thanks, brian.

00:37:06.157 --> 00:37:14.003
I appreciate all that and you know I'm happy to share my thoughts with the world in a way that I hope is digestible for people.

00:37:14.003 --> 00:37:18.338
But, yeah, please do visit us at gray-giantcom.

00:37:18.338 --> 00:37:22.987
You can find me also on my personal site, kylekostasichcom.

00:37:22.987 --> 00:37:36.068
And our newest service offering, which is more of a productized service we haven't talked a lot about, which is design mammothcom, so that is more of like I need unlimited design resources.

00:37:36.068 --> 00:37:38.336
We're happy to provide those to you as well.

00:37:38.336 --> 00:37:41.206
But, yeah, my main site, gray-giantcom.

00:37:41.887 --> 00:37:42.329
Boom.

00:37:42.329 --> 00:37:43.934
Listeners, you already know the drill.

00:37:43.934 --> 00:37:47.106
We're making it as easy as possible for you to find all of those links.

00:37:47.106 --> 00:37:50.840
As well as that is a brand new service from Kyle.

00:37:50.840 --> 00:38:03.815
So if you want those unlimited design opportunities for you and you want to leverage Kyle's team and his mind and all of his experiences and all the great things, then definitely check out the show notes wherever it is that you're tuning into today's episode.

00:38:03.815 --> 00:38:09.967
His main website is at gray-giantcom, but you can click right on through from the show notes.

00:38:09.967 --> 00:38:16.431
So, kyle, on behalf of myself and all the listeners worldwide, thanks so much for coming on the show today thanks, brian.

00:38:16.452 --> 00:38:17.215
It was great talking to you.

00:38:17.235 --> 00:38:24.581
I had fun hey, it's brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the entrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast.

00:38:24.581 --> 00:38:28.577
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:38:28.577 --> 00:38:35.326
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom.

00:38:35.326 --> 00:38:37.778
And I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:38:37.778 --> 00:38:46.547
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:38:46.655 --> 00:38:48.619
These are not sponsored episodes.

00:38:48.619 --> 00:38:50.204
These are not infomercials.

00:38:50.204 --> 00:38:53.699
Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.

00:38:53.699 --> 00:39:04.661
They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.

00:39:04.661 --> 00:39:13.166
So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.

00:39:13.166 --> 00:39:14.507
We also have live chat.

00:39:14.507 --> 00:39:19.105
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00:39:19.105 --> 00:39:20.507
Initiate a live chat.

00:39:20.507 --> 00:39:29.929
It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.