875: Turning your HOBBY into a FULL-TIME business w/ Lin Meyer

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and I am joined today by an entrepreneur that, in so many ways, I feel like, exemplifies the exact reason why Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur exists, because this is someone who not only is incredibly gifted from a skills perspective and not only shows up from a place of service to others, but this is someone who has turned his hobby into a business, and I'm so excited for all of us to learn more about his journey and about his business's journey.

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So today's guest his name is Lynn Meyer.

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Lynn is an IT industry professional with over a decade of experience in IT, software development, the cloud and more.

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Now he has a really interesting career journey.

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He started his career in 2010 by joining the United States Navy, working in one of the largest naval data centers in the world, providing IT services to the Atlantic fleet.

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After leaving the Navy, lin spent 10 plus years working for various large companies and startups as a software and infrastructure engineer, living overseas in Germany for a few years and is now working full-time on his solopreneur business crucial exams out of the Chicago area.

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Outside of work, lin enjoys several hobbies like gardening, brewing beer and working on open software, which I love.

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The fact that his hobbies are so near and dear to his heart, because he actually started his business as a hobby all the way back in 2011.

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But this year he has now become a full-time entrepreneur, so there's so much that we're going to learn from Lynn today.

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I'm excited about this one.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Lynn Meyer.

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All right, lynn, I am so excited that you're here with us.

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Welcome to the show.

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Thank you Very, very excited to be here Appreciate it.

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That was a great intro too, by the way, thank, you.

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The reality is, lynn, I've obviously looked deep into your work.

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There's so much more that I could brag about that.

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I already know the conversation is going to go some places like we'll be talking about app development, launches, freemium models, all that stuff.

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But before we get there, take us beyond the bio.

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Who's Lynn?

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How did you start doing all these cool things that you get to do today.

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Yeah, so I've always been really interested in computers.

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I grew up in a small town in Northern Illinois.

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My parents were really encouraging, you know bought me a computer when I was young.

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Really, let me, like, take apart the family computer, learn the program, learn how it worked, probably broke it any number of times.

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School was never really my thing, so I ended up joining the military, where I was fortunate enough to get a job as an IT, and then I got to work in a huge data center in the East Coast, which was just perfect for me.

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So I've always really, really loved computers and just been lucky enough that it's been able to have a good career.

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And, yeah, I've always been very driven.

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So turning my hobby into work, which is something I did a month ago, was very, very exciting and it's just been a crazy, crazy journey.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I love that, especially because I personally relate so much to your journey, lynn, especially timeline wise.

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So I started my first business in 2008, when I was a freshman in college, and that was just a soccer blog.

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Why?

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Because I loved writing.

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I love the internet and I love soccer.

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So why not write about soccer on the internet?

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And it's crazy what it grew into.

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I could have never foreseen any of that, and I want you to take us back, because I know that your personal beginnings with crucial exams also started out from your own personal need when it came to an exam that you were prepping for.

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Take us back to 2011.

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Before we talk about modern day, what the heck were you up to?

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What were you developing for fun?

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So 2010,.

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When I finished boot camp and I did training, I was very, very lucky that I was in the first cohort of what was called the IT of the future program, and so this was the Navy's program, switching from kind of their own in-house computer and computer networking training system to one that was based off of commercial standards, and so they were teaching, you know, the same types of things that you would learn in college, for example.

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So if you were looking to get a degree in computer science very similar and that was new, and I was I was a part of the first class, just by fluke, based on timing, and after that I really enjoyed the certificates.

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So while I was working in 2011, a year later, I had finished training.

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They would continue to pay for industry certs like those from Microsoft, CompTIA or Cisco, as long as they were relevant to your job, which for me they were.

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So I was working frequently.

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A lot of times I would work the evening or the night shift in the data center, which could be busy or could be really slow.

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So I took that time to keep focusing and keep getting more certificates in various things, from, you know, computer hardware to networking, to cybersecurity.

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Now, none of the certs I was really doing at the time were related to software development, but I had always enjoyed programming.

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So what I started doing as a way to kind of keep the studying interesting for myself was I started actually developing a platform to kind of quiz myself.

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So, where you know, just think a simple app or a simple website that would ask me questions and I would answer it and it would give me a grade and say, hey, you're right or wrong.

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And eventually that grew to something me and other people were actually using at work in our in our slow days, and so I put it online and I added Google ads to it and I probably took months and months, but eventually I made my first $100 and got to pay out that same year in 2011.

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And it just sort of grew from there.

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But it was always something I did in the background until very recently.

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Yeah, Lynn, it's funny, I don't think I ask people this question very often, but I do.

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Like I said, I relate so much to so many aspects of your entrepreneurial journey and I guess the question that I'm dying to ask you because I know that I feel this way and I don't think we have this conversation openly enough in the world of entrepreneurship is I know that I wasn't treating my business like a business out of the gates.

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I treated it like a hobby.

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And somewhere along the way you talk about your first $100.

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So in six months I made my first $200.

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Lynn, I thought I was rolling in it, and so to me, that was enough for me to feel like, wait, there's at least potential here.

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Maybe I should start treating like a business, or at least viewing it like a business.

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Talk to me about that mindset, because obviously we've used the word hobby.

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Obviously you are fully aware now, because you've helped so many people, that it is a business.

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What did that?

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mindset transition look like and what helped that transition?

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Yeah, man, I think it really switched to a real business a year ago.

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And so I mean, that's 10 years 10 years it was, you know.

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I might tell people like, oh, it was a side gig.

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I used it as a way to kind of learn new paradigms or play with new technologies when in my software development career, like if I wanted to try something out and put it on my resume, it was sort of a playground for that.

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But that was it.

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It really was just something.

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I made some income on the side and I really didn't take it that seriously until a year ago.

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And the big thing for me was that I had moved in my career to the point I really had nowhere else to go but management.

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But I'm a very hands-on person, I'm an engineer, I like building stuff, and so once I took on that management role, I kind of felt myself slipping away from what drove me to choose this career in the first place.

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And around that same time Google ads really started paying less.

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I've always kind of had a problem with it because my users are very technical, so like they know how to install an ad blocker and I use an ad blocker too, so I totally don't blame them for that by any means.

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And I was just kind of talking about it with my wife and I was like man I could really use like an exit strategy here, and she was very, very encouraging and she was like you know what you're doing.

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You know you've always been cautious about charging people and dealing with credit cards, but you deal with that stuff at work all the time Like why don't you give it a shot?

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And so I did, and I started adding features and basically putting them behind a paywall.

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So it was still free for a long time and eventually it just, it just really took off.

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The biggest mistake I made was pricing myself too low, both from free with ads and even when I started charging people.

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The subscription was $1.99 a month, which was just way, way too low.

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Looking back, but live and learn.

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Yeah, for sure, is that $1.99 per month?

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Is that what?

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we're talking.

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Yeah, yeah, just wanted to clarify that for listeners.

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Trust me, we've all been there.

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We, yeah, yeah, just wanted to clarify that for listeners.

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Trust me, we've all been there.

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We've all undercharged.

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Like I said, six months and I closed a $200 ad deal.

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I was pumped.

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I thought $200 was so much money, and so I love that story, lynn, especially because you use the words a few times of you started to take it more seriously, and part of that is you've already shared with us that business model transition from an ad-based platform to a premium app and a real service for people who are studying for the CompTIA exam.

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With that in mind, I'd love to know the way that Lynn not only the software developer and someone who is incredible at what you do, but Lynn, the business owner what did taking it more seriously look like?

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Were you asking yourself different questions?

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Did you start measuring your growth and your success journey differently?

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I'd love to get into the mind of that view.

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Yeah, you know, I've had Google Analytics on the website forever and then also, it being ad based, I could see how many ad displays there were and things like that.

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So I always kind of had some data, but I never really took it too seriously.

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I never tracked like a conversion or anything.

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I mean it was free for a long time so there kind of wasn't really a conversion to track.

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But learning metrics like that was big.

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In my career most recent position, I was what's called the site reliability engineer, so I basically worked with infrastructure people and other software engineers to look at all of the data that they have on how are servers performing, what are you using for processing power, how many errors versus how many successful API calls are you getting, and things like that.

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And so I was pretty good at actually making graphs and looking at data and kind of cutting through the noise into the to find what really helps you.

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And so what I did is I basically took those same tools that I used at work and I started using them for Crucial as well and looking at things like conversion rates, looking at things like what are my users doing the most?

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I can guess, but CompTIA has many certs.

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I mean, there's A+, network+ and Security+ are the three big ones, but there's tons more out there.

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But if I'm going to focus on creating content, where should I focus, right?

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Like, what are people actually using?

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And not just that, but what are people that aren't paying using versus the paying customers?

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Because those are the ones I wanted to focus on, right?

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So, like, are the paying customers using the website in a different way than the people who are still in the free tier?

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And it turns out that actually, yes, they were, and so that really drove me on what I need to focus on and where I need to improve.

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There's still tons of things on the platform and the website that I want to fix, or maybe not fix, but just adjust to make better.

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But when you're on your own, you have to prioritize.

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You don't have time to do it all.

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So having that data and having really nice graphs and being able to really focus on the right thing is critical.

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Yeah, I really appreciate those insights.

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Listeners, I'm going to call this out because not only is Lynn being so open and transparent in the way that he thinks about business, but I think what's on display right here in our conversation is when I ask Lynn, what did it look like for you to take it more seriously?

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You, instead of talking about yourself taking it more seriously, you looked at your customers' data and you said how can I more deeply serve them?

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And I think that that's so revealing, of course, about your success.

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I always say that success leaves clues, and it's no secret.

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So many amazing entrepreneurs, when they come on, they want to talk about their customers, because that's what's going to determine the success or failure of our business.

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So, lynn, I love hearing those insights.

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I also know that when it comes to software or apps or development of anything, we hear so much different advice out there.

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Mvp minimum viable product is something that we hear so much about you.

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It sounds like you fully embrace, from a mindset perspective, the evolutionary process of life, of development of business, and so, with that in mind, I feel like it probably benefited you that it started as a hobby, that you didn't hesitate to launch this because you were playing around with your skills.

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You were playing around with something that served yourself.

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What has that process looked like, especially when you hear all that noise about MVPs and when's the right time to launch and so many companies want to go and get seed money?

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What's your attitude towards all that, lynn?

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I struggle with it more now because it was primarily a hobby.

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It was like like originally there was no login and I said I want to learn how to build a login system and I want to learn how to, you know, secure my database 10 years ago so that I can store passwords.

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And so I was adding features based on just like what I thought would be interesting to build, and some of them got used and some of them didn't.

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And then, as life got busier, sometimes I wouldn't be able to maintain them and I would have to take something away or turn something off, and then I would have users complain but it was like well, they're not paying anything and I don't have time to fix this or upgrade this or whatever.

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So I actually struggle more with that now in the last month since going full time.

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But I think my mantra is automate everything you can, but you don't need to automate everything day one, right?

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So whether you call an MVP or agile or iterative software development, whatever, start small with something that you feel is a good user experience and then build up from there.

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And that means looking at data, that means taking user feedback, and also you may have a vision that even the customer may not see for where you want this to go, but you don't have to do it all day one because you'll just you'll never feel it's ready, I think, or at least I never feel it's ready when I look at it like that.

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So I try and give myself a.

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If I was a user, what would I want?

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And then go from there and add more over time, because the more mature I get as a person and as an entrepreneur, the more I realize that when we talk about scalability, a lot of it is leveraging our resources.

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We only have so much time and, lynn, I'm just like you in the fact that I love being hands-on in my business.

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I love my business, that's why I do business, and so many of our listeners can relate to that.

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When you talk about automating things, though, what are those things that you look to automate?

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Yeah, so for me as a technical person, when I save code, I want to get it out there on my servers immediately, and that was my job in my career, so it's easy to say that's kind of an automated thing, right.

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But I deploy a new version of my website three, four times a day, you know, and sometimes it's more focusing on content.

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Maybe I'm not developing or bug fixing, but that's definitely one way that I automate that.

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I'm not out there like installing updates on servers.

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I've built a process that it just rolls itself out automatically.

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But even in the product itself, if I want to do a deal, for example, I'll use an email campaign and when I add that to my backend in my system, it will send that email campaign out automatically without me having to go type up an email and do it all.

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We've also very recently started using artificial intelligence.

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I know it's everybody's big, big thing right now.

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I would not say we're an AI product.

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I don't want us to be an AI product, but I'm using AI behind the scenes to help me kind of with creative writing areas that you know me being more engineering focused.

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I struggle with stuff like that, and using that as a way to automate.

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Content creation is huge to where now, instead of me sitting all day trying to think of what's a good practice question for how to make a network or how to fix a network or something like that that my users would need, and instead I can automate automate that and I have hundreds and hundreds of pre-created content that I just have to kind of play like quality assurance person on.

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Or now, instead of writing the content, I'm sort of like the editor, you know.

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So I'm not blasting AI content out, I am still reviewing it, but that is so much faster than me trying to write it myself, right?

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So anytime I'm doing something that I'm going to do twice, I try and think like, should I automate this?

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And the answer is almost always yes.

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It may not be day one, I might still do something manually for weeks or months, but it's always in the back of my mind Like I don't want to hire people, right, because that's a huge burden on a small business like mine.

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So instead it's how can I automate this myself so that I never have to think about that?

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problem ever again.

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Yeah, I love those insights, especially because, again, it's that level of intentionality of am I going to do this more than once?

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If so, can I and should I automate it?

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So it's that recognition of how you're spending your time, what you're spending your time on, and then how are you going to allocate your resources from there, which, to me, I always think back to my immature days as an entrepreneur.

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I started as a teenager and in my early twenties there were a lot of things I didn't understand and still to this day, we're all always learning.

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But one of those things, lynn, is that age old advice of niche down the riches are in the niches.

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And so for you, knowing how incredible you are, obviously at the technical aspect of all this, obviously when you layer on, automation, scale becomes a heck of a lot more possible for you.

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And then when you introduce AI, it probably a lot of people would say well, lynn, why don't you apply this to?

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You know architectural exams?

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You could roll that out and you could roll it out to other things, but you've really found an awesome niche.

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What's your experience and what's your thought process?

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That goes around niching Because you love your niche.

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It's a niche that you're familiar with, so why not expand, lynn?

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This is.

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It's such a good question, it's something you know.

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So I've been full-time in this for five weeks.

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I think this is week five, but I'm already thinking about that because ultimately to get into, yeah, architecture or I don't know, nursing certificates I'm sure there's tons of other industries right I would need a partner who can kind of vet that information, or, I don't know, a contractor, employee, whatever.

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And I've really struggled with I know that I want to do that.

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I don't know what direction I'll go exactly, but whether I make a new website using the same technology and basically just deploy two copies of my website with different content.

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Where crucial exam stays the CompTIA IT world one, or maybe we add it into that same one, but then we do, we lose that niche and I think that's huge and I think it's so easy to look at it and say like, why don't you add this, why don't you add this, why don't you add this?

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And it takes away from what it is.

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And now my messaging on the homepage becomes a lot less clear.

00:18:33.895 --> 00:18:36.384
Right now it's Screams CompTIA IT.

00:18:36.384 --> 00:18:38.009
That's who this is for.

00:18:38.009 --> 00:18:41.277
And I think if we added all of those other things, it gets muddier.

00:18:41.557 --> 00:18:43.138
But at the same time now.

00:18:43.138 --> 00:18:49.065
I'm expanding and I have more potential customers, so I'm honestly it's something that I want to do.

00:18:49.065 --> 00:18:50.185
It's definitely on my mind.

00:18:50.185 --> 00:18:55.451
I'm still undecided exactly how I'm going to do it, and maybe I do a bit of both.

00:18:55.451 --> 00:19:09.321
You know, maybe I go into one industry by making a whole new platform using the technology, using the same code base, but with different messages, with different content and so on, and then maybe I'll add some to the existing one and kind of see what performs better.

00:19:09.321 --> 00:19:12.868
But it's a question I'm asking myself every day right now, for sure.

00:19:13.494 --> 00:19:13.615
Heck.

00:19:13.615 --> 00:19:26.682
Yes, that's the sort of real insights that I so appreciate from our guests, because listeners might think that there's always an answer to these business problems, but I think that you just portrayed in real time for us that you don't have an answer, and that's perfectly okay.

00:19:26.682 --> 00:19:28.445
But, yeah, you will figure it out.

00:19:28.445 --> 00:19:37.765
And I think that's such an important part of the entrepreneurial journey is that recognition and the okay admission of yeah, right now I'm focusing on my lane and here's what my lane is.

00:19:37.765 --> 00:19:41.864
There's a heck of a lot of ideas out on the peripheries, but you'll get there when you get there.

00:19:41.864 --> 00:19:45.659
So I love that attitude, which I'm sure that you also arrive there.

00:19:45.699 --> 00:19:50.424
When it comes to your business model, we talked about going from an ad-based platform to the premium model.

00:19:50.424 --> 00:19:59.810
Walk us through that, because a lot of people look at software programs and platforms as well as apps and they wonder how the heck do I monetize this stuff?

00:19:59.810 --> 00:20:06.240
What's been your thought process there, what have you learned about it and what's really driven your decisions to where you are today in the premium model?

00:20:07.565 --> 00:20:08.990
Yeah.

00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:17.463
So we have an interesting setup and I don't plan on keeping it like this forever, but we have a subscription that gets you full access to the platform.

00:20:17.463 --> 00:20:23.260
That's a monthly subscription or for, I think, five or six times that monthly subscription price.

00:20:23.260 --> 00:20:24.661
There is a lifetime deal.

00:20:24.661 --> 00:20:36.628
That lifetime deal is what's driven most of the revenue, but I also understand that server costs and electrical costs, things like that, will always exist.

00:20:36.628 --> 00:20:42.865
So that lifetime model will slowly chip away and I can look at it right now and say like, oh, this is the profit I made.

00:20:42.865 --> 00:20:50.319
But a year from now, if that user is still using the platform, they have a lifetime deal Like they've already paid and now they're only costing me money.

00:20:51.201 --> 00:21:01.083
I do think one nice thing for my area is that it is entry-level certs, so the chances of a customer coming back in a year are actually fairly slim.

00:21:01.083 --> 00:21:09.098
Some industries do require that you keep your certs up to date, especially if you work in the government or the DOD or something like that, but most people you get the cert.

00:21:09.098 --> 00:21:10.260
It gets your foot in the door.

00:21:10.260 --> 00:21:15.078
Then you have X years of experience and you don't really need this particular cert anymore.

00:21:15.078 --> 00:21:22.544
So I don't think the lifetime deal is necessarily a bad thing, but it's been a really, really good way for me to drive revenue early on.

00:21:22.544 --> 00:21:28.686
But the ultimate goal is to have a subscription model with something like monthly subscription and yearly subscription.

00:21:30.714 --> 00:21:35.511
Another thing that really differentiates me from my competitors is that you get full access to what I have.

00:21:35.993 --> 00:21:39.907
So if you're studying for two certs at once, you're not paying me two fees.

00:21:39.907 --> 00:21:47.016
If you plan on knocking them out really quick, you could pay me for one month and knock out all of them, all of the certs that you want to do.

00:21:47.016 --> 00:22:03.242
Most people can't because life you just can't do that many, but some people really do move that quick, whereas a lot of my competitors charge a one-time fee, and that is something that differentiates us and that's a lot of feedback that I get from my users is that they're always really thrilled.

00:22:03.242 --> 00:22:10.544
I really need to put it on my website as like a frequently asked question, because that's like my number one support question is do I really get all of this?

00:22:10.544 --> 00:22:15.410
If I subscribe and you guys add something new, do I automatically get that?

00:22:15.410 --> 00:22:20.996
And the answer is simply yes, and so that subscription model is definitely it's not unique to the SaaS world.

00:22:20.996 --> 00:22:29.358
I would say it's pretty unique to my area with IT certs and test prep, though I don't know if anyone else is really doing that actually.

00:22:29.859 --> 00:22:32.425
Yeah, it is interesting and I think about my sister, for example.

00:22:32.425 --> 00:22:40.856
She just graduated from veterinarian school and the amount of exams they have to take and she did her surgical rotation in Colorado.

00:22:40.856 --> 00:22:43.163
Now she's doing her clinical year in Virginia.

00:22:43.163 --> 00:22:52.567
There's so much that goes into it and exams every single step of the way, so it's super unique to hear the model that you've arrived at and I think it's again, it's really customer focused.

00:22:52.567 --> 00:22:55.336
With that in mind, you talk about when you add new things.

00:22:55.336 --> 00:22:58.490
That's all baked into it, which, again, is just a huge benefit to them.

00:22:58.971 --> 00:23:04.316
Talk to us about those features, because I know that Crucial Exams has evolved along the way You've rolled out new features.

00:23:04.316 --> 00:23:08.207
You take us back to the heydays of it where you didn't even have a login page.

00:23:08.207 --> 00:23:08.287
What?

00:23:08.287 --> 00:23:09.768
Back to the heydays of it, where you didn't even have a login page.

00:23:09.768 --> 00:23:11.729
What is your thought process when it comes to rolling out new features?

00:23:11.729 --> 00:23:20.416
Are these things that you just have a huge idea board and you pick off the ones that make sense, or is there some sort of short term and long term strategy behind it all?

00:23:22.361 --> 00:23:22.882
It is.

00:23:22.882 --> 00:23:24.464
It's a little bit of both there are.

00:23:24.464 --> 00:23:32.695
There are things that I know that they will students will see on the real exam that we don't have yet or that we have.

00:23:32.695 --> 00:23:45.839
But it's a little different and the idea is, you know, we want to give them as close to the real thing but in a safe sandbox environment where, if they fail, they're not out 300 plus dollars and they have to go take the dessert again, right?

00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:54.664
So it's often kind of I mean, saying, mimicking sounds strange, but it's often just trying to mimic what the real deal looks like.

00:23:54.664 --> 00:23:55.548
Like.

00:23:55.548 --> 00:24:14.708
Yesterday, for example, I redesigned our test interface to look a lot closer to what the real one, when they take the CompTIA cert, will be, and part of that is actually because, now that we're no longer in an ad model, I have a lot more screen real estate to work with because I don't need to show ads, which is really nice from a user perspective.

00:24:15.776 --> 00:24:20.807
But then also, sometimes it's just what do I think would be interesting as a user?

00:24:22.695 --> 00:24:38.826
It could be like, for example, it would be really cool to have like a virtual command prompt, which is, you know, in the in the hacker movies you see the guy typing the commands out or and, and you do see stuff like that on the test, um, but it's not going to be that detailed.

00:24:38.926 --> 00:24:44.635
But, on the other hand, a lot of times students are really hesitant to do stuff like that on their personal computers because they don't want to break anything.

00:24:44.635 --> 00:24:56.893
So if I could make a feature that like simulates that, I think that would be and I think even though that maybe isn't something that's necessarily on the test, it would also be something that would help with, like word of mouth, because it's just a cool feature, right.

00:24:56.893 --> 00:25:07.545
So people would be like, oh, check this out, like look at this cool thing and I can safely run this command and change my you know IP on this network, but it's all virtual, so it's safe and I can't actually break anything.

00:25:07.545 --> 00:25:12.179
So it's a little bit of what do I need to do to make this better for my customers?

00:25:12.179 --> 00:25:17.823
And also just like as an IT person who does these types of exams and these certs, what would I find interesting?

00:25:17.823 --> 00:25:18.865
What would stand out to me?

00:25:19.835 --> 00:25:22.932
Yeah, that's really interesting that I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't consider.

00:25:22.932 --> 00:25:34.150
When it comes to looking at your businesses, those two interfaces that you just talked about is one you have to interface and have your finger on the pulse of the actual certification exam so that you can mimic it.

00:25:34.150 --> 00:25:38.251
And then two you have to interface with the people who are taking the exams.

00:25:38.251 --> 00:25:44.343
Now, it helps that you've personally done it yourself as a consumer, but what does that interfacing look like?

00:25:44.343 --> 00:25:49.941
How are you making sure that you stay on top of what's going on in the exam world within these certifications?

00:25:49.941 --> 00:25:55.450
And then, how are you gaining or I wonder, if you are after the fact that they take the test?

00:25:55.450 --> 00:26:00.387
Are you soliciting that feedback from them to always continually refine your offerings?

00:26:02.715 --> 00:26:05.740
I've tried, like surveys and stuff via email.

00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:06.541
I get some.

00:26:06.541 --> 00:26:11.710
I don't get anything crazy in terms of feedback, it's always just a few.

00:26:11.710 --> 00:26:17.256
What I do is I look on social media and I regularly look for people talking about crucial exams.

00:26:17.256 --> 00:26:23.727
Reddit is, by far and large, the most common place that I find feedback.

00:26:23.727 --> 00:26:38.210
So, for example, someone complained about the app the other day and I just kind of responded and laughed like I know it has a bug that I need to fix and that led to like a conversation, because people are suddenly like, oh, the guy that makes crucial exams is on Reddit reading these.

00:26:39.073 --> 00:26:43.624
But most often it's good feedback and it's people saying like, wow, is this really?

00:26:43.624 --> 00:26:46.137
Like, can I really get this for this much a month?

00:26:46.137 --> 00:26:48.247
Or what did you use to study?

00:26:48.247 --> 00:26:53.486
And people say, oh, I use these videos and then I use crucial exams once I got close to test prep.

00:26:53.486 --> 00:26:54.710
But not just that.

00:26:54.710 --> 00:26:59.844
I see also the people who don't use me and what are they using and what did they like about it.

00:26:59.844 --> 00:27:14.944
So just keeping up with customers via public channels like social media has probably been the most helpful, because I just haven't seen a great response rate from things like surveys and stuff like that yeah, I really personally, really appreciate those insights.

00:27:15.026 --> 00:27:21.056
It sounds like you and I share a similar jadedness when it comes to surveys, and the reality is, thanks to reddit I'm a huge redditor.

00:27:21.056 --> 00:27:27.721
It's like the only app on my phone that I actually open and the reality is that's where you can gain town hall feedback.

00:27:27.721 --> 00:27:37.263
This, this, is people just talking in the open, not with a bias of oh, let me leave something because it was a really positive experience with this company or a really negative experience.

00:27:37.263 --> 00:27:41.523
It's just real life chit chat and I think that's where the valuable insights come from.

00:27:41.523 --> 00:27:42.972
So I love that insight.

00:27:43.012 --> 00:27:54.020
Lynn, I wanna ask you this next question on two fronts One, as someone who obviously is very technical and developing on a regular basis, but then two, also with your entrepreneurial hat on.

00:27:54.020 --> 00:27:59.182
You brought up AI before, and AI everyone's talking about it in a million different ways.

00:27:59.182 --> 00:28:06.028
You've shared some of the ways that you're incorporating AI into crucial exams, but what's your take on where AI is going?

00:28:06.028 --> 00:28:12.186
And actually you and I are having this conversation on the day that ChatGPT just announced a heck of a lot of new voice features.

00:28:12.186 --> 00:28:13.449
There's a lot of cool stuff coming.

00:28:13.449 --> 00:28:16.885
What's your take on AI, especially for entrepreneurs?

00:28:18.255 --> 00:28:27.555
Yeah, I see so many like ChatGPT wrappers or AI wrappers, whereas it's basically an entire product.

00:28:27.555 --> 00:28:31.425
That's just really like a small feature built on top of AI.

00:28:31.425 --> 00:28:33.922
I think that's like anything.

00:28:33.922 --> 00:28:38.626
I think it's a phase, you know, when crypto got really big, there was crypto businesses everywhere.

00:28:38.626 --> 00:28:42.164
I would not personally get into something like that.

00:28:42.164 --> 00:28:51.661
It's not that they don't necessarily have value, it's just I think that as the AI companies like vertically integrate, they're going to start adding those features directly in and you're not going to be able to compete.

00:28:52.976 --> 00:29:14.039
For me, personally, I see AI as a tool that everyone should have, because it really can just turbocharge stuff One of the things that I have, because when we use the AI to generate content, it can you have to like treat it like a con man almost, because it will tell you these things that sound so correct.

00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:19.257
But because I'm in the IT industry, I'm like, what is this thing going on about?

00:29:19.257 --> 00:29:25.707
Like, this sounds good, the grammar is great, it's throwing out these fake acronyms that it just made up, but it's wrong.

00:29:25.707 --> 00:29:35.407
So one of the things I've done is even like I'll take the output of one AI and I'll double check it with a different AI bot and if they don't agree, then I'll throw the content out.

00:29:35.407 --> 00:29:37.638
So I think it's really cool.

00:29:37.638 --> 00:29:39.242
I think it will continue to improve.

00:29:39.242 --> 00:29:48.897
I think everyone should use it, but I would still be cautious on it because it is just so good at sounding right when it's not at all.

00:29:48.897 --> 00:29:51.005
But it's crazy.

00:29:51.005 --> 00:29:54.224
It's so interesting to see, and you're right that the announcement today was really cool.

00:29:54.875 --> 00:30:02.564
Yeah, it's interesting that you say that almost 900 episodes in, I've never heard anyone reveal that little hack of theirs of dropping one AI output into another.

00:30:02.564 --> 00:30:03.955
That's really clever, Lynn.

00:30:03.955 --> 00:30:05.482
I'm going to totally steal that from you.

00:30:05.884 --> 00:30:15.375
It reminds me of those old school prank videos where people would call a Chinese takeout restaurant with one phone and put another Chinese restaurant phone next to it and have them talk to each other.

00:30:15.375 --> 00:30:35.576
But that's the world we're living in is bouncing AI, because what Google is doing with Gemini or whatever the heck they call it these days and ChatGPT there's so many options out there, so I love hearing how you're combining those Along those lines, I want to talk about expansion plans, because clearly you're thinking about these things not on a micro level, but for sure on a macro level as well.

00:30:35.576 --> 00:30:45.203
I want to get inside Lynn, the entrepreneur, the business owner, the visionary's mind and here how far of a time horizon are you looking at?

00:30:45.203 --> 00:30:48.880
Are you picturing crucial exams a year from now, five years from now?

00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.864
With technology changing so much, I imagine it's very difficult to do that.

00:30:52.864 --> 00:30:57.547
So give us some view into the way that your mind thinks about the future and expansions.

00:30:59.557 --> 00:31:04.188
It's a tough question to answer because I don't know what exactly I'm going to do.

00:31:04.188 --> 00:31:06.462
I do plan on expanding into other areas.

00:31:06.462 --> 00:31:16.468
Right now, the immediate challenge for me is improving the product and making sure that the content that I'm focused on is up to date, and that's mostly.

00:31:16.468 --> 00:31:27.038
It's really almost like a survival thing, because I took a big pay cut, leaving my job and doing this full time, and I'm married, I live in the suburbs of Chicago, which is not cheap, and I have a two and a half year old.

00:31:27.038 --> 00:31:33.622
So for me it's really like how do I ensure that you know, come I don't know, the fall?

00:31:33.622 --> 00:31:40.462
My revenue is not going to drop off into nothing, and once I feel safe there, I think, is when I'll really start expanding.

00:31:41.404 --> 00:31:47.339
As for expanding, I've just daydreamed about it a lot and, like I said, I've debated.

00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:48.300
Do I?

00:31:48.300 --> 00:31:53.067
You know, crucial exams is a fairly vague name, doesn't scream IT or CompTIA or anything like that.

00:31:53.067 --> 00:31:54.528
So do I add stuff there?

00:31:54.528 --> 00:32:01.895
Do I bring on people as contractors to kind of be like you know an expert in some nursing certificate or whatever?

00:32:01.895 --> 00:32:17.867
Or do I try and partner with people and I'm just kind of you know the software developer and almost give them crucial exams as a platform, like a white label to where they run I don't know nursing, certscom or something.

00:32:17.867 --> 00:32:29.259
And they really just come to me when they have like an issue and I'm kind of more like the IT guy and the software developer and I just get like a revenue cut and I just let them do their thing Because I'm not a marketing person right.

00:32:29.299 --> 00:32:36.296
Like I can go on Reddit and talk IT with people and talk shop, but I really wouldn't know necessarily how to market to.

00:32:36.296 --> 00:32:44.464
Like someone who's looking to get into nursing, I can guess and I can probably figure it out, but someone already connected in that industry would do a lot better.

00:32:44.464 --> 00:32:50.321
And if I just hire them as a contractor to vet practice questions, you know they're not going to have that ownership.

00:32:50.321 --> 00:32:55.438
So I have thought about that.

00:32:55.438 --> 00:33:01.279
Like maybe we do a percentage partnership and we do a whole new platform that has its own niche with its own messaging, but under the hood it's that same technology.

00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:04.026
I'm leaning more towards that.

00:33:04.026 --> 00:33:07.337
But when and how that happens is TBD.

00:33:07.337 --> 00:33:15.040
Still, I'm hoping like end of summer I'll be happy with where I'm at with the current content and then I can start thinking about things like that.

00:33:15.040 --> 00:33:15.984
But we'll see.

00:33:16.494 --> 00:33:23.962
Yeah, lynn, I want to go there with you, because now that you're a full-time entrepreneur, you are a marketer, you are all of the hats now.

00:33:24.615 --> 00:33:36.759
And so I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, because I always love, towards the end of these sessions, hear your thoughts on that, because I always love, towards the end of these sessions, talking to you not as a subject matter expert in your area, but also as an entrepreneur, as one of us, for every single person tuning in here today.

00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:48.196
Lynn, with that in mind, what has been eye-opening for you, now that you are a marketer, now that you are, you know, a partnership and activator when it comes to all aspects of your business?

00:33:48.196 --> 00:33:54.609
Give us some of those eye-opening things, as you have crossed the bridge from entrepreneur to full-time entrepreneur.

00:33:56.419 --> 00:34:00.769
Yeah, I've tried things like Google ads, reddit ads.

00:34:00.769 --> 00:34:02.173
I haven't tried TikTok ads yet.

00:34:02.173 --> 00:34:03.277
I keep hearing they're really great.

00:34:03.277 --> 00:34:06.388
I really got no value out of them.

00:34:06.388 --> 00:34:09.219
I got a lot of clicks and a lot of views, but not a lot of people converted.

00:34:09.219 --> 00:34:16.661
I really was surprised at how big of a money pit that was and I'm not saying it would be a money pit for everyone, but it was for me for sure.

00:34:16.661 --> 00:34:25.768
I think I spent like a thousand on Google ads and I converted like three people, which is just not enough for that to be worth it.

00:34:25.768 --> 00:34:27.780
And it could be.

00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:31.112
You know that my messaging is not good enough.

00:34:31.112 --> 00:34:41.474
Maybe I needed to tweak things, but unfortunately, like with that bad of conversion rate, it's just like okay, let's look somewhere else, being active in communities like Reddit.

00:34:41.474 --> 00:34:44.213
I plan on doing some YouTube stuff soon.

00:34:44.213 --> 00:34:46.592
That seems to be the way to go.

00:34:46.592 --> 00:34:54.315
So it seems almost like marketing myself as an individual rather than a business has really worked well.

00:34:55.085 --> 00:35:11.206
Even just talking with customers to where you know, their kind of attitude changes when they realize, like Crucial Exams isn't a big company, it's just me, and suddenly they're much happier with it and they're like oh, that's so cool and it's really great that you're here and like that.

00:35:11.206 --> 00:35:13.931
That's the kind of stuff that has really worked well for me.

00:35:13.931 --> 00:35:18.478
The other thing is writing blogs and posting them in LinkedIn.

00:35:18.478 --> 00:35:38.510
I do see an uptick in referrals coming from LinkedIn when I'm active on LinkedIn, meaning the LinkedIn algorithm basically sees my business's page doing things and starts showing me to more and more people, so it is unfortunately something that you have to keep up with.

00:35:38.510 --> 00:35:41.016
Google SEO is big.

00:35:41.016 --> 00:35:50.516
Maybe some people will find better results with marketing than I have or, excuse me, with running ads than I have, but for me, it's really just being active in communities and staying on it.

00:35:50.516 --> 00:35:59.974
Running one blog post or posting on LinkedIn once a day or something like that has really had the biggest results for me.

00:36:00.594 --> 00:36:02.177
Yeah, and the name of the game.

00:36:02.177 --> 00:36:02.764
You said it right.

00:36:02.764 --> 00:36:04.570
There is obviously consistency.

00:36:04.570 --> 00:36:06.795
It's actually how we came across your work.

00:36:06.795 --> 00:36:11.460
Our production team saw your stuff on LinkedIn and we were just like we got to have Lynn on the show.

00:36:11.460 --> 00:36:14.068
He is an incredible entrepreneur who's building something.

00:36:14.068 --> 00:36:18.157
We love solopreneur businesses and I think it's so incredible what you're doing.

00:36:18.157 --> 00:36:20.331
And today we've seen the proof is in the pudding.

00:36:20.331 --> 00:36:33.273
We've seen exactly why you've been able to grow Crucial Exams, how you have, and gosh, I'm excited to follow your growth journey into the future, which, along those lines, lynn listeners know I asked this question at the end of every session and I have no idea which direction you're going to take it in.

00:36:33.273 --> 00:36:41.934
And that is one takeaway for listeners here today, whether it has to do with the nature of crucial exams or if you just want to talk entrepreneur to entrepreneur.

00:36:41.934 --> 00:36:51.235
What's that one message that you hope everyone who tuned in here today and feels all sorts of inspired by your insights and the way that you think, what's that one takeaway you hope they walk away with?

00:36:52.708 --> 00:36:56.206
so my, my mantra you we've talked about, is automate, automate, automate.

00:36:56.206 --> 00:37:09.356
Anyone who's worked with me in you know, outside of entrepreneurship but just as a career person at various companies, that's always been what I said is like, guys, you need to automate this, like, stop doing this by hand.

00:37:09.356 --> 00:37:11.405
And again, you don't have to do it day one.

00:37:11.405 --> 00:37:17.177
You can start small and build, but automate, automate, automate has always been something that's worked really well for me.

00:37:17.177 --> 00:37:24.784
You know it's I'm a software engineer, so it's easy to say from my perspective.

00:37:24.965 --> 00:37:28.615
But there are a lot of really cool no code or low code tools out there.

00:37:28.615 --> 00:37:39.228
So even if you're not a software engineer, you're not a coder or a scripter or whatever, check some of those out and start.

00:37:39.228 --> 00:37:42.360
You know there's lots of drag and drop things where you can, you know link up A to B to C, and so don't be afraid to go try those things.

00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:48.532
And you know the great thing with software is if it breaks or if it doesn't work, you can just turn it off and go back to doing whatever you were doing before.

00:37:48.532 --> 00:37:55.039
So don't be afraid to take that extra time to automate something to save yourself more time in the future.

00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:55.860
It's an investment.

00:37:55.860 --> 00:37:57.889
So that would be my big takeaway.

00:37:58.371 --> 00:38:02.193
Really solid takeaway and you teased some actionable items in there.

00:38:02.193 --> 00:38:05.108
As far as no code tools, it's funny for someone like me.

00:38:05.108 --> 00:38:15.012
I automate so many aspects of my business, whether it's something as simple as Zapier or even cooler tools that are using web interfaces to start mimicking human user actions.

00:38:15.012 --> 00:38:16.088
There's so many powerful things.

00:38:16.088 --> 00:38:27.360
So, listeners, spoiler alert for you all is that we're going to invite Lynn back for an Action Saturday episode, so stay tuned if he takes us up on that, but we're super excited to have Lynn inside of our community and Lynn along those lines.

00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:38.320
I know that listeners are going to want to go deeper into all the incredible work that you're up to with Crucial Exam, so where should they go from here, as well as your LinkedIn, where you are publishing consistent content there.

00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:39.869
Drop those links on us.

00:38:41.233 --> 00:38:41.454
Sure.

00:38:41.454 --> 00:38:44.635
So it's CrucialExamscom and LinkedIn.

00:38:44.635 --> 00:38:53.331
Our profile is Crucial Exams and if you want to look at me, it's L-I-N-J-M-E-Y-E-R Lynn J Meyer at LinkedIn and Twitter.

00:38:53.811 --> 00:38:55.657
Yes, listeners, you already know the drill.

00:38:55.657 --> 00:38:59.539
We are making it as easy as possible for you to find Lynn's links.

00:38:59.539 --> 00:39:00.851
That's not so easy to say, lynn.

00:39:00.851 --> 00:39:05.974
We are making it as easy as possible for you to find Lynn's links down below in the show notes.

00:39:05.974 --> 00:39:15.179
Wherever it is that you're tuning into today's episode, you'll find a link to CrucialExamscom, as well as the crucial exams LinkedIn page, as well as Lynn's personal LinkedIn profile.

00:39:15.179 --> 00:39:22.893
So if you want to reach out to him and have an amazing entrepreneur in your circle, someone who is now a full-time entrepreneur, I'm so excited for you, lynn.

00:39:22.893 --> 00:39:32.952
I think it's incredible what you're up to and, on behalf of myself and all the listeners worldwide, not only do we all thank you, but we're all rooting for your success now in a heck of a long time into the future.

00:39:32.952 --> 00:39:35.014
So thanks for coming on the show today.

00:39:36.137 --> 00:39:36.898
Thank you for having me.

00:39:36.898 --> 00:39:37.938
It was a lot of fun Really.

00:39:37.938 --> 00:39:38.380
Thank you.

00:39:39.085 --> 00:39:44.650
Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:39:44.650 --> 00:39:48.628
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:39:48.628 --> 00:39:57.862
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at the wantrepreneurshowcom, and I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:39:57.862 --> 00:40:06.650
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:40:06.710 --> 00:40:08.695
These are not sponsored episodes.

00:40:08.695 --> 00:40:10.288
These are not infomercials.

00:40:10.288 --> 00:40:13.780
Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.

00:40:13.780 --> 00:40:24.735
They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.

00:40:24.735 --> 00:40:33.230
So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.

00:40:33.230 --> 00:40:34.572
We also have live chat.

00:40:34.572 --> 00:40:40.606
If you want to interact directly with me, go to the wantrepreneurshowcom initiatea live chat.

00:40:40.606 --> 00:40:50.016
It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and sunday here on the wantrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast.