956: Maximizing returns with PERFORMANCE MARKETING (and a strategy!) w/ Lindsay Stockall

Transcript

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian Lofermento, and all of you listeners know that I am super biased to one topic above all the others, and that is marketing.

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Well, today's guest, when we came across her business, I was delighted to see that not only is she obsessed about marketing, but she puts a very important emphasis on performance marketing.

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We're going to say that term a bunch together here today because Lindsay today's guest, she loves focusing on marketing that actually delivers tangible business results.

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So, no matter where you are in your business journey and you're thinking to yourself my marketing is just not working, then you're in for a treat, because today we're joined by the amazing Lindsay Stockall.

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Lindsay is the founder and creative director of Stockall Company.

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With more than a decade of marketing experience, lindsay knows what it takes to transform businesses through targeted performance marketing strategies.

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Inspired by the vibrancy of the entrepreneurial community in her hometown in Nova Scotia, canada, lindsay launched Stockall Company to deliver an approach that marries partnership, expertise and experience to deliver results.

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Now I'm going to tell you this before we dive into my interview with Lindsay is that I love the fact that her client portfolio is so diverse.

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We're talking different industries, different business models.

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She's got clients in wellness and beauty, food and beverage, travel and tourism, nonprofits, retail, healthcare, professional services, you name it.

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So if you ever have that thought of, well, my business is different, so this marketing isn't going to work for me.

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Lindsay's going to lift the lid off of all of that.

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I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Lindsay Stockall.

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I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Lindsay Stockall.

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All right, lindsay, I'm so excited that you're here with us today.

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First things first.

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Welcome to the show.

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Thank you, that was a killer intro.

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I was sitting here just like thanks, that's nice, nailed it.

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You got it.

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Honestly, it's because you hooked me in.

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Like I said, I love marketing, but I really love your emphasis on performance marketing, which we're going to get into.

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That for sure.

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But before we do take us beyond the bio who's Lindsay?

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How'd you start doing all these cool things?

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Absolutely, absolutely.

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So I have a degree in PR from my university days, which I will not share the year because that will date me and I'm 30 plus, so we do not do that.

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But I started off in PR.

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I worked in retail for a little bit as a fashion buyer and then got back into my roots, into PR and marketing.

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I worked for a property management company while I was running my own business on the side, so that's kind of where I dabbled my fingers into entrepreneurism.

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I ran the Hanger Boutique, which was a pop-up in e-commerce store.

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Right around the time Shopify was like getting going, so I was early stages there and launched the e-com store through organic social media no ads, which is bananas, because that's when you were able to do it.

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I then worked for a regional salon, spa and mini spa company in Canada where I oversaw the marketing and communications for five brands, 21 locations, 11 franchises all across Atlantic Canada, and I got to work with some pretty awesome brands like Dermalogica, redken and Kerastase, just to name a few.

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And then from there, as you know, covid kind of changed the landscape for everybody and during that time I launched my business, started off as just a freelancer, as a bit of a means to an end in between the layoffs of corporate and trying to get through COVID and the entrepreneur bug just like really bit me again quite hard and I just leaned into it and here we are about three and a half years later.

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My business went from a one-off of me and now I've scaled it to a global clientele, as you mentioned some of the industries we now work with, and we have a team of 12.

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Yes, I love that overview, lindsay.

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I think it so exemplifies your commitment and your drive towards growth, and huge kudos to you for all the things that you've built and all the things that you're continuing to build.

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I absolutely love that.

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But what really stands out to me is someone who.

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I started my first business back in 2008 and it was a soccer blog that grew beyond my wildest dreams.

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So when you talk about, the game has changed back then.

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I also.

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I never ran a single dollar in paid ads, but it was possible to grow that way.

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Seo was like the easiest game to win back in 2008.

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Obviously, things have changed, but I do think that gives people like you and I an unfair advantage.

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We've got different perspectives.

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We've got tools in our arsenal that people may not have if they just get started today.

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So, with all of that in mind, paint that landscape for us.

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You've been in the marketing game for quite some time.

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How has it changed?

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What's different?

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Because people love to fear monger and say you're too late, the tide has already passed.

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Talk to us about how it's changed.

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Absolutely.

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The tide has never passed.

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As long as you have a great product, a great service, you have already some organic sales.

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All you need is a very strong marketing partner who can come in and build a strategy and I mean strategies can look different for every business, every vertical, as they should.

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Your strategy that you receive from a marketing agency should never be a cut and paste that looks very generic.

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It should be completely custom to your business and meeting your operational goals.

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I know we're going to dove into performance marketing and metrics there, because that's something that I'm very, very, very passionate about.

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Every marketing dollar that we spend for our clients is very thoughtful.

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We want to make sure that with every day, every dollar we spend whether that's through organic or paid we are reaching those operational goals.

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Now, when you say how the landscape has changed, it is very different.

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As you said, you can no longer just post once on Instagram and you're going to go completely viral.

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Organic content is a marathon.

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It is not a race, and same with search engine optimization, as you said, with SEO on top of leveraging AI and what that looks like.

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So, and we could go down like so many wormholes here, but I guess my biggest piece here is it's strategy and intent right.

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Everything that you're doing should be strategic.

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Posting on Instagram is no longer a strategy.

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That is a tactic that is incorporated into your marketing plan.

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So that's what we really like to focus on.

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When we are, you know, just doing organic social or just content creation, where we're not doing multiple pillars of services for our clients to generate results, we always want to make sure that those are always connected back to the operational goals and we're not just posting to make a post.

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Yeah, lindsay, I'll tell you what I love the fact that you're injecting into our conversation this early the difference between strategy and tactics.

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I'm going to kick that back your way, but first I want to share an anecdote from Chess that when I would tune into business podcasts when I was just starting out, I always I couldn't tell the difference between strategies and tactics.

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Then, when I picked up chess, I saw a quote from a grandmaster who said strategy is knowing what to do when there's nothing to do.

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Tactics is knowing what to do when there's something to do, and that gave me so much clarity on the chessboard.

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If there's a free piece to take, take it.

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That's a very simple tactic, but knowing what to do in that longer term, that is building a chess strategy, which is probably the hardest part about chess, and I think you hit the nail on the head.

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It's probably the same in your world where anyone can post on Instagram, but having that be part of a cohesive strategy is the hard part.

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Talk to us about that.

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And also, I want to interject one more variable into this, because I want to get inside your head here, which is I'm going to throw you all the loaded questions today because we're talking marketing.

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But that is, tell us what's on the menu.

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Because when we think about tactics, everyone loves to talk about posting on Instagram.

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Everyone loves to talk about TikTok's new algorithm and how that works.

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So differently from all the other platforms, what are all the different things in your marketing mix that create those tactics?

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So take us away, however you want to Strategy and tactics, the marketing mix.

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We're here for it.

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You just asked me so many questions.

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I feel like I should have written them all down so that I could answer all of them.

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I guess the first thing that I want to comment on is you're right, anyone can post on social media and that's to where you'll see to with uh, where it comes to service providers and how they're adapting right, there is such a spike in quote, unquote social media managers and content creators because it is so accessible for anyone just to post on social media, onto it, onto Tik TOK, onto Instagram.

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Whatever your platform of choice is right, it's very accessible, it's a click of a button.

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If you are running your own personal Instagram account, I can see how someone might think that, okay, now, I'm a social media manager.

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That is completely untrue and what we really do, and the difference between a strategy and a tactic, which is simply just posting, is connecting it to a KPI right, a key performance indicator.

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So we have, with our clients, key metrics that we like to measure to make sure that we know that our content.

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Every week.

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We're in our clients accounts every day, collecting data every week, summarizing that data and then, at the end of every month, looking at that data and identifying trends and then leveraging those trends that are then going to influence the content calendars going into the next month.

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So that's the biggest thing is identifying those KPIs, those key performance indicators that are going to drive those strategies and drive those tactics.

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So, for organic social, for example, there's, you know, a few top KPIs that we like to look at, which is, you know, probably number one is website traffic.

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Right, we're using Instagram, just for an example, to drive traffic to the website, to drive purchases, to drive opt-ins, whatever that operational goal is that that platform plays in your overarching holistic marketing strategy.

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We want to use that platform to drive that metric.

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So, when it comes to website traffic, what we like to look at is website conversion rate.

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So that's how many people visit your profile versus, of those, how many people then click through to your website.

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That is like very, very, very bottom of funnel when it comes to Instagram.

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Success For us, for the majority of our clients, is website traffic.

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Another one could potentially be lead generation, right, so driving to a landing page through an engagement, very, very, very heavy engagement strategy.

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So this is again why posting on social is just is a tactic, not a strategy.

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We're posting on social to generate engagement, to then leverage that engagement and pull those engaged audience members into your own platform, which we then send an email drip campaign out, or maybe we send retargeting emails out too.

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Do you kind of see how this is all kind of playing a picture in the overarching strategy?

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Just versus just posting to post.

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Does that make sense?

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Yeah for sure To me.

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The word that comes to mind is intentionality, lindsay, where I'm just like.

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Everything you're doing has a purpose.

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A hundred percent.

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And it would be completely outside of my integrity to say we can absolutely guarantee results for your business, because if any agency or any service provider does say we can guarantee results, I can guarantee they cannot, because we have no control of what someone else does Right, unless we are driving bot traffic, if that makes sense.

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Yeah for sure.

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Here's the thing Hearing you talk about all these things.

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I think a lot of listeners will think to themselves well, yeah, I have posted and I have said you know, check my link in bio.

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People do all of these things because we see others doing it, and so we mirror them, whether we realize the the intentionality behind what we're doing or not.

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And so, with that in mind, what really I love about hearing you talk about these things is that not only does it have that layer of intention, but it just seems like you know what leads to what.

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It's almost as if you and I pop the hood of a car open and you know, okay, well, the windshield washer fluid it leads to here, so that one day, when you push this button, it comes out here, and so you have all these different tools in your arsenal and that understanding of how they all fit together.

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Take us there, because a lot of people, when they look at their possibilities from a marketing perspective, they're going to hear you talking about Instagram and say, okay, that's the takeaway I can post on Instagram.

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But you all obviously do meta ads, you do social media content, you also do social media management.

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As far as hey, here's the different platforms and here's how they all play together and here's how the content needs to be different on all of them.

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Talk to us about that marketing mix.

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Absolutely.

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Before I dive in, I do want to address what you mentioned about click the link in bio.

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So there are and this is a nice little freebie hot tip for the audience who's listening that engagement call to action can work.

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However, we have noticed across our accounts it drops further and further and further from a website conversion rating where really those profile visitors is what's driving your website conversions.

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What a really stellar call to action could be is testing a call to action engagement.

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So comment, yes, comment, grow in the comments below and I'll send you you my XYZ.

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Whatever that freebie is right, so you're generating engagement.

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You can then use many chat as an automation there to set up your triggers.

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That's then taking that Instagram engager and or follower and moving it into your own channel, and that's what we really like to focus here at Stockle and Company is driving every single follower, every single engager, into your own channel Because, as we know, Instagram has crashed a handful of times over the last couple of years and the amount of people that I see on my stories after the fact who just lose their marbles and blame Instagram.

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They had a sale, they had a launch, they had a promotion.

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The thing is, you don't own Instagram, you don't own your audience.

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Meta does, so you have to be super strategic in building the audience and then taking that audience and moving it into your own platform.

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So that's just one thing that I just wanted to cover there and again it kind of speaks to the strategy, right, Because you can have 10,000, 20,000, 100,000, a million followers and $ dollars in the bank.

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You can have 300 followers and a million dollars in the bank if all of those 300 followers are customers yeah, I'm gonna interject this.

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I think it needs to be called out because that's such a powerful point that you just gave us listeners.

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Followers do not equal money, they're lindsey.

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You've already talked about kpis, and it's something that I throw quite a bit of shade on is vanity metrics.

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Followers are vanity metrics.

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I Followers are vanity metrics.

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I know so many people especially having been in the game as long as I have that have hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram with no funnels to support that traffic, with no engagement.

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You've used that word a few times.

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You just, I feel like you revealed very quickly here on the air One of the tricks in your arsenal, which is ManyChat.

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Obviously, talk to us about that for listeners who have never actually supported their social efforts with a real strategy behind it.

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What's that stuff look like?

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Because I feel like you're alluding to it so clearly.

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Yeah, it's pretty awesome, especially if you are a small business or you have a limited resource marketing team.

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Manychat is depending on when this is going to air, I'm not 100% sure, so don't quote me on that it is the only approved Instagram partner for automation.

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So there are a lot of other, like third party bots, that you can integrate with Instagram, but it's not an approved partner, which then your account can potentially be flagged as spam and then shut down, and we all know that that is just like probably the worst thing that can happen to you, because getting an account back is extremely challenging.

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Now, there are ways that you can.

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There are steps that you can take to protect your account so that if it does get hacked or spammed, you can potentially have access back Granted sorry, granted back to you, but we can talk about that on another podcast on how to safely protect your Instagram account.

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But I'm sorry, I kind of lost my train of thought there.

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I started going down a rabbit hole.

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Oh, chat automation, yeah, yeah.

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And engagement, tying it back with engagement, yeah, because I think that that's that's the key thing.

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Is that what you're talking about?

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It's easy to just start making all of these rookie errors and we've all done it myself as well well, who has gotten my account banned from time to time?

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so, yeah, keep, let's keep going down that hole so many chat is the only approved dm automation partner.

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So I remember years ago we did a launch with a client and their account got shut down for literally just authentic um engagement, like literally just responding to their comments because we did such a killer job, and meta shut it down, which was absolutely bananas because it was authentic engagement.

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Now, with many chat, you can set up a many chat automation.

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So if someone comments on your posts, they send a certain you know keyword.

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You can then set up like a flow, kind of very similar to like an email flow, right, how you can take one person, move it to the next bucket and the next and the next and trigger different messages.

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That's what you can do with ManyChat.

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So it not only helps you avoid the risk of being marked as spam, but it also alleviates a lot of work on your agency from a budget perspective, resource perspective or your internal team as well, so that you actually don't need to sit there every five minutes OMG, did someone comment grow on my post?

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And then I have to send them a comment and then send them a DM.

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That's what ManyChat can do for you.

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So it is an absolutely fabulous tool to automate and save you more time in the long run, so you can work on your business and not in it.

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Yes, gosh, and it's fun for me having this conversation with you, because I feel like you're so good at structuring the strategic conversation with the tactical conversations, and here we are talking about a really clear tactic that people can take advantage of that they probably never had any idea.

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But, with that said, we're going to shift from tactics to strategy, because I want to zoom way out Because, as I said in the teaser to this episode, performance marketing.

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I've done many episodes and had many conversations within the world of marketing.

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I've never quite seen someone with such a strong emphasis on that term performance marketing, lindsay.

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Why is it so prevalent in everything that you do?

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Well, because we want to make sure that we're spending our clients' marketing dollars that are actually driving their operational goals, right?

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So when you usually think of how like an organization is set up, you have marketing, you have operations, and sometimes not all the time, they're siloed, right?

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So then, when you have your marketing team come to the table and be like, hey, we generated 2000 leads for you at $2 a lead.

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But the sales team come in're like we have no sales, right, it's identifying where that gap is.

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Maybe those leads weren't qualified, maybe there's a gap, maybe they were qualified, but there's a gap in your email funnel.

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Right, that's not working.

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Maybe there needs to be more personalization, maybe.

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If maybe it's an offer issue, right, so it's.

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It's bringing marketing and operations together so that we are driving.

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I'm using leads, for example.

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If you're like a sales, you're selling like an evergreen offer.

00:18:24.615 --> 00:18:32.018
We want to make sure we're not just bringing leads that are within your budget, but they're qualified leads that your sales team can then sell to.

00:18:33.586 --> 00:18:38.688
Yeah, lindsay, this is a hill I'm willing to die on and I want to go here with you, here in today's conversation.

00:18:38.688 --> 00:18:43.377
Yeah, because when what you just said there is, you pointed towards.

00:18:43.377 --> 00:18:52.517
Here we are having a conversation about marketing, you are bringing into the conversation your offer, your sales team, you're bringing into the conversation all these other things.

00:18:52.517 --> 00:19:00.049
It's probably the thing that bothers me the most when I talk to entrepreneurs where they say I'm going to pick on meta ads for a second Cause I know you and I are going to talk about that.

00:19:00.049 --> 00:19:06.185
When people say, oh, meta ads don't work and I asked them what didn't work about it and they say, well, I didn't get any sales.

00:19:06.567 --> 00:19:09.472
And for me, I'm just like is your offer any good?

00:19:09.472 --> 00:19:11.037
Was your copy any good?

00:19:11.037 --> 00:19:13.848
Was your follow-up sequence any good?

00:19:13.848 --> 00:19:16.173
All of these things are going to determine.

00:19:16.173 --> 00:19:18.897
It's not whether a platform works or it doesn't work.

00:19:18.897 --> 00:19:29.310
So give us that view, because I feel like it's obviously the trickiest thing about being successful, not just with marketing but in business, is all of these things concurrently have to be right.

00:19:29.310 --> 00:19:30.113
What?

00:19:30.113 --> 00:19:32.219
What are those puzzle pieces even look like?

00:19:32.219 --> 00:19:36.739
What are those different pieces that you look at before you can even succeed with marketing?

00:19:38.002 --> 00:19:38.505
A hundred percent.

00:19:38.505 --> 00:19:40.230
And I mean we see this all the time.

00:19:40.230 --> 00:19:50.986
I shouldn't say, see, we hear this all the time from you know, potential and new clients and like I've run meta ads and they don't work for me and I'm just like, okay, well, let's, you know, pull the cover off the car, the hood off the car.

00:19:50.986 --> 00:19:55.655
As you can see I'm kind of girly who has no mechanical skills whatsoever.

00:19:55.655 --> 00:20:06.093
You know, take the hood off the car and pull it back and see, was your meta ads manager actually set up properly?

00:20:06.093 --> 00:20:12.230
Do you have your conversion tracking set up properly on your backend to actually be able to showcase your return on ad spend from your ads?

00:20:12.230 --> 00:20:17.846
That's not always 100% possible, but was there at least an effort put into place?

00:20:17.846 --> 00:20:20.231
What does your sales funnel look like?

00:20:20.231 --> 00:20:23.638
Do have proof of organic, proof of concept already?

00:20:23.659 --> 00:20:33.704
So that's one thing we always like to talk with our clients when it comes to ads management is do you already have a solid offer or a solid product that you have successful organic sales already?

00:20:33.704 --> 00:20:42.028
If you do, if you, if, if that is the case, bringing in an ads manager and this is a very different thing between an ads manager and a media buyer.

00:20:42.028 --> 00:20:54.529
A media buyer is just buying space on the platform, where an ads manager is setting up your campaigns, your audiences, your ads and optimizing them every week, if not more frequently, depending on your sales cycle there.

00:20:54.529 --> 00:20:58.278
So there's so many pieces of the puzzle that come into play.

00:20:58.278 --> 00:21:00.929
Do you have a marketing offer or do you have a product offer?

00:21:01.549 --> 00:21:03.613
Right, what are your overarching goals?

00:21:03.613 --> 00:21:12.279
Can meta ads actually be profitable for you based on your average ticket, your conversion rate, your product margin and your cost per acquisition?

00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:24.257
So it's all of these pieces that we like to run through with new clients so that we can make sure that a like do you have a solid product and or service, organically, proof of concept, sold, perfect.

00:21:24.257 --> 00:21:33.192
And then we go through like a little bit of a profitability checklist so that we can say like, hey, this is, on average, what we think we can make you.

00:21:33.192 --> 00:21:37.470
Does that make sense for a return on ad spend, which, in marketing terms, is ROAS?

00:21:37.470 --> 00:21:41.729
So return on ad spend is for every dollar spent, how much are you making?

00:21:47.005 --> 00:22:06.769
Yeah, lindsay, I want to ask you this because, hearing you talk about this and in that strong emphasis, obviously, on someone's return on investment, I think it's so cool to think about the way that you get to experiment, you get to use these different forces to grow a business, which, again, I just want to call out and huge kudos to you that you're not only doing this for others, but you're growing your own business, so you understand these things as a fellow business owner.

00:22:06.769 --> 00:22:53.974
And when I think about that, we had a few weeks ago we had Tiff Quillen on the show, who she works within the architecture and construction industry and she focuses on Google ads and SEO, so a little bit different from you, but what I think is really cool about her approach is that she says, hey, no-transcript, way more powerful and, again, strategic approach 100%.

00:22:53.994 --> 00:22:56.607
And I will just just to clarify too we're full service, right.

00:22:56.607 --> 00:23:01.352
So we do website design and development, we do SEO, we do Google ads, we do email marketing.

00:23:01.352 --> 00:23:03.465
We're absolutely full service.

00:23:03.465 --> 00:23:10.787
So we have lots of experience creating SEO campaigns, audits and then profitable Google ads campaigns.

00:23:10.787 --> 00:23:24.078
We have one client from July I'm just going to preach what we speak here we were actually able to generate a 127 times return on ad spend just strictly through Google ads, and that solely.

00:23:24.078 --> 00:23:32.042
We were able to prove that because we have a jet data engineer who was able to get into their backend and set up all the links, so we could actually prove that concept.

00:23:32.042 --> 00:23:37.246
So I just wanted to clarify that, yes, we can do all of those things, and I'm sorry I for I lost track of the question there.

00:23:37.527 --> 00:23:41.814
Yeah, no, I'd love for you to talk about how organic and paid can play nicely together.

00:23:42.655 --> 00:23:43.317
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

00:23:43.317 --> 00:23:50.289
Yeah, so what you said, your past guests like absolutely stinking, nailed it, like she's obviously an expert, he, she or they is an expert in their field.

00:23:50.289 --> 00:23:53.778
Um, but we always like to ask our clients when they come.

00:23:53.778 --> 00:23:57.770
I'm just like I want social, or I want a website, or I want ads.

00:23:57.770 --> 00:24:00.549
I always like to ask what is your goal, right?

00:24:00.549 --> 00:24:01.865
What is your operational goal?

00:24:01.865 --> 00:24:03.165
Why do you want ads?

00:24:03.165 --> 00:24:05.188
Why do you want social, right?

00:24:05.188 --> 00:24:11.928
And then we can determine, based on their goal, what we feel like is going to be the best strategy and or tactic to meet that.

00:24:11.928 --> 00:24:19.761
And if they don't know, then we book, you know, like a 30 or 60 minute paid consulting hour to kind of peel back the layers of the onion, to figure that out.

00:24:20.042 --> 00:24:29.866
Right Cause, sometimes clients you know if they don't have marketing background, they're a small business, or you're dealing with the VP of operations, or you know someone in that level who isn't necessarily sure.

00:24:29.866 --> 00:24:32.521
They were just maybe told like, yes, we need social, but why?

00:24:32.521 --> 00:24:33.804
What is your goal?

00:24:33.804 --> 00:24:34.484
What are?

00:24:34.484 --> 00:24:40.494
What is the metric that you were trying to achieve by using this budget, this marketing budget, to drive your goals?

00:24:41.300 --> 00:24:51.633
If it is website traffic, that's like a lot of clients do come to us and be like I want to be found organically when they type in a certain keyword, but they don't have the SEO structure in place.

00:24:51.633 --> 00:24:57.852
They also don't have the traffic in place to perform an SEO audit to see if their website is actually like what the website actually needs.

00:24:57.852 --> 00:24:59.034
So bang on.

00:24:59.034 --> 00:25:00.907
That's exactly what we would do as well.

00:25:00.907 --> 00:25:22.787
We always suggest run paid ads first, whether that's through Google, meta, bing, linkedin, pinterest, youtube, tiktok whatever that platform is where their ideal customer is actively engaging, we will run paid traffics to their site enough so we can get gather enough data traffic, see what they're doing on that site.

00:25:22.787 --> 00:25:25.075
That can then influence the seo report.

00:25:25.075 --> 00:25:27.263
That can then influence the content marketing.

00:25:27.263 --> 00:25:28.869
Did that answer your question?

00:25:29.131 --> 00:25:31.077
yeah, no, big time it answers it.

00:25:31.077 --> 00:25:36.942
Because I I always say here on the show that success leaves clues and I feel like you just gave us a big clue about your success.

00:25:36.942 --> 00:25:38.885
Because I love that approach.

00:25:38.885 --> 00:25:46.510
I love the fact that someone may walk up to you and say we want social media, but you hijack that conversation as the specialist that you are and you say what's your goal?

00:25:46.510 --> 00:25:47.803
Let's see if that's even the right thing.

00:25:47.803 --> 00:26:00.413
If I mean, you and I are not doctors, for sure, but if we were, I'm sure that doctors hear that all the time, where someone comes in and they say, oh, my knee is bothering me and it's like well, your hamstring has no strength, so the downstream effects of that, of course you're struggling.

00:26:00.413 --> 00:26:01.976
So I really love that approach.

00:26:02.361 --> 00:26:09.827
But I also know, knowing so many of our listeners and the questions that we get from them, is that a lot of them are intimidated by ads.

00:26:09.827 --> 00:26:16.303
Lindsay, they are so afraid of spending and I don't even like that verb, I would rather call it investing ad money.

00:26:16.303 --> 00:26:18.744
But when?

00:26:18.744 --> 00:26:22.347
What part of their entrepreneurial journey or their business growth journey?

00:26:22.347 --> 00:26:24.210
Who are ads right for?

00:26:24.210 --> 00:26:24.390
Like?

00:26:24.390 --> 00:26:25.651
At what point should we know?

00:26:25.651 --> 00:26:31.276
Hey, I'm ready, I'm going to start going and paying some money and investing that to hopefully get some ROI.

00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.549
The best time to bring in ads like when we like to step into play when is when you already have an organic proof of concept.

00:26:41.549 --> 00:26:48.670
So you already have an offer, you already have a product that you are selling organically and what I mean by organically is without any paid elements, right?

00:26:48.670 --> 00:26:51.506
Because then we know you don't have a marketing problem.

00:26:51.506 --> 00:26:54.458
You don't have sorry, you don't have a product problem.

00:26:54.458 --> 00:26:55.881
You have a marketing problem.

00:26:55.881 --> 00:26:58.726
Your product is fire, like it's selling on its own.

00:26:58.726 --> 00:27:00.647
You know your audience already.

00:27:00.647 --> 00:27:13.692
You need to bring someone in to add fuel to that product, and that is when you want to bring the ads in, versus bringing the ads in, bringing marketing in to solve a product problem.

00:27:13.772 --> 00:27:14.414
That is never going to work.

00:27:14.414 --> 00:27:15.759
Yeah, that's really well said, lindsay.

00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:17.044
I love the way that you articulated it.

00:27:17.044 --> 00:27:18.650
It's so simple but so powerful.

00:27:18.650 --> 00:27:20.877
I've tried to explain that difference so many times.

00:27:20.877 --> 00:27:24.997
I'm going to steal your answer because I think that that's so important Understanding that.

00:27:24.997 --> 00:27:26.762
Is it a product problem or a marketing problem?

00:27:26.762 --> 00:27:35.548
Once you've got a great product and you know that people chomp at the bit to get their hands on it and they whip out their credit card every single time market the heck out of that product.

00:27:35.548 --> 00:27:37.150
I think that that's so important and it's.

00:27:37.150 --> 00:27:38.511
Is there something you want to add there?

00:27:39.553 --> 00:27:45.788
Yeah, I just wanted to say sometimes there is, you know, something to be said about testing, with paid as well.

00:27:45.788 --> 00:27:49.826
Right, Like you've done the, you've done a ton of market research.

00:27:49.826 --> 00:27:52.231
Like you know this product is going to be a hit.

00:27:52.231 --> 00:27:54.483
You've interviewed your ideal customer.

00:27:54.483 --> 00:27:55.465
Like you, you know.

00:27:55.465 --> 00:28:04.881
Like you know, you have done and I can't stress this enough the research, right, the research.

00:28:04.941 --> 00:28:07.467
And that's not, you know, reading a book and saying, yes, like this is this, is this product should work.

00:28:07.467 --> 00:28:28.340
Like you've taken the time, you've interviewed your customers, you found a hole in the market that you know that your product or service is going to solve, then you might consider, if you have the budget, to bring in ads to test, with the mindset of we are testing this to see if the market will bite, based on the incredible market research that we have done.

00:28:28.340 --> 00:28:42.445
So that's the only time when I would say, like, if you have the budget and you have the expectations of we're doing this to test the concept, then yes, but it's always more advantageous when you have an organic offering, of course.

00:28:42.826 --> 00:28:43.849
Like an organic proof of concept.

00:28:43.849 --> 00:28:47.265
I think that's you called it a mindset, and I think it's exactly that.

00:28:47.265 --> 00:28:58.003
It's an important mindset to have, which is you're paying in that case, not for a return on investment, you're genuinely paying to test it's real life, market data and market feedback, and I think that's super valuable.

00:28:58.003 --> 00:29:07.907
Lindsay, because you've crushed that, I almost feel bad asking you this next question, but this is the first question that we get the most from listeners is when should I be spending money on ads?

00:29:07.907 --> 00:29:10.930
How can I start getting that repeatable, scalable growth?

00:29:10.930 --> 00:29:12.105
But then the second question.

00:29:12.105 --> 00:29:21.384
This is the one that I feel bad for you, but you crushed the first one, so hopefully I can steal this next answer from you, which is how much does it cost?

00:29:21.384 --> 00:29:22.026
How much should I spend on ads?

00:29:22.026 --> 00:29:24.231
There's no one way to answer it, lindsey, so I always struggle with it.

00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:30.636
You take it away and there's literally there is no like form.

00:29:30.636 --> 00:29:37.604
I guess I shouldn't say that there is a formula like we have a formula that we go through all with all of our new clients to calculate that right.

00:29:37.604 --> 00:29:40.826
So some clients come to us and say I have X amount of dollars to spend.

00:29:40.826 --> 00:30:02.846
That usually is a good start when you're looking at like PPC, like Google right, because unless you are investing upfront in the strategy and the keyword development to understand what the competitive ad spend is on the keywords that you know are going to drive qualified traffic to your site if that makes sense.

00:30:02.846 --> 00:30:10.390
So Google is driven on the competitiveness of the keywords that you want to be ranking for.

00:30:10.390 --> 00:30:15.050
You want your ad showing and the cost of that is dependent on your competition.

00:30:15.050 --> 00:30:26.723
So, for example, if you're competing for a keyword against a enterprise, global organization with a 20 million dollar budget, that's going to be very difficult for a small business to compete on that right.

00:30:26.723 --> 00:30:37.450
However, where the proof might be stronger is if you continue to run branded ads with some strong visibility meta ads in the background to kind of build up your brand awareness.

00:30:38.576 --> 00:30:43.791
Now, when it comes to general conversions, that kind of goes back to our previous conversation.

00:30:43.791 --> 00:30:45.611
I always like to know, depending on the.

00:30:45.611 --> 00:30:48.103
It all depends on the business model, all depends on your industry.

00:30:48.103 --> 00:30:53.663
We always like to ask what is your average ticket price, right?

00:30:53.663 --> 00:30:57.682
So if a customer is coming to you and making a purchase, what is that average spend, right?

00:30:57.682 --> 00:30:58.584
What is that average spend?

00:30:58.584 --> 00:30:58.703
Right?

00:30:58.703 --> 00:30:59.445
What is that average spend?

00:30:59.445 --> 00:31:13.194
If we're driving e-commerce purchases, I always like to ask what is the conversion rate, because that's going to determine how much traffic I need to make those sales and then what that cost per click needs to be to make that healthy.

00:31:13.194 --> 00:31:14.319
Until we have enough data to figure that out.

00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:19.580
The other piece I like to dive into is margin right, depending on your businesses.

00:31:19.580 --> 00:31:21.205
As we know, every business has different profit margins.

00:31:21.205 --> 00:31:32.008
Some businesses can get away with the two times ROAS because their margin is so stinking high, like they're making like 80, 90 plus percent on their product.

00:31:32.008 --> 00:31:43.172
Where other industries like if you can kill, like a bricks and mortars retail store, where they're buying product and reselling it, your margin, after staffing and costing, is usually around 20 to 30%, right?

00:31:43.172 --> 00:31:49.875
So your ROAS needs to be at least 9.5, like eight 9.5, depending on your overhead costs.

00:31:50.396 --> 00:31:58.798
So we always like to run through that profitability calculator with our clients to determine that ad spend to reach their goals right.

00:31:58.798 --> 00:31:59.400
So they also have to.

00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.352
I always like to ask them, like what are your goals?

00:32:01.352 --> 00:32:02.638
Like, how much do you want to sell per month?

00:32:02.638 --> 00:32:04.869
How many leads do you want to get per month right?

00:32:04.869 --> 00:32:18.317
And then, once we have that, we can do some backwards math, we plug it into our you know ad profitability calculator and say, listen, this is what you have to spend to reach these sales, this is what our cost per click needs to be, this is what our add to cart needs to be and this is what our cost per click needs to be.

00:32:18.317 --> 00:32:23.153
This is what our add to cart needs to be and this is what our cost per acquisition needs to be to make this profitable.

00:32:23.153 --> 00:32:27.186
And then it's pretty clear right away if we can actually do that or not for the client.

00:32:27.907 --> 00:32:34.500
Yeah, lindsay, I don't feel bad asking you that question now because you answered it with such strategy that you really showcase.

00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:47.362
I think the important thing in that answer is just how many considerations and variables there are, and we have to have the ability and you all have a calculator, obviously that can help measure these things against each other, but it's important to have a realistic picture of it all.

00:32:47.362 --> 00:32:49.448
So huge kudos to you in the way you answer that.

00:32:49.448 --> 00:32:55.826
I did know that we'd be short on time here today and I don't want to let you go just yet, so I do want to squeeze in two more questions, and in this one.

00:32:55.826 --> 00:32:59.069
I always love asking these questions entrepreneur to entrepreneur.

00:32:59.109 --> 00:33:03.516
Obviously, you are talking as a subject matter expert, but, like I said, you're also one of us.

00:33:03.516 --> 00:33:10.029
You're growing an incredible global agency that's serving your clients in so many different industries.

00:33:10.029 --> 00:33:10.913
With that in mind, here's the thing, lindsay.

00:33:10.913 --> 00:33:23.426
I want to ask you this because I think it's incredible that you've been able to this is hard to do not only build and scale a team, that you have this growing agency that is far bigger than just you yourself.

00:33:23.426 --> 00:33:27.368
Now, like when you started out, you've built that into a global agency.

00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:31.550
However, you've also still maintained that personal touch.

00:33:31.550 --> 00:33:36.067
I think it's so evident when someone lands on your website which we're gonna drop that link in just a minute.

00:33:36.067 --> 00:33:39.844
Listeners, it is Stockall and Company, all spelled out Very easy.

00:33:39.844 --> 00:33:41.941
We'll talk about that in just a minute at the close of this episode.

00:33:41.941 --> 00:33:46.491
But when someone comes to your website, lindsay, it feels like you are.

00:33:46.491 --> 00:33:50.588
I mean, the word boutique is in there, but it feels like you are an extension of your clients.

00:33:50.588 --> 00:33:54.124
Teams like you are just as excited about their products as they are.

00:33:54.124 --> 00:34:00.515
Talk to us about that approach and how you've maintained it, even as you've grown, because I think it's such an important thing to call out.

00:34:02.181 --> 00:34:21.693
So I think that stems from my previous life in corporate, right, Like I sat on, you know, as a corporate marketing director for almost a decade, working with multiple agencies, multiple service providers, multiple account managers, and what always drove me nuts is when you're paying a premium for a service and you're treated like just another client on the roster.

00:34:21.693 --> 00:34:24.449
That always drove me nuts from an integrity perspective.

00:34:24.449 --> 00:34:34.554
And that's not calling out different business models, it's just how I personally like to, you know, operate myself and operate with my business, which is a high level of integrity, especially starting off.

00:34:34.554 --> 00:34:41.635
You know, our bread and butter clientele were small businesses, Right, so I understood that every dollar was a massive investment on them, right?

00:34:41.635 --> 00:35:17.432
So being an extension of their team just felt so great and being able to celebrate those wins was freaking astronomical, Like I just got a testimonial from a client and we were able to or they saw an increase in their biggest sales partner by 46% since we started launching the ads, and that was just such a stellar celebratory moment together because I knew how much that meant to their business and what that meant for their lifestyle, for their families, and how they could grow their business and, you know, grow their team and create more jobs in our economy, Like it's just that's kind of why you know, that's, that's the personal integrity piece behind it.

00:35:18.275 --> 00:35:24.731
It's just I love celebrating, you know, I love being part of you know all of my clients teams as an extension.

00:35:24.731 --> 00:35:28.489
That is an integral part of Stockwell and company and how we like to operate.

00:35:28.489 --> 00:35:32.646
You're not just a number, right, You're not just part up with.

00:35:32.646 --> 00:35:42.789
You know, one of 25 account managers who have no grounding in marketing, where you then have to circle back to the subject matter experts and it just it feels so impersonal, right.

00:35:42.789 --> 00:35:51.153
And I started my business because relationships are so incredibly important to me and I just wanted to make sure that was carried through and all of our client customer, customer care as well.

00:35:51.896 --> 00:35:53.302
Yeah, I can tell you from the outside.

00:35:53.302 --> 00:35:57.041
Looking in, I see a lot of testimonials on a lot of different business websites.

00:35:57.041 --> 00:35:59.507
Your testimonials not only are incredible.

00:35:59.507 --> 00:36:02.485
I'll call that out and I invite listeners when we drop that link in just a minute.

00:36:02.485 --> 00:36:04.050
Go check out the testimonials.

00:36:04.050 --> 00:36:12.711
I think the structure, the excitement, the enthusiasm that's in them I think that that shows what happens when we do celebrate not only our successes but our clients' successes.

00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:19.621
But what I really want to say about your testimonials is in no way does it feel like you are humble, bragging about how good you guys are.

00:36:19.621 --> 00:36:28.409
It actually seems like you guys are genuinely excited in the results that your clients get, far above just the fact that, hey, look at what we did.

00:36:28.409 --> 00:36:30.483
You love celebrating their growth and their success.

00:36:30.483 --> 00:36:32.067
So huge kudos to you.

00:36:32.067 --> 00:36:35.983
I'm excited for this last question because you can take it in any direction that you want.

00:36:35.983 --> 00:36:39.793
I ask it at the end of every episode and that is what's your one piece of advice?

00:36:39.793 --> 00:36:53.485
Knowing that we're being listened to by thousands of entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs at all different stages in their business journey, in their personal growth journeys, with your entrepreneurial hat on, what's that one thing that you want to impart on them as we close today's episode.

00:36:54.842 --> 00:37:05.393
My biggest piece that I want to say is, if you are looking to hire an external agency, you are looking to bring on a social media contractor, I really encourage you to know your goals right.

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I really want you to know your business inside and out and where the capacity you want to grow right, knowing what that number is, knowing what your budgets are and then leaning into that so that you are grounded and not what you think but what you know.

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So when you're getting your reports from your creators, when you're getting your reports from your marketing team, your agencies, you know exactly what metrics you need to drive.

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And if the efforts are not driving those metrics you know, then you have the data along all of your sales funnels, your sales points, so you can pick out and know where that hole in the bucket is that you need to fix.

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So that's my biggest piece is just knowing your numbers, knowing your business, knowing your goals and making sure that everything you do is grounded in your data.

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That is that would probably be my biggest low hanging fruit as an entrepreneur listening to this.

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If you are looking into, you know doing any type of marketing to drive your business whether that's your product or your service.

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Know your stinking numbers.

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Know your numbers, yes, and I feel like that holds true to so much of our conversation here today, which is have a reason.

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Know what the heck it is that you're trying to do with any strategic decision that you're making, and then make sure it always ties back into that bigger strategy.

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So, Lindsay, you've been a wealth of knowledge.

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I feel like I've personally teased your website so much today.

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Drop those links on us for listeners who do want to go deeper into all the amazing work that you and your team are doing with so many cool clients.

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Where should listeners go from here?

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Thank you.

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So we are very active on Instagram.

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We post a ton of content there, whether that's behind the scenes of our content shoots, sizzle reels from our content shoots, educational tips.

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956: Maximizing returns with PERFORMANCE MARKETING (and a strategy!) w/ Lindsay Stockall

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