966: Navigating organizational (and life) transitions with HR and a focus on PEOPLE w/ Michelle Henriksen

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian Lofermento, and I am so excited about today's guest because this is someone who has really become a thought leader and a master at all the different things that she does.

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She's done it in the world of big corporate America.

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She's done it in the scope of global business and looking at business expansions and mergers and acquisitions, but what she's really incredible at is bringing it down to the human element of business, regardless of size, and she's really deep in that, as she started her own agency to not only help people in that domain, but also interact with her clients and be an extended part of their team to really focus on the people elements.

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So let me tell you all about today's guest.

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Her name is Michelle Henriksen.

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Michelle is a dynamic HR leader with over 25 years of global HR experience, advising clients in all aspects of the employee life cycle.

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I want to talk about that a little bit, because we always talk about the customer life cycle and the buying journey of our potential customers and clients.

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I love that Michelle is bringing us the employee life cycle with the goal of maximizing efficiencies, leveraging technology and promoting equitable and consistent employee policies and practices.

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As a strategic partner to human resource professionals and executive leadership teams, michelle has assisted organizations in raising performance levels by understanding and mitigating we're going to talk about this people issues associated with mergers and acquisitions, right-sizing organizations through restructuring and turnaround events, and advising on human resource practices, statutory requirements and culture when expanding operations internationally.

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So if you're thinking to yourself gosh, my business does have people problems.

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Well, if your business has people, then you probably have people problems.

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Or if you're thinking to yourself gosh, my business does have people problems.

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Well, if your business has people, then you probably have people problems.

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Or if you're thinking, gosh, there's so many points of change and restructuring and growth and expansion in my business.

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Well, today's guest is going to teach us a lot, so I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Michelle Henriksen.

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All right, michelle, I'm so excited that you're here with us today.

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First things first.

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Welcome to the show.

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Thank you, brian, I am excited to be here.

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Heck.

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Yes, I'm very excited to learn from you here today, because you have done it at all different levels of business, and we're excited to tap into all your brilliance and your zone of genius and your experiences today.

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But before we get there, michelle, take us beyond the bio.

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I tooted your horn quite a bit, but who's Michelle?

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How'd you start doing all these cool things?

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Oh my gosh.

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So thank you for the nice intro.

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By the way, I think I'm going to pull you in when I have my client conversations and introductions.

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So I, let's see, I have started on the entrepreneur path a little bit differently.

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I was never the type of person that really wanted to start my own company or be an entrepreneur.

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That always felt to my husband.

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He was entrepreneur in the family, and in 2022, he suddenly passed away, and so I was dealt with picking up the pieces of my life and figuring out what I was going to do, and then I was laid off of my job shortly thereafter, like two months after, and so two of the biggest life stressors hit me at the same time.

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I was reeling, I didn't know what I was going to be doing.

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I knew I had to find work, and so I started interviewing, but I was completely in a fog.

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I don't even remember these conversations that I was having with individuals and nothing was working out.

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Obviously, I don't even know what I was saying to these people that I was having with individuals, and nothing was working out.

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Obviously, I don't even know what I was saying to these people that I was interviewing with and at some point in the process which was probably in like the August September timeframe, I don't know nothing was coming through.

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That was suitable that, you know.

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I felt like that was the right thing for me to do.

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That was suitable that I felt like that was the right thing for me to do.

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And so I was like kind of propelled to my computer and I said I'm just gonna start my own company.

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So I never wanted to be an entrepreneur, it was more like I had to do it out of necessity.

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But I've never looked back.

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I felt like it was my husband pushing me in this direction and he would be just so thrilled and just tickled pink that I was doing this interview today with you as the entrepreneur.

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And so I started my own company.

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At that point in time I I started to do some project work for two former colleagues at their respective new companies and that allowed me to get some focus again into what I wanted to do and where I could see myself going, and it just blossomed from there.

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I got my company logo set up, I got my company name set up and it's all kind of in honor of my husband.

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And you know we my friends had bought us a tree to plant in his honor and that's an apple serviceberry tree.

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So I incorporated that into my logo and then my company name, hg4, is Henriksen Group, and that is to the fourth power, and we're a family of four and we'll forever be like a family of four.

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Yeah, michelle, I so respect and admire and appreciate that story and the really important and significant meaning behind all aspects of your business launch.

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I think that so many entrepreneurial stories not only are they rooted in those sometimes forced transitions in life, but also really those significant and meaningful transitions in life.

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So I think it's so incredible the fact that you get to do your husband, who had that entrepreneurial spirit and that lives on, and what you're doing today, because I would argue that a lot of people in those moments and we can talk about this in life terms obviously you went through some life shifts a few years ago but also in business terms there's going to be a lot of overlap in our conversation today and that in these moments of transition, in these big periods of uncertainty, it's interesting and fascinating to see the ways that incredible minds like you, michelle, leverage your experiences and your skills to say you know what I see opportunities and I'm going to make the most out of this situation.

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Talk to us about that difference between working in corporate and then going out on your own, because a lot of people will look for perceived I'm going to call it perceived safety in those situations, whereas you recognize I've got skills.

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Those are valuable to other companies.

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I'm going to bring them to them.

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What are some of those differences, michelle, between corporate and being on your own?

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Well you know.

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So that's a good question.

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When I was first starting out in my career, I started out in immigration, corporate immigration and global mobility and at the time I remember my husband again influence on my life.

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He said, you know, you need to become an expert in something, because it was very generalist at that point in time and that my first job in that corporate immigration world, in global mobility, really gave me the focus I needed and I started to build up that expertise that I think was so critical and that was really the foundation.

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And then I moved into M&A internally.

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So I had that kind of experiences as well.

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Eventually transitioned to an external facing consultant.

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I felt like, okay, I could relate to what my clients are going through, because I myself went through that.

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I was an internal HR resource kind of figuring out all the ins and outs of doing an M&A process in internally, in an M&A process internally, and saw the effects of, you know, the transition of the employees into our organization.

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And so I knew, going in, as I was kind of starting to advise clients in the HR M&A world, that this is, you know, that I could help them and roll up my sleeves and help guide them because I kind of knew what they were going through and the concerns and issues that they might have.

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So I think that that's like the transition, in a nutshell, from going like corporate to external, like I'm doing still I feel like the same work, but it has like that focus, and I think that that's what helps separate or differentiate myself from maybe some other people who don't have that in-house prior experience that they've been able to kind of build upon.

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But I think that that, you know, having that expertise too and knowing that I could make a difference to my clients also, is what's driven me forward.

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Yeah, and I would imagine it also brings an empathetic approach.

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That's what I'm hearing.

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The way that you talk about this is, I'm thinking, you've experienced that, like you know what it's like from the inside, and I think that is a really powerful competitive edge there.

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So when we talk about that, we've obviously had HR experts here on the show and in our 900 plus episode history.

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But what I think is fascinating about your experience and expertise and skills is that when we talk about employee lifecycle and we talk about people, problems within organizations and you have that focus on mergers and acquisitions you've been there and you've done that and guided organizations through that change.

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That to me, I would imagine, presents a whole new set of problems.

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Now you're bringing people from different cultures, different organizations, different operations and processes all under one umbrella, michelle.

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We are all individuals with very different tendencies, habits, desires.

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How the heck do we even begin to merge these things so that it actually works and becomes one cohesive team moving in the same direction?

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Well, I think that the key to having a successful employee transition starts at the very, very beginning phases of when the deal is coming together.

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So, as an HR leader, you really want to understand first what that deal rationale is going to be, because you might be working with a deal team and they have important to kind of learn up front, like conduct, hr, due diligence, so you understand those kind of people, risks and potential issues that you're going to face when you eventually bring these two organizations together.

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When you eventually bring these two organizations together, so you're looking at all different aspects of you know the employees' benefits, compensation, understanding the culture and how they are working and how they're performing their jobs, who they're working with and policies, programs et cetera.

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So you really have a clear understanding early on of what those potential issues are going to be.

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And then you have that time to make thoughtful and informed decisions on the integration process and when you're going to integrate certain things and then, coupled with that is like when you're learning about these differences in the organizations and you're identifying those potential risks, you're working with the other people on the deal team to ensure that you're kind of have that alignment and that everything is kind of moving in the right direction, because you're right.

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I mean, the one of the number one cited reasons that deals fail is because of people in culture.

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So you just want to be mindful of that going in.

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And a lot of times organizations kind of fast track, they don't do the HR due diligence and then they get to the point where they're integrating the two companies and then it becomes pretty messy because they don't have that prior knowledge of those you know they haven't identified and been able to successfully kind of prepare and mitigate those risks going forward.

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Yeah, and hearing you use that term of integration process.

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Just like most things in life and business, it truly is a process, and so hearing you talk about that I can only imagine, because you've done it at a large scale, obviously working with multinational corporations, and obviously you're advising all of your clients on topics like this one.

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But when I think about an integration process, michelle, how long does that process look?

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Because so many of our conversations in business we always we're the instant gratification generation.

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We want things and we want things now, and us entrepreneurs, we especially want things right now.

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So what does that process actually look like?

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As far as timing, as far as those baby steps that we take along the way, how do we lay that out?

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that out.

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Well, that's, it's hard to say.

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You can't really pinpoint a specific time for any type of integration work because you have the deal lifecycle which you, it goes through like various stages, like the letter of intent and due diligence, and then you plan for day one and then you have your integration and, depending on you know, going back to that deal rationale again, you want to understand when Some of the integration functions, particularly on the operations level, the HR level, technology level, are going to make sense to come together.

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And so it's not all at once, it's usually over a long period of time.

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I mean, sometimes integrations take three to six, to 12 to 18 months, you know, depending on the company size.

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Yeah, and that's why I think setting these expectations is so it's so necessary because of the fact that it is a very intentional and strategic process.

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And so here we are, talking about people.

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Michelle, I said it in the teaser to this episode that I don't think we've ever had a guest on who's talked about the employee life cycle.

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I love the fact that that's such a strong focus of the work that you do, because a lot of people we become obsessed with talking about how do we hire the right people?

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Then people like to talk about here's how we onboard our new employees.

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But what is the employee life cycle?

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Walk us through all those different stages that that encompasses.

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Yeah, so I mean I always think of the employee life cycle.

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I think of the hire to retire process, which is bringing those individuals into the organization at the time of hire, and then all of those processes and programs and policies in place that kind of take those employees through that life cycle.

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So you have the hiring, you have the onboarding, as you referred to, you have just the employee maintenance period where you're managing performance reviews and annual salary increases People are moving up in their career path path and then you have the individuals that are ready to leave the organization or terminate, or voluntary or involuntary, and then they leave or they stay until they retire.

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So that retire piece is probably around termination as well as retirement.

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Yeah, and obviously all different ways that we serve our team, different ways that we nurture our team at each of those levels.

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I want to ask you about that very topic right there, because the nature of someone who is just onboarding and I'm thinking about you know myself when I graduated from college and entered corporate America for the first time.

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Admittedly it didn't last long only 10 months before I decided you know what I'm meant to be an entrepreneur.

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But with that in mind, the way that my boss and the hiring managers and everybody up from there managed me that early in my career is radically different than the way they manage someone who's approaching retirement age.

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Talk to us about understanding those differences in the workplace, because I know that promoting equitable and consistent employee policies and practices is a core part of your service area.

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But at the end of the day, we also have all these different individuals with different goals, different career phases.

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How do we create that environment where people get served what they need within a culture of what we are building?

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That might be beyond my scope of knowledge, but from my perspective I think it's important to have a built-out HR infrastructure.

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So what I mean by that is that you have your consistent policies and programs, you know your systems and how they could be leveraged to kind of provide the services that you need for the employee.

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So you have your applicant tracking system, your performance management system, but aside from that you have you're kind of in sync with with having those systems carry that employee through that life cycle.

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So what I mean by that is that you have so from you know somebody that's kind of new in their career.

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They're learning all of the functions of their job.

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So you're in, you know they might get some training.

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Then you are moving along with that same individual.

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They, you know, they need to know like what are their options, what is the career path for them.

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That's part of your HR infrastructure that you build out by position, so people kind of understand how they can progress in your organization.

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And you're going to have roles that are, you know, on that career ladder, that are, you know, managing people, or you're going to have it diverge and have people who are subject matter experts and that's OK.

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But people need to know, like how they fit into the organization in all of the policies and programs that are there to support them as they progress through that.

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Does that make sense?

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Yeah, for sure.

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I think that what it really displays, michelle, that I think is so important, is how intentional you are about setting up the infrastructure.

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Maybe I'm biased this year because my word for 2024 is building, and so I look at the intention behind those buildings is obviously that blueprint of laying the foundation, like you talk about here.

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Way too many business owners obviously, whether we talk at the solopreneur level or the big corporate level, is that they start out with these big, ambitious growth dreams and goals, but we don't set that foundation because a lot of times we are ready, fire aim afterwards, and I think it's so important hearing the way that you view these things.

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I want to ask you about collaboration, because in most of your answers here today I think that that is so evident that that's such a core part of your approach in servicing your clients is rolling up the sleeves, getting into it, because you've obviously worked internally at these companies.

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Now you advise your clients on a consultative role.

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Talk to us about the collaborative process.

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I want to hear more about who are all the players when it comes to the collaborative process.

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Is it you, obviously your clients?

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Is it the employees?

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What types of questions are you asking?

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Share some insights there.

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So for the most part right now I am kind of being leveraged at my clients within, like their HR team, so I'm kind of an extension of their HR departments.

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But, for instance, like some of the clients that I'm currently working at, they have a lot of great, unbelievable HR experience, but they maybe don't have as much M&A experience.

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So they leverage me to kind of help them think through certain things related to, you know, day one readiness planning or integration, and also part of what I'm doing, particularly for for one client, has been to help them.

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You know, they had somewhat of an infrastructure in place, but when they're bringing in another organization, you need to kind of look at those jobs and the roles of the companies that are coming into your company and doing a lot of job harmonization.

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And it was relatively an easy process Not easy, but it wasn't too painful because they had that infrastructure built.

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They knew the competencies associated with the roles in their organization.

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So when you have another company coming in're like, okay, well, these are our expectations for this type of a role and then we see how you fit in.

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So, from a collaboration perspective, I'm working with, you know, my clients, hr teams for the most part, and they're just leveraging me to get some of that.

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You know, more M&A focused experience.

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Yeah, speaking of experience, I want to ask you this this might be a tougher question to answer, because you obviously are leveraging so much of your own experience that it probably feels very embedded in the way that you operate.

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But hearing you talk about, for example, role harmonization I love that term you are looking to harmonize two completely separate entities.

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Where is it that you can start to see those risks so that you can begin to mitigate them even before they arise?

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Where does that come from?

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Obviously, a lot of it comes from experience.

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But what are those ingredients that you're looking at at the company that is taking on that other company?

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What is it that you're looking inside that other company?

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I'd love to hear where you're identifying these risks before they happen.

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Well, I mean, you think of it.

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It's you have your ideologies related to the roles in your organization and you have your kind of thoughts around what your expectations are of people performing, say, at a manager level role, the kind of the salary that you're going to give to certain people in that role and the just like you know the expectations around that role and how they perform that role.

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When you bring in another organization and they have that same manager role and like, well, we pay our managers this amount of money, we're just paying them this amount of money over here.

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So a lot of times there is that compensation discrepancy.

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But then you look a little bit deeper and you say, well, their manager actually has this, this and this expectation.

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We don't expect those of our manager.

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So that kind of helps you understand where that discrepancy might be coming in.

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So you just have to really dig in a little bit deeper to understand where those discrepancies are.

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And when you're trying to harmonize, to kind of make a mindful and thoughtful comparison between roles, and you're looking, you know, at job descriptions, competencies, salaries, locations.

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All of that is a factor and some of the risks are because those are, you know, a lot of times misaligned with.

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You know the philosophies of the risks are because those are, you know, a lot of times misaligned with.

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You know the philosophies of the two different companies trying to come together.

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Yeah, it actually sounds fun that you're just going through everything with a fine tooth comb looking for these to identify them beforehand, so I really love that.

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It actually makes me want to ask you this question about vantage point, because you obviously have the benefit of having that external vantage point.

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How does that compare from your internal roles?

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You've worked at some really notable companies that we've all heard of and you have a very impressive resume looking backwards, but now you're operating not internally, but you are you said the words extension of their team.

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How has that shifted your vantage point?

00:24:33.638 --> 00:24:37.795
I would imagine it's even more of an advantage in the way that you operate.

00:24:37.795 --> 00:24:39.398
Talk to us about some of those differences.

00:24:40.823 --> 00:24:56.180
So being an external facing consultant, like the experiences that you get just from your clients and of themselves are so different and so vast as compared to being an in-house person.

00:24:56.180 --> 00:25:05.544
So you might have gained like I gained a lot of expertise within my companies and new processes, policies, everything from the ground up.

00:25:05.544 --> 00:25:21.073
But when I was starting to work externally, you just come across clients in all different kinds of industries, you know different team makeup, so you're you just have so much more.

00:25:21.073 --> 00:25:30.933
You know a breadth of knowledge that you're kind of learning about because you're bringing in that industry expertise from your clients as well.

00:25:30.933 --> 00:25:40.845
So I think that that kind of is a shift and you know it's like a more wide open view.

00:25:40.845 --> 00:25:51.693
I mean and you know people have asked me this too Like, oh well, you have M&A experience, but you don't do you have any manufacturing experience?

00:25:51.693 --> 00:26:07.064
It's like no, but you usually apply the same M&A principles to any deal that you're performing and then you just have to get up to speak quickly on that particular industry or different type of company.

00:26:07.830 --> 00:26:15.124
Yeah, I think that that is such a cool part of having that consultative role for so many different clients is you leverage experiences.

00:26:15.124 --> 00:26:25.615
If someone works internally, they have probably been in that job for years, so I think it's a really powerful aspect to have an external expert like yourself to come in and help there.

00:26:25.615 --> 00:26:33.998
But it does also I always love asking, towards the end of these conversations, questions, also not just as subject matter expert that you are, but also as one of us.

00:26:33.998 --> 00:26:45.201
You are a fellow entrepreneur, michelle, and so while you're helping your clients navigate these waters, you are also navigating the waters of growing your own successful business, and you're a few years into this.

00:26:45.201 --> 00:26:50.820
What are some of those things that have surprised you along the way about being your own business owner as well?

00:26:51.950 --> 00:27:23.442
Well, I think one of the revelations that I've had has definitely been not to burn your bridges, like everybody always tells you this, but I've seen it really come into play these past two years because I've gotten work from referrals from different clients, different people that I've worked for, and if I didn't leave them with a good impression then I wouldn't have gotten this work been.

00:27:23.442 --> 00:27:38.080
Pivotal thing that I've learned is to just nourish your relationships as much as you can, because you never know when you're going to have to lean in on them, and that goes from a professional as well as personal perspective.

00:27:38.821 --> 00:27:40.846
Yeah for sure, Really well said.

00:27:40.846 --> 00:27:53.785
We hear it from so many guests that a lot of their early business comes from those past relationships, even when they post on LinkedIn and say, hey, I just want to announce here's what I'm doing People who they have built those strong relationships with.

00:27:53.785 --> 00:27:55.492
It's a springboard for a lot of our entrepreneurial success.

00:27:55.492 --> 00:27:57.038
So I really appreciate those insights.

00:27:57.038 --> 00:27:59.625
Michelle, I want to ask you about the not so pleasant stuff.

00:27:59.625 --> 00:28:10.992
We love bringing all that real stuff here onto the podcast and that is the billing, the invoicing, the pricing, the selling, the follow through, all the logistical things that we have to do as business owners.

00:28:10.992 --> 00:28:12.299
How have you find that?

00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:22.066
Because, obviously, coming from an HR perspective, I'm sure that you're really great with operations and with processes, but give us that real insights into the life of an entrepreneur.

00:28:22.887 --> 00:28:41.892
Yeah, well, I think first, being an external facing consultant, I was responsible for kind of scoping out the work, putting together the budget and figuring out the appropriate amount to charge clients for different types of work.

00:28:41.892 --> 00:28:43.457
So I had that background.

00:28:43.457 --> 00:28:49.046
So that was sort of an easy adjustment to make as I did it for myself.

00:28:49.046 --> 00:29:26.430
But I think one of the challenges was really to kind of legitimize myself and figure out ways of promoting myself, and so I collaborated with two different institutes One is HR M&A Roundtable and one is Institute for Mergers, acquisitions and Alliances and I developed training for them in the realm of HR due diligence, and I think that that's also helped me put kind of a focus on my expertise by doing that.

00:29:27.234 --> 00:29:28.618
Yeah, that's really cool.

00:29:28.618 --> 00:29:39.053
Can you share some more insights there, because that's something that was really prevalent to me when I was researching, obviously, the way that you operate I see it on your LinkedIn and, michelle, it seems like you are always speaking at cool panels.

00:29:39.073 --> 00:29:45.184
You're speaking at cool events, so talk to us about how that came about, because I feel like a lot of people shy away from it.

00:29:45.184 --> 00:29:51.816
You and I joked before we hit record here today about the excitement of recording here on the air in front of thousands of people around the world.

00:29:51.816 --> 00:29:58.500
But talk to us about how you decided to get involved in organizations like that to establish yourself as a thought leader.

00:29:59.343 --> 00:30:08.128
I mean, actually it was just again, I was out of necessity because I feel like I don't post enough on LinkedIn.

00:30:08.128 --> 00:30:10.895
I'm not a big, huge social media person.

00:30:10.895 --> 00:30:13.922
I have a hard time really promoting myself.

00:30:13.922 --> 00:30:17.169
So I thought, well, what am I going to do?

00:30:17.169 --> 00:30:19.137
I have this business.

00:30:19.137 --> 00:30:24.946
I have to, kind of, you know, find clients some way.

00:30:24.946 --> 00:30:31.135
And so I thought, find clients some way.

00:30:31.135 --> 00:30:32.298
And so I thought, well, who's needing my services?

00:30:32.338 --> 00:30:48.362
Well, it's people that are in the M&A world, like there's organizations that are, you know, very geared toward helping people learn and perform M&A and then just ways of, you know, kind of exchanging best practices and information with one another.

00:30:48.362 --> 00:31:12.880
So I had been a member of the HRM&A Roundtable for years and I was talking to the founder of this group and, you know, we thought it would be really good to have a due diligence course that you know, starts from the basics and really gets people, you know, understanding and able to perform a charge of diligence.

00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:17.157
And then the same way with the Institute of Immortals, acquisitions and Alliances.

00:31:17.157 --> 00:31:34.722
I reached out to them and I just said, you know, I want to be one of your trainers and as a result, I actually went to their office in Austria last year and recorded some training sessions in their office, so that was a really cool experience as well.

00:31:34.722 --> 00:31:48.648
But I think for me it's really been finding ways of getting on these panels and volunteering to be on the panels and to figure out ways of showcasing the expertise.

00:31:49.434 --> 00:32:04.839
Yeah, I'm so grateful that you shared that real life, those insights and strategies with us, because I feel like in the world of entrepreneurship, we always throw around these fluffy terms like give people value and you'll start to find clients, but what you've just really shared with us here is is you just asked yourself who can I help?

00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:07.483
Where are those people and how can I show my expertise?

00:32:07.483 --> 00:32:10.407
And that's the real way that you continue to provide value.

00:32:10.407 --> 00:32:24.618
And, as someone who, just like you, I also I'm not keen on social media, I'm not that big of a self promoter, and so I so feel the fact that you've intentionally thought about that of how can I not promote myself, but how can I just give value and show people my expertise.

00:32:24.618 --> 00:32:26.040
So huge kudos to you.

00:32:26.142 --> 00:32:32.691
I love the way that you operate and it's no surprise to me that you are off to the races two years into your entrepreneurial journey.

00:32:32.691 --> 00:32:39.840
So, michelle, at the end of these episodes, I always love to ask this broad question, because you get to choose which direction you take it in.

00:32:39.840 --> 00:32:51.971
And that is what's your one piece of advice, that one takeaway knowing that listeners are tuning in at all different stages of their business journeys, knowing that listeners are tuning in at all different stages of their business journeys.

00:32:51.991 --> 00:32:53.894
What's that one takeaway that you want to leave them with?

00:32:53.894 --> 00:33:02.200
I would say that the biggest takeaway for me is to become an expert at something and to believe in yourself.

00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:11.590
I think those two go hand in hand and if you you know kind of believe in yourself and believe in your expertise, you'll go very far.

00:33:11.590 --> 00:33:15.625
But you have to believe in yourself, yes.

00:33:16.016 --> 00:33:24.142
Very well said and advice that is relevant to 100% of us, whether we're entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs, so I so appreciate those insights.

00:33:24.142 --> 00:33:26.275
Michelle, I know that listeners are going to be keen.

00:33:26.275 --> 00:33:41.797
Now that I've tooted your LinkedIn a little bit, maybe it'll be a little bit of an impetus for you to be a little more active on there, but I know that listeners will find a lot of good stuff that you're putting there different places that you've spoken and topics that you've spoken on, as well as all the great things that you're doing with your company.

00:33:41.797 --> 00:33:43.980
So, michelle, drop those links on us.

00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:48.205
Where should listeners go from here to learn more about you and all the great work that you're up to?

00:33:48.926 --> 00:33:52.895
I mean, it's really linkedin for now I'm in the process of building out a website.

00:33:52.895 --> 00:34:01.156
It's not there yet, um, so really linkedin is the the best place to find out more about me and who I am?

00:34:02.098 --> 00:34:04.064
yes, listeners, you already know the drill.

00:34:04.064 --> 00:34:09.146
We are making it as easy as possible for you to find michelle's links, including her personal LinkedIn.

00:34:09.146 --> 00:34:10.911
So check down below in the show notes.

00:34:10.911 --> 00:34:20.365
We'll be linking directly to her LinkedIn If you want to continue the conversation with her, whether even if you still work I'm thinking about all you entrepreneurs out there that are listening to this podcast.

00:34:20.365 --> 00:34:26.867
We're so grateful and you heard Michelle talk and you said you know what I feel like my organization could benefit from from Michelle's expertise.

00:34:26.867 --> 00:34:28.289
Reach out to her on LinkedIn.

00:34:28.289 --> 00:34:42.505
This is someone who has global expertise at all different sizes of businesses, so definitely check the show notes down below or, for all of you entrepreneurs who are growing, which we love to see that growth and you want to have Michelle in your corner, reach out to her.

00:34:42.505 --> 00:34:44.958
Tap into her zone of genius and her brilliance.

00:34:44.958 --> 00:34:50.965
Otherwise, michelle, on behalf of myself and all the listeners worldwide, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

00:34:51.715 --> 00:34:52.780
Thank you so much, Brian.

00:34:52.780 --> 00:34:53.603
It was a lot of fun.

00:34:54.396 --> 00:34:59.978
Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:34:59.978 --> 00:35:03.927
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:35:03.927 --> 00:35:13.157
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom, and I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:35:13.157 --> 00:35:21.965
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:35:22.005 --> 00:35:23.998
These are not sponsored episodes.

00:35:23.998 --> 00:35:25.601
These are not infomercials.

00:35:25.601 --> 00:35:29.096
Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.

00:35:29.096 --> 00:35:40.056
They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.

00:35:40.056 --> 00:35:48.534
So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.

00:35:48.534 --> 00:35:49.878
We also have live chat.

00:35:49.878 --> 00:35:53.706
If you want to interact directly with me, go to thewantrepreneurshowcom.

00:35:53.706 --> 00:35:55.918
Initiate a live chat.

00:35:55.918 --> 00:36:05.322
It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.