1010: How CHANGE is your GOLDEN opportunity to growth w/ Renée Holder

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and I am so pumped for today's episode to be wishing you a very happy new year.

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2025 is here, and I will personally reveal this to you on the air that our first episode of the year is always handpicked by me personally, because it's something that I want to set the tone for the entire year for us, and that's why today's guest, she, is bringing something special to the table.

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This is someone who not only has incredible energy about the work that she does and how she shows up in the world, but, let's face it, a new year we're going to be talking about change, and today's guest is all about change in so many good ways.

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Let me tell you all about her.

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Her name is Renee Holder.

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She's the founder, president and principal consultant of Janus Management Group.

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She's a certified change management and training professional, passionate about the successful transition of individuals impacted by small to large-scale transformations.

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Renee has a rich experience supporting multi-year global HR and IT exercise resource planning programs in Canada, latin America, asia, africa and across the United States.

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Through it all, she plans the journey to adoption, from awareness to realization, with a laser focus on each individual's experience during the transition.

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She's a writer, a speaker, a facilitator and a change management fanatic who loves to see the emotional transition of people as they move from uncertainty to normalcy.

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Now, renee hasn't put it in her bio but as someone who's gone deep into her work, she doesn't even know that I'm going to tease right off the bat.

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Her book, I think, is so brilliant.

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It's called Beyond Devil's Forest A Tale of Choice and Consequence, and I just want to tease you with a little bit of it from Amazon.

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It says journey to a time gone by and relive the experience of the villagers you will meet through this clever tale from the fictional realm of Eckersley.

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See a society in crisis where change is imminent and decisions have life or death consequences.

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Beyond Devil's Forest is a metaphor for all of us as we consider changing our lives and how we fight or take flight, and I think that's such a perfect teaser for today's episode.

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I'm personally so excited about this one, so I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Renee Holder.

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All right, renee, I'm so excited that you're with us today.

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First things first, welcome to the show.

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Thank you for having me.

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I'm so excited, heck.

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Yes, it feels funny saying it to you today because obviously you and I are recording this in the past.

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But happy new year to you, and I will also say on the air happy birthday on the day of our recording.

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Well, thank you very much.

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Yes, renee, you've got so much to live up to today because I've personally been excited about this episode.

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But you've got to take us beyond the bio.

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You do so much cool work.

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Who's Renee?

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How did you start doing all these things?

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Yeah, it's just such a weird kind of like full circle moment because, you know, I think back at when I was a kid and I was like literally teaching a room full of stuffed animals, including my Raggedy Ann and Raggedy Andy I'm aging myself, for those who know and I went from, you know, doing teaching because it's kind of in the lifeblood of my family.

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My father's side of the family had principals and teachers and then, kind of like in high school, I really got into accounting and I thought I'd become an accountant.

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And when I got into university I kind of you know, I'm very introverted, believe it or not and I really thought that, you know, accounting was perfect for that.

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But then I got a love for the arts theater and music and eventually really got so wrapped up in stage management.

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That is, you know, really I think that really took me to another level, because now the director is literally giving the show to me and I am then making sure that it flows and it runs perfectly.

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So, you know, coming out of university, I thought, okay, stage management is my thing.

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And of course one of my friends, who was about two years ahead of me, kind of said there's about seven stage managers in New York City, so it's hard to get a job.

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So I was like, okay, back to accounting to get a job.

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So I was like, okay, back to accounting and uh, I ended up, um, getting my first job in the corporate world in the accounting space.

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And eventually that led to it hr training and led straight into, uh, change management.

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Um, almost by duress, because my my director back in the day when I was at nike I was at Nike for 17 years and she really said, renee, you really have a knack for change management.

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But I was so in the training space that I thought, no, no, no, I'm going to be training.

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Because, again, going back to me teaching my little stuffed animals, I thought that was my destiny.

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To think that over the course of time, over the different experiences and different projects, I started trying to climb that corporate ladder, recognizing that there were some rungs that were missing, and I decided you know what?

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We need a change and how about we chart our own destiny?

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And that's when I started Janus and now we're 10 years strong in the industry part of Janice, and now we're 10 years strong in the industry.

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Yes, gosh, I love that overview, Renee, 10 years needs to be celebrated.

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I think as entrepreneurs, we need to recognize longevity, because that's something that it's hard to do and I know that with it inevitably comes a lot of change, which obviously we're going to weave that into our conversation.

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But also there's just been so many twists and turns that you couldn't envision and, I think, a lot of people.

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When we set out to build our businesses, we think we know what it's going to be, but 10 years in, it's taken so many different twists and turns.

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So I'm excited to get into that.

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But we've got to start with change.

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Obviously, you talk about change management A lot of people.

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I want you to define that term for a lot of listeners.

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But even before we talk specifically about change management, Renee, you have such a positive attitude towards change.

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Where does that come from?

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Not everyone loves change like you do.

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You know what?

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I think it's actually again growing up because my dad, because of his work, we moved, not a lot, a lot, but more than other kids would have moved, and we really learned to adapt.

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Each time.

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We always and I think I credit my parents for doing change management when they didn't know it was change management, but it is.

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You know, kids are get either used to their, their neighborhood, they're used to their school, used to their friends, and then you move them to a whole other city and now we have to start over again.

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But they always seem to mesmerize us with oh, we're getting a new home and we're getting to decorate and getting our own bedrooms, or who's going to get the bedrooms, you know?

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So it was always that.

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So they kind of teased us into preparing us for change.

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And I think that kind of resonated throughout my life where, you know, I, as I got older and I got into the business of change management, I was able to address I'm like, oh, that's what that was, that's what this was, you know, and and label it.

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So now that I, when I teach it or when I actually put programs, I'm literally using those same I when I teach it or when I actually pull out programs, I'm literally using those same concepts from when I was a kid so funny.

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Yeah, I do love that, especially because that's such a tangible example that we've all either moved as children or we've seen the new kids in school every single school year, and it's something that I mean you just revealed to us that actually your parents were really successful in making change fun and positive.

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And so, with that in mind, when we talk about change management within the business world, talk to us about some of those techniques and strategies, because obviously, as kids, you can kind of say oh no, no, don't look over there.

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Look at all these shiny new, exciting things.

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How much of that actually translates to the workplace.

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A ton because, think about it.

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I'll give you an example.

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Probably everybody should recognize when your bank or financial institution is going to change the UI, the user interface, they send you an email, maybe like a month or two in advance, going hey, guess what?

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In a month or so we're going to change the website and it's going to do all these things here why we're changing it.

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Here are the really cool things you're going to get.

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And then eventually, over time, you get a week in advance, you get a little notification the night before and then the day of, and that really that's change management.

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Right, it's the awareness way up and above.

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It's telling you why.

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It's telling you all of the, the benefits of what's going to be happening.

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Then it prepares you.

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So, for example, if there's anything that's changing, they'll either give you a little short video on how to do it and then, of course, they go live with the new platform.

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You log in the next, the next day, and you're like, oh wow, oh yeah, that's right, they told me they were going to change it.

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And look, oh yeah, and they have a video.

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You, you could play it.

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Now.

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I understand how to get to my deposits.

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I understand how to.

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You know, reconcile my accounts.

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So all these different things, that is change management.

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And the same thing happens when I work with any organization, whether it's technology change, process change, you know organizational change, it really comes down to what is the today, what is the tomorrow and how do I get people from there to here.

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And it really comes down to understanding who all the stakeholders are.

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And you know people, stakeholders.

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Okay, leadership from the very top.

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It's middle management, it's my I call them change champions or my super users.

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It's also, then, the end user population and, depending on the project, it'll be some of those people or all those people.

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And the key thing is how do you get that leadership, that change champion, that whole group of folks, to really sing to the same hymn book and then drive everybody in the organization along with you to get you to the promised land or to the future state.

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So that change management is simple but complex, I like to say, but it's something that I think we all have to go through in some point of our life.

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Yeah, really well said and, Rene, I knew you'd do this.

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Today.

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You've come armed with all the real life examples.

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I love that example of the website change, because it's something we all experience as consumers and we know inevitably, as entrepreneurs, as business owners, that our business is going to change, just like you and I talked about a few minutes ago.

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So give us some of those examples.

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You rattled them off so effortlessly, renee, that I want to go deeper into all of them.

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What are some of those types of changes that you see, as someone who works with so many different cool businesses across all industries?

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What are some of those types of changes that we need to address and navigate through?

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Yeah, you know one of the biggest ones.

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I'm a technology change gal, so working with a lot of organizations on changing their systems from you know one system to the next.

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A lot of them are like to SAP.

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I've been working with SAP for a long time, so for those who know SAP, it's an ERP Enterprise Resource Planning System which basically means all of your functionality running your business is all linked together all the way from your sales, all the way to your shipments, to your receiving, to your accounting and to the very end when you actually have your financials.

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End, when you actually have your financials and it's really.

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Those are probably the most complex because, as you can see, it impacts so many departments across the organization.

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But the key thing is, at the end of the day, you need to have a through line of a message why it's important.

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You you know I have done change initiatives where it's just literally changing a process.

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You know how do you just go from you know, having garbage cans in your offices to no garbage cans now, because we want to reduce paper and waste, right, and so how do you move people from that you know, knowing that they just throw the paper in the garbage every time to all of a sudden realizing there's no waste paper baskets.

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Now it's walk your paper to a shredder, right.

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So things like all of these little things moving an office right, Moving from one end of town to another or to another city altogether who's coming, who's not coming?

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From an HR perspective, what does that package look like?

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To roll people off because they can't go?

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There's so many different instances where you have folks that won't will come along for the ride and those will resist.

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And resistance is a huge part of the work that I do resistance management, where you really need to get to the heart of the person to understand why they're resisting.

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So it's, there are so many little pockets, but it's fun yeah, you've led us there, renee, so I'm just going to keep going down this path, the path of resistance, because it is the reality of any and all change we could talk about in theory, how great change is and it brings a lot of benefits long term.

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But talk to us about that resistance I love that term.

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Resistance management, renee.

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How do you navigate those waters?

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yeah, let me give you an example so you can have.

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I had somebody in one of my earlier change management projects where anytime that I would have like an all team meeting, just being able to let them know what some of the changes are that are coming.

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She would be at the back of the room kind of you know, making, you know, some small comments to her neighbor, and I would hear it and it'd be disruptive but I let it go once, you know.

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Then I'd be able to say, hey, you know, any call outs from the back, you know?

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And then she'd be like no, no, no, it's okay.

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And eventually at a break I kind of pulled her aside and wanted to find out, you know what's going on, because there was a lot of like visible resistance with what she was what was going on.

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And resistance can show up in so many different ways, whether it's people not showing up to work, people making comments at the water cooler, people saying this is never going to work because why it didn't work the last time.

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This is the third time they've tried this project and it's going to fail again.

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But the biggest one for me and this is the one where I do my sleuthing and I love to be able to get one-on-one with people is the fact that the system that we're taking away is ingrained in who they are and a lot of the times they are the go-to person on their team who knows the most about the system.

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So again, a new hire joins.

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You're going to send them to Sally, because Sally knows everything.

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So now we're taking away the system that Sally has been the go-to person, so her identity has been wrapped up in this system and we're taking it away.

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So now the piece about the resistance management is how do we get Sally involved?

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How do we explain to her that you know what?

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Do you want to participate in the testing so you can see how it works first, before the rest of your colleagues?

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So things like that are little ways to get people involved and to reduce that resistance.

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So there's so many different.

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You know ways of going about it, but resistance management is so critical finding it as early as possible, trying to eradicate it.

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And again, I can't.

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I'm not the wizard, I can't do it always all the time.

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I might identify it.

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Try some of my, my ways of getting people to turn around, but if they become disruptive and negative, I do have to pass that on to like, obviously, a leader in their team, whether it's their manager or what have you, because for the most part, I'm always coming in as a consultant and which is why I love talking to people, because, at the end of the day, I'm not their manager.

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I'm not going to squeal on anybody, but the key thing is to be able to pass on that there's a little rumblings on the floor that need addressing, and here are the different things we need to to address.

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So I think at the end of the day, it really comes down to how do you identify what the resistance is, find ways to get people involved and to understand resistance also comes from rumors.

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Dispel the rumors and then see what happens next.

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It's just really this finessing of your population to make sure that you don't leave anybody behind.

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Yeah gosh, I love those points and those insights, renee, especially when you talk about.

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People's identities are truly rooted in the things that they're used to.

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That's powerful stuff, so we need to recognize those are the strengths of the forces that we're up against when implementing change.

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So huge kudos to you, renee, for making that point here on the air.

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I want to ask you this, because all change doesn't result in the things that we hope for, and I think of some high profile business examples.

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I'll call out Apple.

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I have Apple everything from phones to computers, to all the things yeah, and so with that in mind, I don't know what year it was and I can't exactly remember the iphone launch, but it was the first year that apple forced I think it was the beatles new album onto every single iphone.

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People were so upset with that renee and it was a big thing.

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And apple did walk that back.

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They admitted that they inserted this musical contractual agreement that they had to millions of consumers worldwide.

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So not all change we make.

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We make most change.

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I like to think in a good hearted way, but not all change works out the way that we want.

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How much of change is that assessment of?

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Did this achieve what we hoped it achieved?

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And also part of that, I'm curious to hear your perspective on it.

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Do we?

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We have to put ego to the side.

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How much of it is us saying you know what?

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My ego has no place here.

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I want to assess this really for what it was versus what I hoped that it would be.

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Absolutely.

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That's 100% true.

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Whenever I go into a new organization and I definitely I'm a listener I'm going to listen first.

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I'm going to watch activity.

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I want to see how the organization runs.

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You know, a lot of times leaders will tell me oh my gosh, everybody's so excited about this change, this is going to be a slam dunk, no issues.

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And then, when you talk to the actual people, they're like no, this is horrible, we are not happy and I need to quickly start.

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You know, getting my ducks in a row to reconcile those two truths, you know, depending on who's saying it, but you still need to find a way to drive a message that's gonna then drive a solution, and not every like.

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You know, again, I have come up with so many different opportunities to do different things.

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I have clients who tell me Rene, you know what?

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We wanna kinda come out of the dark ages, we wanna do something radical.

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And I love communication, I love training, I love using videos, you know, and they're like yeah, let's do that, let's do that.

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And then, soon as we start getting to writing scripts and understanding what this is gonna look like, they're like well, maybe we just should just send an email or something like that.

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I'm like no, you know.

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But again, they know their culture, they know what their organization can handle.

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When there's time to push back, I'll push back, but at the end of the day, I still want to make sure that, hey, it's not, you're not hurting my feelings, this is not about me.

00:19:59.631 --> 00:20:18.694
This is about how do I get you guys to the, the future, the future state, in a way that people had either enjoyed themselves, they felt nothing, it was nice and easy, and the leadership is, is, is is happy with the results.

00:20:18.694 --> 00:20:20.855
So, yeah, I take myself out of it.

00:20:20.855 --> 00:20:22.275
It's nothing to do with me.

00:20:22.275 --> 00:20:30.644
I'm there to throw ideas, give, give you opportunities to choose what you want to do, and I would say T only take it, lee, take it or leave it.

00:20:31.711 --> 00:20:32.153
I love that.

00:20:32.153 --> 00:20:34.465
I've never heard that acronym spelled out like that.

00:20:34.465 --> 00:20:35.730
I absolutely love that I'm going to use that.

00:20:35.730 --> 00:20:40.432
Renee, I want to ask you this because, as a fellow tech junkie, you and I definitely have this in common.

00:20:40.491 --> 00:20:47.614
So I've had my Tesla for quite some time now and, living in Los Angeles, you know everybody seems to have a Tesla and I love technology.

00:20:47.673 --> 00:20:49.978
So I figured, why not get in on all the hype?

00:20:50.178 --> 00:21:06.875
And I've loved my car over the past six years now I think I've had it, but throughout that way, obviously it's changed a lot, and that's the beauty of having a car that is so technology based is that the car that I drive today has so many new features and it does things, and autopilot has developed over the past six years.

00:21:06.875 --> 00:21:16.564
But what I've noticed about the way that Tesla rolls these things out is incrementally and so, for example, the user interface has changed completely since I bought the car.

00:21:16.564 --> 00:21:25.810
But I notice it, because I'm a tech junkie, that one week I'll get in my car and I'll be like, huh, they changed the font, they changed it so subtly and most people wouldn't notice that.

00:21:25.810 --> 00:21:35.770
And, renee, I always strategically question do they do these subtle changes to the point where people adjust with that change over time, incrementally, versus what would things look like?

00:21:35.770 --> 00:21:40.843
You know, when Apple launches iOS 18 and it's rip the bandaid off, there's all new features.

00:21:40.843 --> 00:21:42.798
Siri looks completely differently.

00:21:42.798 --> 00:21:46.151
What's your take on those two different styles of rolling out change?

00:21:46.952 --> 00:21:49.077
You know what that's such a great question.

00:21:49.077 --> 00:21:53.476
And you know, I think the there's a two sides of the pie, right?

00:21:53.476 --> 00:21:56.003
Well, maybe there's three slices.

00:21:56.003 --> 00:22:08.049
There's that slice I gave early about the bank, which is tell them in advance, get everybody ready, remind them, remind them, do it, remind them, you know, and then, to your point, it's just rolling things out quietly.

00:22:08.049 --> 00:22:13.134
You know, that's really agile, where it's just, you know, just a small incremental change.

00:22:13.134 --> 00:22:16.301
People should not have to be freaking out over it.

00:22:16.301 --> 00:22:19.096
A lot of times it's not even an extra click.

00:22:19.096 --> 00:22:23.315
It might just be, to your point, a font change where they notice something different.

00:22:23.315 --> 00:22:29.659
But then it's the Apple side which is like just experience the change, you know, try it out.

00:22:29.659 --> 00:22:42.990
They give you their little cheat sheet of what you know, what's changed or what's new, and it's up to you, as the consumer, to then go in and, you know, try out all of these different, the different new functionalities that they provided.

00:22:42.990 --> 00:22:47.116
So definitely different approaches, good, better and different.

00:22:47.116 --> 00:22:48.057
I don indifferent.

00:22:48.057 --> 00:22:51.383
I think it comes with your clientele right.

00:22:51.383 --> 00:23:03.597
So again, I'm a change person and I love the let them know, give them advance warning, make them aware, because the stuff that I'm doing especially like a systems change.

00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:11.683
It is critical to the masses of users that are within a business.

00:23:11.683 --> 00:23:14.412
Now you'd say, hey, that's exactly like Apple.

00:23:14.412 --> 00:23:18.281
But we are the consumers of a tool.

00:23:18.281 --> 00:23:20.307
We already have it in our disposal.

00:23:20.307 --> 00:23:23.095
We already have the phone, we're using it every single day.

00:23:23.095 --> 00:23:31.799
They're telling us in advance hey, by the way, the next version is going to have A, b, c pictures are gonna look sharper.

00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:37.160
You know this is gonna be, you know faster, and so we have that bit of information.

00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:48.578
But then when you actually open the, the phone and they tell you what's new, there's a whole slew of other stuff that you're like wait a minute, I didn't know all that was changing too.

00:23:48.578 --> 00:24:00.590
But again, that is, that brings a different set of endorphins for a user, because it's now the, the pleasant surprise of new things, right?

00:24:00.590 --> 00:24:04.499
So there's that balance of your world is changing.

00:24:04.499 --> 00:24:06.923
It's critical that you learn this.

00:24:06.923 --> 00:24:18.321
There's going to be some rumblings versus subtlety, versus you know what the clientele has gotten used to, how we roll things out.

00:24:18.321 --> 00:24:22.299
We can continue in that method of change.

00:24:22.930 --> 00:24:24.012
Yeah, renee, I'll tell you what.

00:24:24.012 --> 00:24:30.693
Even just hearing the way that you navigate all of these considerations because really that's what it is you called it out good, bad or indifferent.

00:24:30.693 --> 00:24:31.836
It's not up for us to decide.

00:24:31.836 --> 00:24:39.471
Change is change, it is what it is, and so it's literally just that consideration set of the end user which you hit the nail on the head.

00:24:39.530 --> 00:24:49.298
And I'll call Apple out a little bit, because every time there's a major iOS update, inevitably I get those texts from my parents saying Brian, how do we do all these things that we got so used to doing?

00:24:49.298 --> 00:24:52.542
But you're right, it's all about giving people the right resources.

00:24:52.542 --> 00:25:00.653
Apple, a few years ago, started I think you directly called it out the what's New app, where when you open your phone, it walks you through with diagrams.

00:25:00.653 --> 00:25:05.042
So huge kudos to you for thinking about all these different variables.

00:25:05.042 --> 00:25:15.380
Renee, obviously you're amazing at what you do, so it comes naturally to you, but I do want to, while I've got you here on today's episode, we need to talk about your book Beyond Devil's Forest A Tale of Choice and Consequence.

00:25:15.380 --> 00:25:20.903
I think it's brilliant the way that you've weaved these real life considerations into a story.

00:25:20.903 --> 00:25:23.939
Please, you can talk about it better than anyone else on the planet.

00:25:23.939 --> 00:25:25.917
Talk to us, about our listeners, about your book.

00:25:26.690 --> 00:25:30.885
Yeah, it was just really a little passion project.

00:25:30.885 --> 00:25:36.559
I had started this book years and years and years ago and it was more of a short story.

00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:41.154
I, if you ask anybody, know that I love to try something once.

00:25:41.154 --> 00:25:42.699
Once I do it, then I'm good.

00:25:42.699 --> 00:25:45.049
And I always said I wanted to write a book.

00:25:45.049 --> 00:25:47.412
But this was started off as a short story.

00:25:48.011 --> 00:25:54.256
I am not one of those people who reads like 500 page books, like my book needs to be this thing.

00:25:54.256 --> 00:26:00.641
So you know, I thought I would just write a short story and one of the.

00:26:00.641 --> 00:26:02.342
I love to do a cruise.

00:26:02.342 --> 00:26:06.443
So I'm a Florida Floridian by heart sometimes.

00:26:06.443 --> 00:26:14.092
But when I come down I did a, did a cruise, a 45 day cruise after a long project, and I said you know what?

00:26:14.092 --> 00:26:15.973
I'm going to finish this book on this cruise.

00:26:16.554 --> 00:26:37.182
And I, as I grabbed the manuscript and I started rereading the story, I was like, oh my goodness, I could weave change management into this story and just make it almost like a pre-read and also a resemblance of what change could look like in anybody's life.

00:26:37.182 --> 00:26:42.118
And it really talks to the different types of people when you talk about change.

00:26:42.118 --> 00:26:44.824
So in any situation you'll have the.

00:26:44.824 --> 00:26:49.342
You know the early adopters who were like, yes, let's go, let's do it, I love it, I love change.

00:26:49.342 --> 00:26:56.266
Then you'll find the people who are going to resist Right, everything's evil and everybody's against you and they don't want to do it.

00:26:56.266 --> 00:26:58.643
And then you'll find the people who will be in the middle.

00:26:58.643 --> 00:27:06.384
They're like OK, let's see how the waves turning, is this a good thing for us to do?

00:27:06.384 --> 00:27:07.006
Should we go ahead and do it?

00:27:07.006 --> 00:27:08.089
And you'll have those people in the middle.

00:27:08.109 --> 00:27:43.986
And it's really about how do you know, in my little, in my story, I have these, these little villages that all have to make that decision to move to into the, the lair, so to speak, where the king lives, because in between all their villages there is the Devil's Forest and in there there are a bunch of very bad people called Grigogs, and they are moving more and more out of the forest and infiltrating the villages.

00:27:43.986 --> 00:27:51.563
And the king is basically saying, hey, come, live in the kingdom, you'll be safe, I'll give you everything you need to survive.

00:27:51.563 --> 00:27:59.703
And so you have that wrestling of people going yeah, let's go, and the other people are going no, no, no, I'm staying here.

00:27:59.703 --> 00:28:05.445
But when we go into the kingdom he's going to tax us, and you know so, trying to turn everybody else.

00:28:05.767 --> 00:28:12.067
And then the third group is like well, maybe I don't know so long story short, short story long, as they say in the Caribbean.

00:28:12.067 --> 00:28:24.012
I do that to for people to recognize themselves in the story and how they respond to change and the consequences of not changing.

00:28:24.012 --> 00:28:28.301
So that happens in the workplace and it also happens in real life.

00:28:28.301 --> 00:28:33.580
So there's opportunities missed, there's opportunities gained and it's just.

00:28:33.580 --> 00:28:35.826
It's just, it was just a fun, fun little project.

00:28:36.355 --> 00:28:37.898
Yeah, and it's absolutely brilliant, renee.

00:28:37.898 --> 00:28:51.840
When I came across your book as part of my research for today's episode, I thought to myself it's so brilliant because all of us will see ourselves in those stories and we'll immediately be able to draw those parallels and those analogies with our own lives and our own attitudes.

00:28:51.840 --> 00:29:02.690
So thank you for that overview, and I also want to transition, while we've got you here, to talk to you not only as a subject matter expert but, like I said, as one of us, a fellow entrepreneur, who's been at it for 10 years.

00:29:02.690 --> 00:29:16.705
Talk to us about some of those changes, maybe some of the changes that you imagined, as well as the many unforeseen changes, because 10 years in business, renee, is incredible and let there be many tens of more years in your future.

00:29:16.705 --> 00:29:19.737
So talk to us about that transition and the changes along the way.

00:29:20.397 --> 00:29:24.517
Yes, let me give you a first one Feast and famine.

00:29:24.517 --> 00:29:49.784
So as an entrepreneur, especially as a consultant, you will come across periods of feast, so lots of opportunities, multiple clients, and then you will have like the COVID era, where there was famine, so a lot of companies were either canceling projects or closing them down and consultants like myself were like, oh no, we need to work.

00:29:49.784 --> 00:29:58.583
And there's always, as an entrepreneur, you have to prepare for those periods.

00:29:58.583 --> 00:30:25.705
So you know, when you're flying high and your clients are coming in, you're making some good money, you're banking that money, you're reinvesting it into your company, but you're saving it for the rainy day because it's so surprising how it comes upon you and just surprises you going oh wait, I didn't even think that was going to happen either so soon or or, you know, for so long.

00:30:25.705 --> 00:30:33.364
And you come out of it and then you learn and then you're like, okay, let's make sure that the next time we do A, b and C.

00:30:33.364 --> 00:30:36.236
So, feast and famine, isa, big one.

00:30:37.136 --> 00:30:42.384
On the good side, I think it is just being able to have repeat clients.

00:30:42.384 --> 00:31:01.829
I just love that, my goal and it's kind of like my brand, as I have continued to build it and shape it and soften the edges has always been to deliver value, keeping it simple, keeping it fun, building relationships.

00:31:01.829 --> 00:31:11.320
Like most of my clients I think in almost all of my clients there's at least one or two people that I could go to their pool and hang out and have wine or have dinner with right.

00:31:11.320 --> 00:31:23.517
So the intent is that you never know when they might come across somebody who needs change management support or they might need it again in another organization that they move to.

00:31:23.517 --> 00:31:37.690
So I've always found that that has always been such a great blessing to just have repeat clients in the least likely times that you expect.

00:31:38.355 --> 00:31:40.619
Yes, gosh, renee, this is the real stuff.

00:31:40.619 --> 00:31:53.095
I so appreciate it because, really, what you've put on full display for us here today is your attitude and it's something I teased at the very beginning of this episode but it's just your attitude towards change, whether it's good, whether it's challenging.

00:31:53.095 --> 00:32:01.001
We've seen here today that you're just always willing to navigate those waters, and I so appreciate that about you and I appreciate it for you.

00:32:01.001 --> 00:32:17.423
So, renee, I have no idea how you're going to top all of this wealth of knowledge that you've already brought to us in today's episode, but I always love asking this broad question at the end, which is what's the one takeaway, that one piece of advice, knowing that we're being listened to by entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs at all different stages of their growth journey?

00:32:17.423 --> 00:32:20.957
What's that one thing that you want to impart on them at the end of today's episode?

00:32:22.017 --> 00:32:34.883
Believe it or not, I'm going to say rest, which is like, totally counterintuitive, based on everybody scrambling to get their business up and running.

00:32:34.883 --> 00:32:56.613
At the end of the day, yes, go out, start your business, do what you love, pick what you want to do, refine it, get your clients, do great work, you know, build relationships, do all of that, but don't forget, as entrepreneurs, you need to also rest, and I like to have it in four phases.

00:32:56.613 --> 00:33:03.359
I like rest, assess, refresh and then progress.

00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:25.559
And once you start, once you start your resting, it really is setting aside the work I I'm, I work by myself, so it's easy enough for me to basically, you know, close the shingles down and and and take some time, but for those who have a business where you have employees, it's really empowering your employees to handle the business while you are taking your rest.

00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:31.289
Right, and that is mental, physical, spiritual, emotional.

00:33:31.289 --> 00:33:35.102
Gather yourself, you know, really just decompress.

00:33:35.102 --> 00:33:37.548
And that's again going back to my cruises.

00:33:37.548 --> 00:33:48.871
I love to plan a cruise when I know my project is coming to a close, because A it's something to look forward to and I know I'll be able to really relax at that time.

00:33:48.871 --> 00:33:54.384
That rolls then into assess, and now I've had a chance to rest.

00:33:54.755 --> 00:34:08.373
I'm going to look back now and assess that last project and go what did I really enjoy about it, what didn't I like so much and what would I do differently the next time, because that really helps shape again.

00:34:08.373 --> 00:34:22.385
We're always reshaping our business, curving the edges and being able to say, well, okay, if I ever come across another opportunity, I'm not gonna sell in this activity because I really didn't enjoy it.

00:34:22.385 --> 00:34:30.148
Or if it's necessary for your business, then how do you smooth it out so that it could be tolerable, right?

00:34:30.148 --> 00:34:35.027
So okay, assessing what worked, what didn't work, what would you do differently.

00:34:35.027 --> 00:34:37.021
Then I get into refresh.

00:34:37.021 --> 00:34:41.123
So okay, now it's time you got to get ready for the next opportunity.

00:34:41.835 --> 00:34:43.021
How do you refresh yourself?

00:34:43.021 --> 00:34:47.380
Get ready, get hyped, get your energy back, and for me, that's tennis.

00:34:47.380 --> 00:34:48.121
I love tennis.

00:34:48.121 --> 00:34:51.159
I'm a doubles player, so I'm always.

00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:56.864
Anytime I can get out on the courts, I love it, and that gets me really hyped and ready to go.

00:34:56.864 --> 00:35:01.179
And then, finally progress, move on to your next project.

00:35:01.179 --> 00:35:08.523
And then, finally progress, move on to your next project smarter, stronger and still willing to learn something new.

00:35:08.523 --> 00:35:15.784
Because at the end of the day, that's what we do as entrepreneurs we're constantly learning and again, let's try and do something.

00:35:15.784 --> 00:35:23.179
Again in the new year, let's share with another entrepreneur something that we've learned, so that we can constantly help building each other's up as well.

00:35:24.121 --> 00:35:30.141
Boom, renee, you have set such a high bar for all of our content here in 2025.

00:35:30.141 --> 00:35:31.949
And I'll say this while we're on the air.

00:35:31.949 --> 00:35:48.085
Normally I say it after we're done recording, but I'll just tell you this I always love telling my guests that, hey, we're going to have a coffee one day in person together, but I'm not going to extend that offer to you, renee, because you and I we're going to have a coffee one day in person together, but I'm not going to extend that offer to you, renee, because you and I we got to play some doubles and we both need to be at the net and we need to dominate our opponents.

00:35:48.085 --> 00:35:50.523
I'm looking forward to that day especially.

00:35:50.523 --> 00:35:53.485
So, renee, honestly, you've been such a wealth of knowledge.

00:35:53.485 --> 00:35:58.358
The energy you put into the world is something that I knew you'd bring to our episode here today, and I'm so grateful for that.

00:35:58.358 --> 00:36:05.369
So, listeners who want to navigate these waters with you or have a conversation with you, you've got to drop those links on us.

00:36:05.369 --> 00:36:06.951
Where should listeners go from here?

00:36:07.855 --> 00:36:11.141
Yeah, my website is JanusManagementGroupcom.

00:36:11.141 --> 00:36:13.525
J-a-n-u-s Management Group.

00:36:13.525 --> 00:36:14.708
All one word dot com.

00:36:14.708 --> 00:36:18.061
Please send me an email through there.

00:36:18.061 --> 00:36:20.818
I also have like a little YouTube channel, Renee Holder.

00:36:20.818 --> 00:36:24.878
It's a little side project that I did during COVID as well.

00:36:24.878 --> 00:36:32.724
But, yeah, please reach out, Glad to chat, glad to give advice and cheer everybody on.

00:36:33.304 --> 00:36:35.311
Yes, listeners, don't be shy.

00:36:35.311 --> 00:36:40.284
Wherever it is that you're tuning into today's episode, we are putting those links down below in the show notes.

00:36:40.284 --> 00:36:43.362
You can click right on through to Janiceanagementgroupcom.

00:36:43.362 --> 00:36:47.425
Or both Renee and myself are looking for doubles opponents, so don't be shy.

00:36:47.425 --> 00:36:50.016
Coast to coast, anywhere on the East Coast, we're there.

00:36:50.016 --> 00:36:59.681
But, renee, in all seriousness, I so appreciate you, not only kicking off a new year of content here on the show, but I appreciate all the knowledge you've shared with us, the energy you bring to the table.

00:37:06.114 --> 00:37:07.880
So, on behalf of myself and all the listeners, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

00:37:07.902 --> 00:37:08.503
Thank you, this was so awesome.

00:37:08.503 --> 00:37:08.925
You guys are awesome.

00:37:08.925 --> 00:37:13.219
Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:37:13.219 --> 00:37:17.195
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:37:17.195 --> 00:37:23.967
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom.

00:37:24.047 --> 00:37:26.429
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00:37:26.429 --> 00:37:35.224
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00:37:35.224 --> 00:37:37.257
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00:37:37.257 --> 00:37:38.860
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00:37:38.860 --> 00:37:42.346
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00:37:42.346 --> 00:37:53.307
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00:37:53.307 --> 00:38:01.786
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00:38:01.786 --> 00:38:03.119
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00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:07.764
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00:38:07.764 --> 00:38:09.148
Initiate a live chat.

00:38:09.148 --> 00:38:18.581
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