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Hey, what is up?
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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.
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As always, I'm your host, brian Lofermento, and I'll tell you what today's entrepreneur is, someone that, as soon as I saw her origin story, I thought to myself we need to have her on the show, because this is someone that I relate to so many aspects of the way she started, from just starting a blog to following a passion, and now she's way cooler than I'll ever be, because she is harnessing AI for a very cool usage, launching a tech company that is going to reach a lot of people and impact a lot of people in very positive ways ways I can't necessarily personally relate to, but we're going to hear so much about the way that today's entrepreneur thinks, the way that she is of service to others and the way that she's bringing her passions to the world.
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So let me tell you all about today's guest.
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Her name is Ryan Knight.
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She's Chicago-born and beauty-obsessed.
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Ryan is a customer success leader with over a decade of experience in retail and fintech.
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As a servant leader with a creative flair, she has spent more than 10 years as a makeup artist and she moonlights as a stylist, making it her mission to bring out the beauty in everything.
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Now she's channeling her passion into her company, her startup called honey to coco, which is an ai powered app helping people of color find their perfect makeup match.
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When she's not revolutionizing beauty tech, you'll find her curating stunning dinner parties, designing chic interiors or binge watching harry potter in anime, just like the rest of us trying to unwind in all of our own ways.
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I'm curating stunning dinner parties, designing chic interiors or binge-watching Harry Potter and anime, just like the rest of us trying to unwind in all of our own ways.
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I'm so excited to get into the mind of Ryan here today in this conversation, so I'm not going to say anything else.
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Let's dive straight into my interview with Ryan Knight.
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All right, ryan, I'm so excited that you're here with us today.
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First things first.
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Welcome to the show.
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Thank you.
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Thanks so much for having me Excited to be here.
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Heck, yes.
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Well, ryan, you are doing cool work, and AI is such a buzz topic these days.
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We're definitely going to talk about that, but before we get there, take us on a more macro level.
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Who's Ryan?
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How'd you start doing all these cool things?
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Yeah, well, again, I'm Ryan, founder of Honey to Coco, and we are leveraging AI to help people of color match makeup to their unique skin tones.
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And I started my career at Macy's, actually as a customer success manager, and then worked my way into FinTech or FinTech in customer success and did that for several years, but on the weekends and at night I would do makeup artistry, so I'd have wedding clients, graduations, just because and I do makeup for people, and I noticed that there was a gap in the industry for people of color, particularly where they weren't feeling included.
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They weren't feeling like they could actually find their perfect match, and so I started a blog to try to solve that problem and then realized that I could probably make this more scalable and then pivoted over to the app.
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So that's what I've been doing for the past few years.
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Yes, I love that overview, ryan.
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I don't know if you at all know my background story, but when I was 19, I loved soccer, and so I started a soccer blog, ryan, I truly did it, just because I loved writing about soccer, and if anyone read it, I mean the more the merrier.
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It was just sheer luck at that point.
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It was funny for me, though, because when read it, I mean the more the merrier is just sheer luck at that point.
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It was funny for me, though, because that turned into my first business.
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I could not predict all the things that came and, and it grew beyond my wildest desires.
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I'm curious if that's a similar part of your story as well, where it was just born out of passion, or did you understand the opportunity with regards to it becoming a business?
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It's scaling with regards to impacting so many people all around the world.
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What was your mindset like when you started that blog?
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Yeah, it was more so, something that was built out of passion, right.
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So it was this thing where I had a daytime job.
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I had a job that was, by all intents and purposes, respectable, right, something that you do to generate income that your parents can be proud of and boast about.
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But there was always this part of me that was so, so passionate about beauty and I couldn't let it go, and so I was more than willing to try to solve this gap that I witnessed by means of, like a blog.
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And at first, it was just this thing where I'm like, okay, like I'm frustrated that people of color experience in this.
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So I want to help and this is fun to do.
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And I had a really good time, had a blast Every time I had a client.
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Every time I did makeup, it was fun for me, it didn't feel like work.
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A blast Every time I had a client.
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Every time I did makeup, it was fun for me, it didn't feel like work.
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But then I really started to wonder is there a way that I could make this thing that I'm passionate about something that I can do for a living, something that I can use to generate income for myself?
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And when I really conceptualized the idea for how we could take this blog to a place where we could generate income or at least pivot away from the blog and pivot toward the app.
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I really started to realize, ok, I can definitely do both of these things.
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Yeah, ryan, I love hearing the way you talk about it because it takes me right back to my blogging days.
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It felt like the B word.
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I was like I don't want to tell people I have a blog, and you're right.
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I love the fact that you even interjected.
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You know, something that makes your parents proud.
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I used to love my mom was a hairdresser and so I used to always love when her clients would say what does your son do?
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And she would say he has a blog.
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Like it's such this unknown thing, ryan, and I'm glad that you felt that as well.
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But I will point out it sounds to me like one of those things that you went through is that you didn't need to force it.
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You didn't need it to be a revenue generator.
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You truly got to hone your skills in and you identified that need in the marketplace and got that traction of an audience, which I think that that's something that you and I had the advantage of.
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It wasn't our full-time jobs when we started it.
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A lot of people.
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I think how you and I are talking about the B word of blog and the somewhat shame that comes along with it.
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I think too many people mistake having a full-time job when they start their business as something.
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That's a little bit shameful, but I think it's a leg up.
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I think it's beautiful that you didn't have to worry about revenue at that time.
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Talk to me about those beginnings, because a lot of entrepreneurs never want to admit that or be in those circumstances, but I think it's an advantage.
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Yeah, I will say never be ashamed of staying at your full-time job if you have to.
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Staying at your full-time job if you have to, you will probably grossly underestimate how much money that you will need to have coming in as far as your income.
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So in the beginning stages I knew, when I first started working in FinTech I knew that I wanted Honey to Coco to be the thing that I did full-time.
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And in knowing that, I really capitalized on the opportunity that I had being at my full-time job.
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And so I was in a director level position there and I spent that time building the skills that I feel will be relevant to running Honey to Cocoa.
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And so at that job I had multiple lines of business.
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I helped to run our customer success department.
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I had direct reports and indirect reports.
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I led leaders and processes and it was super, super fun and really gave me the skill sets that I needed to really run or scale Honey to Coco.
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But aside from that, I also designed my life to fit into this future state of like okay, I'm not going to have this income going forward.
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I don't know what it's going to look like, this income going forward.
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I don't know what it's going to look like and I don't know how long it'll take me to fundraise.
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So I Really focused on saving, focused on things like paying my car off early.
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I bought a duplex so that I can live in one side and rent out the other side.
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So I really designed my life to other sides.
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I really designed my life to fit this future state and really took advantage of where I was, when I was at my full-time job, and for me there was no shame at all.
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I really took my time and I left when I felt the time was right.
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Gosh.
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Ryan, I so appreciate the way you show up the fact that you're talking about these things so transparently.
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This is the real stuff.
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When I was 19, starting my first business, I wish I could hear conversations like this one, because setting yourself up for success life-wise that's the reason why you're able to flourish business-wise is because you realize how much all of these things play together.
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So huge kudos to you and so appreciative of the way that you share this with us.
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I want to ask you honey to Coco, we've got to talk specifically about the fact that you're using AI in such a cool way.
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Ryan, I hear so many people talking about AI and we're all familiar with chat, gpt.
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Where did this idea come from?
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Obviously, you saw the gap in the marketplace, but specifically applying the powers of AI to it.
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Talk to us about those beginnings.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So this is really interesting because when I was thinking about how to solve this problem the way I would describe it to my friends I'm like, look, there should be a thing where you can hold your phone up to your face and the camera can extract the pixels from your skin and it can tell you what products to use.
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And I had that idea prior to AI really taking off and computer vision being a thing, right.
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So I was conceptualizing this idea well before the technology was truly available, and that's why I went to the blog.
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It's like I'll just do that until I really develop what this idea is, what this thing means.
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And so then afterwards I started to really do a little bit more research and realize that now we're in this space where the technology has improved, particularly in computer vision, which is what we're using on our app and because of those improvements we're now able to build exactly what we want to build.
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So it took me maybe about I want to say a year for me to really conceptualize the architecture of like how I wanted the technology to work and then to partner with the right people who would be able to build what I was asking for.
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Yeah, ryan, you probably were like me, then.
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I settle any color debates.
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When people are like is this dress gold or white or blue?
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Whatever that meme viral was, I just think to myself I'll drop it in Photoshop, use the eyedropper tool, I'll tell you exactly what color it is, because it's possible, and I love the fact that you're applying tech to do that and actually help humans, as opposed to just solve memes that we all see online.
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So talk to us about that, though, because starting a blog is one thing, and anyone can start a blog within 10 minutes.
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It's the beauty of blogging and why I'm so grateful.
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Both you and I have that in common as part of our path, but launching an AI powered app is a totally different project.
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You clearly are a builder at heart.
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How did you start bringing these things into reality?
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Because it's a huge project, I imagine.
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Yes, a big project, probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do.
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We're still doing it.
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So, to start, I had to first understand how do we quantify color Aside from our eyes, right?
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So I'm looking at my shirt and I'm like, okay, this is gray, but how do you quantify that?
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What kind of gray?
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Right, and I stumbled upon these like spectrophotometer devices, and I purchased one and I just played around with it and understood how color was quantified across various spectrums and in color spaces.
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And then, once we decided on a color space that we were going to use, we then had to figure out how do we then connect the colors, how we quantify color from product to how we quantify color from skin, and so we had to then figure out what that architecture would look like and what those algorithms look like, and then, ultimately, how to connect all of them together and then build something that continuously improves upon itself as more people use it.
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So, yeah, like I said before, it took me maybe about a year to kind of sit and research and play around with, like, how to make all of these separate parts talk to one another, and essentially what we're doing is training ai to essentially perform the same tasks as one of those fancy spectral photometer devices, except you'll be able to do it from your phone and it'll be specifically tailored to quantifying pieces of skin on your face.
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Wow, okay, so I already knew it was going to be a lot of work, but hearing you really break it down into those chunks showcases truly how much it is.
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I want to ask you about both sides of it, because and maybe it's more than just two I'm picturing it as two sides One, which is, of course, the users who are showing their skin and looking for that perfect makeup match, and then the other side of it is, of course, the makeup match, and so I'm wondering like other side of it is, of course, the makeup match, and so I'm wondering like do you have this giant catalog of makeup brands and makeup colors and how those play nicely with them?
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You have to simultaneously build that up while you're also building the user base.
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What are all these different components that your executive mind is thinking about?
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Yeah.
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So, yes, we do have a database full of products, and I will say too, I really want people to know that I've purchased every single product that we feature on the app, and right now we're only doing like foundation makeup to start, and then we'll we'll venture off to the things like lipsticks and blush and all that, but to start foundation, and I have bought every single product that we feature on the app and I have scanned it with our device.
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And I have bought every single product that we feature on the app and I have scanned it with our device and I have extracted that color.
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So, yes, we have a huge database there, and one thing that we're wanting to do is partner with beauty brands, because not only are we providing a service for people of color and helping them find the best match, we're also giving brands the opportunity to get introduced to more customers, to build their brand awareness, and so that's why, right now, we're really targeting those small, independent beauty brands who don't really have any good tools to help people in their makeup matching, and so we think of ourselves as just that conduit right To get the customer to the brands and get the brands to the customers, so that customers spend less time researching, more time shopping, and then brands spend less time trying to figure out how to give customers more guidance and we can be that third party to really give their customers what they need and connect people sooner.
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Yes, ryan, I'm going to publicly praise you here because I think that that is just one example of how brilliant you are in the way that you figure out.
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This is where we fit in the marketplace as that conduit.
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It's, from a strategic perspective, just so smart that you recognize that bridge between customers and the brands who can serve them.
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I'm going to I feel silly asking you this question, but I'm going to do it on the air because, as a podcast host, I always think about what listeners may be asking themselves and, ryan, I'm excited to hear the way you quickly dismiss this question.
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I'm going to ask you but that is a lot of people might be thinking and they might trick themselves into having this limiting belief of well, why would I partner with the brands?
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Aren't they just going to create something similar and have that be the bridge to their customers?
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Can't they just take that idea from me and implement it?
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Obviously, there's a lot of work that goes into it.
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So, ryan, for all the listeners out there who have convinced themselves of this limiting belief, what's your take on that?
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I would say that that is a very valid concern, but one thing that you should think about is that just because someone can, doesn't mean they should, right?
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So that's a question I'm asked all the time from like investors or just people.
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They're like what if a brand comes and they just do it and I'm like, listen, they're a beauty brand.
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We are a tech company, we just do a beauty thing.
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Right, we're a tech company that does a beauty thing, provides a beauty service.
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So our expertise is the tech.
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Our expertise is in that architecture and what we're building, that we stand behind in terms of accuracy, and what they're good at is creating products that people love.
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And so, yeah, while it's a valid concern, I think when you think about how difficult it is to really build something like this, I think those companies are better served licensing technology or licensing whatever service you're providing from you.
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It saves them a lot more time, probably a lot more resources and money in the long run.
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Boom, I absolutely knew that you'd crush that question and I'm so grateful that I did ask it because those are real strategic insights and I love the fact that you've already thought about them.
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You talk about licensing, and where my head goes, even just hearing the way you talk about it, is actually everybody wins.
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The more successful honey to cocoa is, everybody wins the more people that use it, because they'll sell more products.
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And when they sell those products I think this is an important point they're going to be selling it to people who it's the perfect match for them and they'll become lifelong customers.
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So it makes sense for these brands to want Honey to Coco to succeed, and so, with that in mind, you bring up licensing as just one example.
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What are those different monetization strategies that you're looking at?
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Because obviously there's a million of them, but I'm super curious to hear where your executive mind goes there yeah, there's so many, and thankfully so, because we want to be diverse in how we go about driving revenue, and so the first obvious one would be the direct to consumer.
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So we'll have a freemium model where, um, some of our features will be available for free, but there will be some that will be behind a paywall, obviously.
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And then we'll have a B2B component where we would want to get commission for every transaction that's fulfilled by our beauty brand partners as a result of us recommending the product.
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We also want to leverage ad space right, we're an app we want to leverage, allowing brands to get their products featured at the top of our marketplace, because, I mean, not only are we a makeup artist in your pocket, we're a marketplace, right.
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So having those brands have the opportunity to be right at the top, to get to those customers quicker.
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And then, I think, future state later down the line.
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We do want to license or white label our technology.
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We want to be on those brands' websites or on their apps, or even in-store, if there's a way that there's a QR code that you scan on a product in the store and then it pulls up our app and it tells you like, hey, maybe this isn't the best product for you, we would recommend this.
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These are all things that we're thinking about in terms of monetization.
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Yes, and I love the fact that you already are thinking that far into the future, which, while I've got a tech CEO here with me today, I've got to inevitably ask you about the future of tech, and obviously AI is so central to your business.
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I said it at the top of the episode that everyone wants to talk about AI, but I feel like we're talking about it in such a limited way just because the market is obviously distracted by the giants Chachi, pt, what Google's doing with Gemini and all the other different AI things.
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From your perspective, you're bringing AI that actually does something to make someone's life better.
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As far as giving them, we can say, the word beauty, but I would argue you're giving them confidence.
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You're doing so much good for the people that are using everything that Honey to Cocoa is putting into the world.
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What's the future of AI in your perspective?
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Yeah, you know it's a hard question to answer because I think it ultimately depends.
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I would say I see AI becoming a tool to really help alleviate some pains in the human experience.
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Some of the things that are interesting to me aside from, obviously, what we're doing is that we're using AI in the medical field to be able to detect early, early stages of breast cancer, and I believe, from what I've read, that AI has either on par or better than actual doctors at detecting and diagnosing early.
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And if we continue to build things in that direction to really allow humans to either just flourish, thrive, give us time back so that we can spend more time on things that are super important, I see AI going in that direction, but also there are the downsides, because there are pros and cons to everything and there are things that we should be very cautious about in terms of how we use AI.
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But I don't think that's an indictment on AI itself.
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I think it's mostly how we as human beings decide to harness that technology.
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What we decide is ethically and morally sound and the good thing about that is we make those choices.
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So, in totality, I do see AI becoming a tool that we use to really help us get back to what's important, and I assume that to be our passions, things that make us feel joyful our family, our community, our connections.
00:22:51.906 --> 00:22:56.882
And yeah, I'm really excited for what's to come.
00:22:56.882 --> 00:23:12.539
I mean, I have an idea of what we're building, but one thing I do know is that your solutions change over time, so I'm even excited for what the technology will look like that we're building that I don't even have an awareness of quite yet.
00:23:13.142 --> 00:23:14.246
Yes, so true.
00:23:14.246 --> 00:23:19.663
It's why I love that entrepreneurial quote of entrepreneurs jump off the cliff and build the parachute on the way down.
00:23:19.663 --> 00:23:21.067
It's so true of so many of us.
00:23:21.067 --> 00:23:30.111
Ryan, I'm going to put you on the spot for a second here because I love the way that you're showing up with us in today's conversation, because everything seems so.
00:23:30.111 --> 00:23:31.756
I'll pick a word that you said.
00:23:31.756 --> 00:23:40.885
It seems so joyful for you, you radiate energy and you're smiling and it's clear that you're so fun and playful in the things that you work on.
00:23:41.307 --> 00:23:50.821
With that said, as someone who also is just a natural smiler, a lot of people look and they think that it's easy, they think that there's no struggles along the way.
00:23:50.821 --> 00:23:57.523
Because, ryan, I'll say as someone from the outside looking in, is that it just seems like you very seamlessly bounce from.
00:23:57.523 --> 00:23:58.869
Well, this is what's happening.
00:23:58.869 --> 00:24:03.022
So I'm going to move on to something else and I'm going to pivot my way through any of the obstacles.
00:24:03.022 --> 00:24:06.679
Talk to us about those obstacles, ryan, because I know that they've been abundant.
00:24:06.679 --> 00:24:12.057
I know that you are resilient and you've got tenacity to support all of these things that you're working on.
00:24:12.057 --> 00:24:15.935
Talk to us about that side of it that a lot of people probably want to overlook.
00:24:16.938 --> 00:24:21.807
Yeah, you know, one thing I'll say is when.
00:24:21.807 --> 00:24:36.355
One thing I've learned is that it's supposed to be hard, and I think once I made peace with that, it became a little easier the further you go.
00:24:36.355 --> 00:24:39.422
They say new level, new devil, right.
00:24:39.422 --> 00:24:51.848
So you overcome those obstacles, but then there are new ones and because you overcame the old ones, you have more skills and more knowledge to help you jump through the other ones.
00:24:51.848 --> 00:25:03.036
I'll say, aside from the business, right, I had a lot of personal obstacles when I was a sophomore in college.
00:25:05.098 --> 00:25:16.703
I woke up one day randomly and I technically just really couldn't eat for a year, like I was eating smoothies and I was hospitalized.
00:25:16.703 --> 00:25:23.020
They didn't know what was wrong with me and it was a huge obstacle to my education.
00:25:23.020 --> 00:25:37.903
I think I was working at the time and I was also pre-med at this time, so I was trying to go to medical school and that was one of the scariest and hardest things I've ever had to experience in my life.
00:25:37.903 --> 00:25:56.316
But I decided in that moment that I was going to be well and that, even though doctors were puzzled and no one knew how to help me, at least I had hope and I leveraged that and I decided that I would be well.
00:25:56.316 --> 00:26:04.756
I decided that I had a choice and I got well, and I still have after effects of that to this day.
00:26:04.756 --> 00:26:09.285
So I still have some health issues that sometimes get in the way of me running my business.
00:26:09.285 --> 00:26:20.785
I may have to take a day off to rest, but in experiencing that I realized that if I could get through that, I could get through anything.
00:26:21.987 --> 00:26:33.851
And so in all of the obstacles that I've faced in my business, I just realized like hey, this is just a moment in time.
00:26:33.851 --> 00:26:36.575
What I'm doing is incredibly difficult.
00:26:36.575 --> 00:26:41.047
That's why 90% of the population isn't doing it right.
00:26:41.047 --> 00:26:58.763
It's really hard, it's supposed to be hard, and all I have is hope that I am following my intuition, that I'm doing what I am put here to do, and that what's for me won't pass me by.
00:26:58.763 --> 00:27:09.115
And if I put in enough work and I follow joy, then I can't lose.
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:31.224
But I also know that with anything there's a chance that maybe it won't play out the way that I thought it should, but it almost always plays out the way that it should, and then it brings you to that next leg in your journey and you can kind of look back and maybe it's just coping, Maybe it's a coping mechanism, but it works for me.
00:27:31.224 --> 00:27:47.022
I can look back and I can see why it had to play out that way and why everything is so interconnected in the most spooky way sometimes, why everything is so interconnected in the most spooky way sometimes.
00:27:47.022 --> 00:27:48.586
So I think you know I've always had an inner strength.
00:27:48.586 --> 00:28:10.105
I've always had the ability to make a choice, that I was going to get through it, and I've always just knew that if I had hope and I had enough joy that I cultivated on my own, that I could get through anything.
00:28:10.909 --> 00:28:12.585
Yes, so beautifully said.
00:28:12.585 --> 00:28:22.692
Ryan, I really appreciate you sharing that story and the journey that you've been on with us here today, and especially the mindset that you've developed along the way to cope through all of it.
00:28:22.692 --> 00:28:24.086
And I think that it's so important.
00:28:24.086 --> 00:28:31.980
It really reveals and this is so true of so many incredible entrepreneurs that you're invested deeply into your own personal growth and development.
00:28:32.041 --> 00:28:37.021
We here on the show obviously we love talking business growth, but it doesn't come without that personal growth.
00:28:37.021 --> 00:28:41.848
So I want to ask you, how's that manifest into your day-to-day or your week-to-week or month-to-month?
00:28:41.848 --> 00:28:55.805
For me personally, I love Sunday coffee dates with myself where I just sit and I think I set those intentions and those strategies and I'm very strategic in the way that I ask myself questions of what's working, what's not working, what do I want to change, what needs to change?
00:28:55.805 --> 00:28:57.467
How does that look in your life?
00:28:57.467 --> 00:28:59.150
Is it books that you read, is it?
00:28:59.150 --> 00:29:05.458
I know that you know we joke about Harry Potter and anime, but, truth be told, all of these things are part of our self-care routine.
00:29:05.458 --> 00:29:12.902
How does that manifest in both your life and your business when it comes to that executive time and intentionality and strategy?
00:29:13.825 --> 00:29:25.798
Yeah, that's a good question, because a lot of people do ask me well, how do you balance your work with your personal life and your hobbies and things like that?
00:29:25.798 --> 00:29:43.605
And honestly, I don't see those things as separate, um, and I think it's the seeing them as separate that causes this inner conflict where I'm like, okay, well, I've got to make sure I have enough time to spend with friends, and then you become super like presive about it and I hate that.
00:29:43.605 --> 00:30:07.181
So I think what works for me is and I know that in order for me to be a good entrepreneur, in order for me to be a good leader, I have to have a full cup, and I know what fills my cup are my friendships, my personal relationships, and I know that my hobbies fill my cup.
00:30:07.181 --> 00:30:10.107
I know that Russ fills my cup.
00:30:10.107 --> 00:30:24.896
I know that a full three-day weekend marathon of watching Harry Potter fills my cup, and I don't shy away from doing those things for the sake of being able to say that I worked 12 hours.
00:30:26.078 --> 00:30:45.531
I have a list of things that I have to do every week and I I have my tasks separated by hourly, hourly chunks and I get those tasks done according to what they are.
00:30:45.531 --> 00:30:59.452
So if it's fundraising stuff that I do from like 9.30 to 10.30 every day, I have a list of things for that week that I want to do for fundraising stuff and so on and so forth, and then I have just free time.
00:30:59.452 --> 00:31:02.387
I have free time built in my schedule to do whatever I want.
00:31:02.387 --> 00:31:06.508
So if that's me taking a Pilates class, that's what I'm gonna do.
00:31:06.508 --> 00:31:12.637
If that's me going to lunch with a friend or going to a happy hour, that's what I'm gonna do.
00:31:12.637 --> 00:31:28.144
And so I I schedule my days to fit all of the things that are important to me, so that I'm allowed to keep my cup overflowing, if you will, but also show up in the business.
00:31:28.144 --> 00:31:31.691
And so I don't try to balance it per se.
00:31:31.691 --> 00:31:36.786
It's more so that all of it is working harmoniously for me.
00:31:37.527 --> 00:31:39.971
Yes, not those opposing forces.
00:31:40.011 --> 00:31:51.106
We've had so many guests on in the past that have directly called out that phrase that we use so frequently in society of work-life balance, as opposed as indicating like they're on opposite sides of the seesaw.
00:31:51.441 --> 00:32:01.779
When one goes down, the other must go up, and I love the fact that you utilize and thinking of you get to do all of these things and encompass free time and your business and your friends.
