1026: Building THRIVING workplace cultures and ATTRACTING the RIGHT talent w/ Shelia Matthews

Transcript

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, Brian LoFermento, and today we are talking about something that we all need to confront along our entrepreneurial growth journeys, and this is something that I would argue it's one of the most difficult things to get right in business, because it deals with the most complex aspect of all of our businesses, and that is the people.

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And today we're talking all about culture, and we've brought on someone who just has such an incredible knack and ability and insights for creating the right culture.

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So let me tell you all about today's guest.

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Her name is Sheila Matthews.

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Sheila is a true champion when it comes to cultivating vibrant workplace cultures and making it look effortless.

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Gosh, isn't that what we're all looking for?

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Her secret Mastering the people part and watching everything else fall into place.

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With a career as diverse as a painter's palette, Sheila has left her mark on a multitude of industries spanning transportation, manufacturing and services, among others.

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She's worked for industry giants like UPS and MetLife, as well as overseeing the people function for startups like Acquisitioncom, where she quickly scaled several small teams into impressive armies of talent.

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Now, for those of you who are thinking well, my business is different or my industry is different, or I've got a remote team.

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Sheila has been there and done that, and so much that she's going to share with us in today's episode not only applies to where you may be in your existing business growth, but, most importantly, it has that eye to the future, of what type of company you want to build and what type of culture you want to create.

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So that's why I'm personally super excited to learn from Sheila today.

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I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Sheila Matthews.

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All right, Sheila, I'm so excited that you're here with us today.

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First things first.

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Welcome to the show.

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Thank you so much for having me, Brian.

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I am so excited to be here.

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Heck.

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Yes, we are all very excited to learn from you, especially because I talked about a little bit in your bio, but your diverse set of experiences, sheila, it seems like you worked in so many different environments.

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We're talking business sizes, we're talking types of companies, kind of the young, fun, agile ones like acquisitioncom, as well as the giants we've all heard of.

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So you've got to take us beyond the bio.

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Who's Sheila?

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How'd you start doing all these cool things?

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Yeah, thank you.

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So you know, when I first got into people and culture, it was really through learning and development.

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I had a knack for training materials, standing up in front of people and giving presentations and facilitating, and I started at L&D and then, interestingly, took like a side swipe into hiring.

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Back in the day when I worked at MetLife, and when they hired me I was like I don't understand why you guys are hiring me.

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I've never hired anybody in my entire life before.

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And they were like we'll teach you that part.

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You are a good judge of character and that is more important than any of the stuff that we'll teach you.

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The stuff that we'll teach you, we'll get you there the rest of the way.

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And I was like, oh, okay, so I kind of just took a leap of faith and jumped in and it stuck.

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You know, I've I've done a lot of different areas of people and culture and even HR in my career.

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Uh, but the hiring piece is really what.

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I've kind of ended up developing a name for myself around.

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Yeah, I love that, especially because, as someone who, over 16 years of being an entrepreneur, I've hired so many different people and I know that that's really the first step.

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Obviously, they come across our businesses before they ever see our job postings, but really our one-to-one interactions with them begin through that process.

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So, sheila, when we talk about hiring, what's the scope of what you assess and what you look at?

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Because that's the first step of really starting our culture and starting the feelings, the emotions, the culture that we want to create in our own businesses.

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I love this question.

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I could talk about this all day.

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Okay, so there's really three big things, and then there's like an unspoken fourth that you know I'm being a little sarcastic, you'll see what I mean.

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But knowledge, skills and abilities those are the three big things.

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What happens sometimes when entrepreneurs start their hiring journey is they start with culture and trust.

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Don't get me wrong.

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Trust is super important, but what happens when you're only looking through culture and trust is that you're not really scrubbing whether they have the knowledge, the skills, the experience to do the thing that you're hiring them to do.

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And so whether I'm I've helped someone with their very first hire, which I would argue is always the most important one, right?

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Or you know, like we're in number 5 000 I'm always looking for first do they have the things that I need?

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I don't want to have to hire someone that I have to teach everything to.

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I want them to come in with a very solid foundation of the thing that I'm hiring them to do for me.

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Then I start looking at culture fit and personality fit, and to me one isn't more important than the other.

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You have to have both sides of it in excess, especially when you're small and growing.

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Yeah, hearing you talk about this, sheila, I always think to myself and I especially think about this within the context of marketing is how simple these things sound when we tune into a podcast episode or we watch a YouTube video.

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But, of course, the actual practicality of it is extremely difficult to get right, and so my question to you we're going to get into this really early on in our conversation today is how do we assess these things?

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You talk about the knowledge, the skills, the abilities.

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How do we figure out Because it's easy for people to say, oh yeah, I know how to use this tool and that tool and to do those processes how do we actually assess if they're accurate in their own assessment of themselves?

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Oh, actually assess if they're accurate in their own assessment of themselves.

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Oh my goodness, yeah, it does get a little tricky, admittedly, I sometimes forget.

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I've been doing this for a really long time and so, but, but here's.

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Here's what I would recommend.

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Number one if you've never written a job description before, don't let this hire be the first time that you try it.

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If you need someone to help you with marketing, hire be the first time that you try it.

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If you need someone to help you with marketing, go on Indeed and LinkedIn and find an existing marketing director or marketing assistant or marketing manager job description and work from that.

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You don't necessarily want to just lift it and use it as is, but use that to help you form the requirements and the skills.

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Read several of them.

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Do the research.

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You have to put the work in in the beginning when you're when you're not a hiring professional, to figure out is the thing I need one what the market calls it, or am I calling it something weird?

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Two is it what I think it is?

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I've had people tell me I need a marketing person, I need a marketing person, and then, when they start telling me the specific tasks they want that person to do I'm like that's a sales manager.

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I don't, where did you get marketing from?

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I don't understand, like, how did?

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How did you get there?

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And they're like, oh, I guess I just thought because it had to do with leads, you know.

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And I'm like, okay, so first Put in the research.

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You can use chat GPT.

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Oh my gosh, it's such a wonderful tool for just cranking out a job description template to get you started in an area.

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And then the next step is to really talk to a couple of people who you think is doing the job you need.

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So it's not because you're just.

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I will go and find people on LinkedIn who are doing what I think that job is and I'll just ask them to take a 15 minute call with me.

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Like, hey, I'm working in this space.

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I've never filled a role.

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It sounds like you're doing some of this job, but you might happen on a call and just telling me a little bit about what you do.

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I have yet to have anyone tell me no, it's such a low point of entry.

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And then sometimes that person does turn into a candidate.

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I mean, right, like you never know, sometimes you get lucky.

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Yeah, sheila, I love that.

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I've actually never heard that advice before.

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But I'll tell you what.

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As a podcast host, I'm biased in the belief that all conversations are good conversation.

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It's it's.

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It's so cool to hear how you apply that to your own industry, because you're not talking about interviewing these people for the sake of potentially hiring them.

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You're talking about interviewing them for the sake of you yourself, the business owner or the hiring manager, learning more about that role in other organizations, which that intelligence is only going to benefit all of our businesses.

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And, as you said, a natural by-product is heck.

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It might work out with that person and they might be the ideal candidate.

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So I really love those insights.

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I'm going to keep following this process with you.

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And what's the interview look like from there?

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Because there are a lot of ways to do interviews, some of them tricky, some of them clever, but I'd love to hear the Sheila Matthews approach.

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Yeah.

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So for me one, I want as many people to interview this person as reasonable, so that does not mean 6000 or six interviews, but you think about every.

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Every conversation should allow you to become more educated on the person you're considering.

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So what that looks like is even in the screening call, and a lot of candidates will be like, oh well, they're just the recruiter or they're just the screener, so I don't really have to worry about showing up for that.

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And that's a mistake, because even at that very first contact we are assessing and evaluating whether this person is a fit, whether they're professional, whether they showed up prepared or not.

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And that counts against a lot of people.

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When they show up in their workout clothes and they're like, uh, is it okay if I take this from my car?

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I'm coming from the gym?

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It's like, oh, oh, yeah, I, you know, like I, I thought you would have been a little more prepared, you know, um, but we're, we're looking for high level stuff during the screening call and really like, are they a match for the things that we said we had to have?

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And so there shouldn't be a laundry list of those things.

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If you use tools like 8020, like the Pareto tool.

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80% of someone's job can be boiled down into like four or five very key requirements, and so you got to figure out what those are and then check for that on their resume and during the screening call.

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If it's a yes and they don't seem correct you know unprofessional or some other thing that maybe would rub you the wrong way then you move them to the next call.

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I like to have a separate interview for technical versus culture, and those are two different people that are doing that.

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But at the beginning I'm explaining that to the candidate to say, listen, I want you to meet three different people in this company.

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You'll meet myself, the recruiter, the screener, whoever that person is.

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You will meet the hiring manager that's who usually does the technical interview.

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And then I want you to interview with someone else in the company during the step that we call the culture interview, where we will do our best to adequately and accurately represent ourselves so you know what it's like to work here.

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But then also we're going to be learning what you're looking for in a position and a job and even in a team in an environment, to see if this is a good fit, and we use our core values to help us determine that, so that it's not like, oh, she seemed fun, let's hire her.

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It's like did she give examples and did she demonstrate a natural alignment to the things that we have decided are important at our company?

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You know whether that is, you know, excellence over ego, or you know like, whatever your values are?

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And then the last piece that I would share in the technical interview, I'm kind of over star, I'll be honest, since you asked for the Sheila version, what I would prefer a hiring manager do during the technical interview is think about the problems that you want this person to solve in your business.

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Are you bringing them in to improve churn?

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Are you bringing them in to increase lead flow?

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What are you hiring them to primarily do?

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And then use those problems in your business as a basis for the interview questions.

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And so that might sound something.

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Like you know, right now my top of funnel is struggling.

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I'm running ads on these two platforms.

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My cost of acquisition is here, my CAC's this, my this is that, and I can tell something's wrong, but I don't have the expertise to figure out what that is.

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If you were just stepping into this business, where would you look for a second and third how would you help me solve this problem?

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Sheila.

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I love that.

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Real life question here in real time in our conversation today, especially because I so appreciate as well the fact that you called out the 80-20 principle.

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And I'm going to ask you to throw a little bit of shade here, sheila, because what I think something that I've come to value even more the older that I get, the more experience that I get, the more mature I get as an entrepreneur is that people like you experts in your field, subject matter experts you're really good at deciphering the stuff that matters versus the stuff that doesn't, and so when I was 20 years old and starting my first business and I was learning about marketing, everything mattered to me.

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I thought I had to be on every platform.

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I'm going to blame Gary Vee for all of that.

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I thought I had to be literally everywhere.

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But sure, the older I get, the more I realize, gosh, really, you could just be so good at so few things, and that's what makes all the difference.

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So the shade I'm going to ask you to throw is what are some of those things that companies typically think matter when it comes to hires and I'll throw my own personal bias in here of you know the, you need five to seven years of experience and you need a college degree and all of these things.

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That's just one example from my end.

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Sheila, give me your perspective there.

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Oh my gosh, it's absolutely thinking.

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You have to list every freaking feasible possible task.

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And you know what I like?

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I really can't stand these five page job descriptions or even three page job descriptions where we're trying to account for every little thing and then the hiring manager comes into this engagement with very unrealistic expectations, because now they expect that the recruiter is going to check for 30 different types of work and tasks and make sure this candidate has done every single one of them.

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And you know like it's, it's not realistic, it's not a good use of anyone's time.

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And then I would also submit you're not really setting the employee uh up, or the person that you're hiring up for a good experience, like who wants to take a job where they learn nothing new.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like, why would what's in it for you at that point?

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Yes, you're going to get paid, but part of part of the excitement and the kind of growth piece of taking on a new role is that there are unknown, unlearned pieces of that, and, and so that's that's kind of my way in on it um, the other piece I think is um and this is tough because again it is, it is a skill piece.

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But you know you, a lot of times sometimes hiring managers come into the process and they haven't really done the self-reflect, they have not really spent time and research to figure out the thing that they want and need, and that wastes a lot of time and a lot of candidate time when you're trying to find your perfect person.

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And so to me, like those are the two egregious things is that companies don't incentivize hiring managers to prepare to hire and then on the other side, you know like we're just throwing everything in the kitchen sink into the job description and it doesn't allow us to really pull and dig into the things that matter most.

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Yeah, sheila, I kind of want to flip this conversation on its head a little bit, because hearing you talk about these things you talk about, you know it's exciting to hire someone into a new role, not just because they're getting paid.

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That's one of the reasons, though.

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Of course, we all love getting paid, but I think that it calls out part of our obligation and our responsibilities on the hiring side, as business owners, as entrepreneurs, to also reflect on the fact that we need to provide value as well, beyond just the fact that we pay other people.

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And so I want to ask you this, because I obviously talk to a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners in my line of work, and I keep hearing this phrase.

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For the past two years, I've heard people say it's hard to find good help, and I'm really thrilled because some of the best members of my team have been coming on board in the past few years.

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So, sheila, what can we, as business owners, do to create a position where it's easy to find good help?

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I know that that statement is said with the best of intentions, but you know they are out there with the best of intentions, but you know they are out there.

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Oh my gosh, there are so many amazing people out there looking for their next opportunity.

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Um, but you have to show up prepared for it and then, um, I think I'll take this opportunity to just talk about a limiting belief that I've worked through with a lot of entrepreneurs about, which is like I don't offer benefits, I can't offer healthcare, therefore I can't find someone good, and so to me, that is between your ears, you know, like you're telling yourself that, and even if you don't have, maybe you don't offer group benefits.

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Yet that's actually not a big deal.

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You can offer a stipend or money towards someone purchasing their healthcare.

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You can offer a stipend or money towards someone purchasing their health care.

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So sometimes you just get creative about the things that you can offer in order to be more competitive.

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If you think that is a concern for you, but after hiring hundreds of people, probably actually thousands of people, I will tell you benefits matter, but culture matters more.

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You benefits matter, but culture matters more.

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The environment in which you allow someone to come in and play a part of in your business matters more than the extra spliffs and you know cash and prizes that you give them.

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You have to pay market.

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You know like to me, that is table stakes.

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You should be willing to pay at or above market if you want someone amazing because that's what they will get anywhere else.

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But really your differentiator and it's so much easier, by the way, for smaller businesses because you have less people to corral your differentiator is to create an amazing environment for them to come and be a part of.

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Lean into the growth aspect, lean into you know the scale, lean into all the things that you love about coming in every day and doing that, and those are the people that you want to attract into your business.

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If you're under 5 million right now.

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Yeah, sheila, I'll tell you what you just introduced, that big word that I promised at the top of today's episode of culture.

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We're going to talk about culture now, and I'm so excited for this part of the conversation because it's this huge, intangible thing, and I would argue that it's easy to see the extremes when we saw, I think back to the early two thousands, the, the heydays of the Googles of the world, where they had all these fun office environments that had never been seen anywhere in the workplace.

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They really revolutionized that side of it, and I'm not going to speak to their current status, because who knows what the status of all of those, but they did change the way that work is done in so many ways and that's why we saw the start in the rise of so many cool tech companies.

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But then also we can feel those bad environments.

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You know, we hear some of the horror stories of some delivery drivers for some big online e-tailers and they've got some ugly working conditions.

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So, sheila, with that in mind, what's culture?

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Because we know it when we see good or bad culture, but it's so hard to define and put our fingers on, especially as business owners of our own.

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We love our businesses.

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They're our babies.

00:19:05.686 --> 00:19:12.325
But what does that culture look like, what are the ingredients that play into it, and where does it manifest itself in our businesses?

00:19:13.125 --> 00:19:14.449
Yeah, that's a great question.

00:19:14.449 --> 00:19:21.971
You know, I always, when I first start having this conversation with entrepreneurs, I tell them that culture is the way people act.

00:19:21.971 --> 00:19:27.770
When you're not around, it seems like, well, wait a minute, I thought I drove culture.

00:19:27.770 --> 00:19:39.765
You do drive culture, but if you know, if it's only happening when you're there, you have to ask yourself is it because I'm creating a punishing environment and that's why people are doing it?

00:19:39.765 --> 00:19:43.200
How do they act when I, when I remove myself from the equation?

00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.865
And good behavior or bad behavior?

00:19:45.865 --> 00:19:53.231
That is the culture that is growing and taking place in your business, and so I like to give examples to help contextualize some of this.

00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:57.260
So, if you gossip with people in your business, I hate to.

00:19:57.260 --> 00:20:02.286
I'm gonna leave with a negative, sorry, but let's say that you like to gossip with other people in your company.

00:20:02.286 --> 00:20:05.690
Well, when you're not around, guess what's happening?

00:20:05.690 --> 00:20:09.248
Other people are gossiping, whether you think they should or not.

00:20:09.248 --> 00:20:17.113
You are leading with that example and you are setting the stage that that is an acceptable behavior in your company and that becomes part of the culture.

00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:21.810
And then sometimes I get questions like how do I turn that around if I've made mistakes?

00:20:21.810 --> 00:20:25.153
I mean, I'm human too, I'm still learning and growing and I'm like I get it.

00:20:25.153 --> 00:20:28.203
Then you have to address what you've done that was wrong.

00:20:28.203 --> 00:20:39.162
You have to commit to changing your own behavior and then explain that you would like everyone and you expect everyone to follow suit, and then you have to follow through on that.

00:20:39.162 --> 00:20:43.452
So it's like hey, I know I've gauged, I've engaged in harmful gossip before.

00:20:43.452 --> 00:20:44.982
I'm not proud of that.

00:20:44.982 --> 00:20:50.063
I'm also learning and growing, but I this isn't the, this isn't what I want for our business.

00:20:50.063 --> 00:20:59.424
I'm building this business so that all of us have an amazing place to work, and what I've realized is that behavior can't be a part of it if I really want people to feel safe and love being here.

00:20:59.424 --> 00:21:05.190
So I'm committing to all of you that I'm not going to do that anymore and I'm going to ask that you guys come along with me on that.

00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:14.859
Yeah, Sheila, I want to ask you this question because I think you have such a unique vantage point in what I'm going to ask you, and that is when you talk about companies of different sizes.

00:21:14.859 --> 00:21:21.008
And I love the fact that you interjected into the conversation about what if a culture is already established, how can we start switching that?

00:21:21.008 --> 00:21:26.063
I always I love that analogy of dropping food coloring into a swimming pool.

00:21:26.063 --> 00:21:30.890
You know, if we drop it into a glass of water, it's going to make a big difference to the color of our water.

00:21:30.890 --> 00:21:35.480
If we drop it into a swimming pool, it's going to take a lot of drops of water to make any sort of difference.

00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:36.864
And the same is true when it comes to culture.

00:21:36.904 --> 00:21:48.965
Is that at UPS, if UPS hired me today, sure, I can have a local difference on my immediate coworkers, but I'm not going to radically change as a new employee, I'm not going to radically change the culture of UPS.

00:21:48.965 --> 00:21:55.996
However, on the startup level which you're well versed there as well, you've worked in so many cool environments it does make a big difference.

00:21:55.996 --> 00:22:03.243
Every hire makes a massive difference.

00:22:03.243 --> 00:22:07.337
So my question to you really is at that smaller level, for the startups, for the rapidly growing companies, do we hire for culture?

00:22:07.337 --> 00:22:10.527
Do we let the hires help shape our culture?

00:22:10.527 --> 00:22:13.285
What's the chicken or the egg here, and how do we solve that?

00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:31.205
Yeah, I think that you're looking for your alignment to values first and foremost and that will ensure that they are a culture fit or it will help to ensure right, because I mean, at the end of the day, no one gets hiring right 100% of the time, even super seasoned people.

00:22:31.205 --> 00:22:34.162
So also, if you screw it up, let them go, forgive yourself.

00:22:34.162 --> 00:22:35.969
You know, learn from it and move on.

00:22:35.969 --> 00:22:40.612
But you really want to ask yourself what are my company's values?

00:22:40.612 --> 00:22:49.501
If you don't have values, you should think about having some like what are the things that guide the company's behavior when you're not there?

00:22:49.501 --> 00:22:51.166
Those are your values.

00:22:51.166 --> 00:22:53.801
I like three, you know three or four.

00:22:53.801 --> 00:22:54.865
You don't need 20.

00:22:54.865 --> 00:23:01.991
You know no one's going to remember those and I like to make them fun and use alliteration so that they're easy to remember.

00:23:01.991 --> 00:23:06.807
Like you know, a couple of the values that I run my company with is make that mess your masterpiece.

00:23:06.807 --> 00:23:08.371
Excellence over ego.

00:23:08.371 --> 00:23:13.503
You know they're kind of catchy and I can easily explain what they mean to someone if they're not sure.

00:23:14.366 --> 00:23:26.782
And from there, during the culture interview, when I am hiring someone, I'm asking like does this person have a mindset and a natural proclivity to be continuously better?

00:23:26.782 --> 00:23:34.954
Will they take ownership of something if no one else is taking ownership of it in order to move the work forward and to improve it.

00:23:34.954 --> 00:23:38.349
Will this person be coachable?

00:23:38.349 --> 00:23:41.084
Do I if they make a mistake?

00:23:41.084 --> 00:23:41.645
Are they?

00:23:41.645 --> 00:23:44.392
Will we all be walking on eggshells?

00:23:44.392 --> 00:23:46.587
Will we be able to talk about it productively?

00:23:46.587 --> 00:23:49.220
Can this person grow from that experience?

00:23:49.220 --> 00:23:55.568
And so, when you're getting those things right, then you have less to worry about.

00:23:55.660 --> 00:24:00.209
But you know, culture is like a plant If you don't water it it'll die, you know.

00:24:00.209 --> 00:24:12.348
So, even though you may get it right during the interview, then you have to continually do things to reinforce and encourage those behaviors, to ensure that each person does positively impact the culture.

00:24:12.348 --> 00:24:17.728
And here's the thing If somebody doesn't, then it's really.

00:24:17.728 --> 00:24:25.990
You get to align the problem back to the value and say, hey, you know, one of our values here is excellence over ego.

00:24:25.990 --> 00:24:36.769
And I felt last week in that meeting you got a little defensive and it kind of shut down the conversation so that we could figure out how to fix the issue that happened and move it forward.

00:24:36.769 --> 00:24:38.032
What do you think?

00:24:38.032 --> 00:24:44.643
And so it's being able to take the things that you said were really important, but then hold people accountable to those.

00:24:44.643 --> 00:24:53.382
And if they're not a culture fit because they're not aligning to the values, then that's the grounds that you would use to then remove that person from the team.

00:24:54.042 --> 00:24:58.112
Yes, sheila, I'm loving these insights from you here today.

00:24:58.112 --> 00:25:05.787
I want to go down that path because it is a sensitive topic about what happens when we don't get it right, and even on the positive side of that is that we.

00:25:05.787 --> 00:25:14.251
It's not only a sensitive topic with regards sometimes we have to let people go, but it also points out that we have an obligation to keep that goodness and that culture rolling.

00:25:14.251 --> 00:25:17.165
And so, along those lines, what does that look like?

00:25:17.165 --> 00:25:20.159
Once we've onboarded someone, how do we create the culture?

00:25:20.159 --> 00:25:37.441
Because I've been in all of my college internships, I've been the part of quite a few companies that try to do that, and they do it through, you know, repeating mantras and phrases that all of us employees and interns were sitting there going gosh, we really have to do this again.

00:25:37.441 --> 00:25:38.041
So, sheila, what's the real way?

00:25:38.041 --> 00:25:38.442
What's the?

00:25:38.462 --> 00:25:39.163
good way to do these things.

00:25:39.163 --> 00:25:56.284
I'm not laughing at you, I promise, but I have also been subjugated or subjected to those things that it's so uncomfortable especially when you're new right so to me, especially when you're new right so to me in a small, growing business there are.

00:25:56.284 --> 00:26:03.285
There are two aspects to me that grow culture most, and one is just good, old-fashioned communication.

00:26:03.285 --> 00:26:16.503
I mean, I know it sounds like, but if you have regular all team meetings, so this is everybody on the team, I don't care if there are three people on the team or in the company, bring them together.

00:26:16.503 --> 00:26:30.692
Use that opportunity to talk about why do we exist, why is this company in business, what is our big picture, ultimate goal Every week, every two weeks, you should be reinforcing why are we all here together?

00:26:30.692 --> 00:26:34.493
What is our common ground, what are we working for and how is it going?

00:26:34.493 --> 00:26:40.237
You should be doing shout outs and recognition on those calls and they're consistent.

00:26:40.237 --> 00:26:42.397
These are the calls that never get canceled.

00:26:42.397 --> 00:26:47.083
They don't get bumped because we don't have something new to say.

00:26:47.083 --> 00:26:57.977
It's actually the point is to repeat yourself every week on these calls like mission, vision, strategy, values, shout outs and recognition, quick update if I have, a quick update, but if not, it's not a big deal.

00:26:57.977 --> 00:26:59.080
We wrap the call early.

00:26:59.923 --> 00:27:00.964
You should be training.

00:27:00.964 --> 00:27:05.040
If your company is a little bit bigger, you have managers who have teams.

00:27:05.040 --> 00:27:09.190
You should be training the managers how to run one on one-one meetings.

00:27:09.190 --> 00:27:14.362
You should be teaching people how to talk about the company values.

00:27:14.362 --> 00:27:19.993
How do they integrate the values discussion in their day-to-day work with their teams.

00:27:19.993 --> 00:27:23.911
All of these things are touch points that matter.

00:27:23.911 --> 00:27:30.526
And then the other big piece to communication is that as the owner, you should be checking in with everyone.

00:27:31.448 --> 00:27:41.007
I can't tell you how much it means to a new person when somewhere in the first week you know they're in, they've got, of course, they've got onboarding activities, they've got all this training going on.

00:27:41.007 --> 00:27:45.435
But somebody just kind of pops up and says hey, I know it's your first week.

00:27:45.435 --> 00:27:48.729
It's been a couple of days, I just wanted to check in and see how things are going.

00:27:48.729 --> 00:27:53.594
And then you know like I use a sauna for stuff like that or Trello is.

00:27:53.594 --> 00:27:55.316
You know like those are my secret weapons.

00:27:55.316 --> 00:27:59.568
When it comes to checking in, I have a task for everybody on the team.

00:27:59.568 --> 00:28:08.785
Every month or so, I change the date and so that way I can ensure that I'm taking that five to seven minutes to just check in, not like what are you working on?

00:28:08.785 --> 00:28:11.642
This is not a work call, make no mistake.

00:28:11.642 --> 00:28:17.417
Like I'm coming from, working is like, essentially, the water cooler check-in.

00:28:17.417 --> 00:28:28.388
You know, like I would have not run into this person in a break room because we don't have one in a remote world, but I'm just sending them a quick note to say "'Hey, I'm thinking of you "'I know, last time I checked in, "'your mom wasn't feeling good.

00:28:28.388 --> 00:28:29.253
"'is she feeling better?

00:28:29.253 --> 00:28:30.334
"'how's your dog''.

00:28:30.334 --> 00:28:35.836
You know, like it's just these quick little, like we're human touch points that make a difference.

00:28:36.017 --> 00:28:41.924
And then the other big thing, aside from communication and it is a form of communication is recognition.

00:28:41.924 --> 00:28:45.449
Say thank you, recognize people.

00:28:45.449 --> 00:28:48.136
It doesn't have to be something big.

00:28:48.136 --> 00:28:55.085
I think most of us think well, I mean, that seems like such a silly thing to recognize someone for, but do it?

00:28:55.085 --> 00:28:57.271
Find the good thing that someone did.

00:28:57.271 --> 00:29:03.564
And then you start building this culture to invite everyone else to give recognition to other people.

00:29:03.564 --> 00:29:13.964
And to me, if you can start with recognition and start with consistent communication, you're like 80 percent ahead of 80 percent ahead of everybody else.

00:29:13.964 --> 00:29:21.403
The other piece, though, is to reinforce what you say you're going to do and do it, so you do let the team down.

00:29:21.403 --> 00:29:31.259
If you are letting people stay on the team who aren't a values fit and who aren't a fit with the business or who aren't doing their jobs, you're not helping anyone.

00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:33.523
It creates this environment.

00:29:33.523 --> 00:29:34.872
Well, that must be okay.

00:29:34.872 --> 00:29:41.765
If it's not okay, you have to do the hard thing and talk about it with them, address it, and if it doesn't change, then you have to exit that person.

00:29:42.750 --> 00:30:28.855
Yeah, sheila, I love these real life insights, the fact that you called out the proverbial water cooler that's something that all of our businesses were really looking for in this remote world, and so I know that you've operated in these environments, and even with your own business no-transcript, with all of these big companies doing their return to office initiatives, and I think it's trash.

00:30:29.290 --> 00:30:43.396
You know like we don't teach managers to manage, so when we move remote, we also don't teach them how to manage differently, because we really never taught them to manage to begin with, and so maybe they're not getting the results or the things that they want.

00:30:43.396 --> 00:30:45.082
But shame on the company that's on them.

00:30:45.082 --> 00:30:46.011
You know like.

00:30:46.011 --> 00:30:58.211
So for growing businesses, remote businesses, if you're never planning on having an office, you know you, it's the same, you're doing the same things, it just expresses differently on a remote team.

00:30:58.551 --> 00:31:02.438
Now this one's going to be unpopular, I'm going to say it anyway.

00:31:02.438 --> 00:31:07.005
I say in a remote business that for certain meetings cameras are on.

00:31:07.005 --> 00:31:21.863
It doesn't mean they're on for every single meeting or call ever, but if I'm investing the time and money to pull the entire company together for that full team meeting or that all hands meeting, I want to see everybody.

00:31:21.863 --> 00:31:24.756
I want to see people for that 30 minutes.

00:31:24.756 --> 00:31:27.000
I want to see how I want to see them.

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:28.813
You know like I want the cameras on.

00:31:28.813 --> 00:31:35.917
People are more engaged at that point and you get more participation when you can see them and you can and they can see you.

00:31:35.917 --> 00:31:41.490
So to me, like that is an unpopular one or a controversial one, but it's an important one for me.

00:31:41.490 --> 00:31:44.977
I also say make time for fun.

00:31:44.977 --> 00:31:47.701
So this is the biggest piece.

00:31:47.701 --> 00:31:58.655
I think that can one get done incorrectly, but then two just doesn't get done at all, and so what that looks like is a lot of us now do everything on our computer.

00:31:59.218 --> 00:32:06.721
We're not as social in other areas of life, and so people want to get to know their coworkers, they want to be able to socialize.

00:32:06.721 --> 00:32:08.173
You don't force it, though.

00:32:08.173 --> 00:32:25.337
This is not the mandated fun committee of you know the old days, but it's like, hey, if anybody wants to do this, we're thinking about planning an employee trivia night on zoom and it'll be on this date at this time and it's completely voluntary, you don't have to do it if you're busy or you don't want to, but if you'd like to, you know, feel free to join.

00:32:25.337 --> 00:32:29.711
We used to use the whiteboard and like have drawing contests in zoom.

00:32:29.711 --> 00:32:30.493
I mean, like it's.

00:32:30.493 --> 00:32:32.890
It's silly, you know, but it was really.

00:32:32.890 --> 00:32:40.743
It's less about the activity and more about getting all of us together where, in a environment where we can kind of laugh and joke with one another.

00:32:42.170 --> 00:32:51.441
I would also recommend, if you're small, just block out co-working time, so that is where anybody and everybody can join in.

00:32:51.441 --> 00:33:04.857
You can have your camera on or off and you just sort of silently work together on the thing, work on something that you're doing, and then I usually reserve the last 15 minutes that if somebody wants to share what they've been working on, you know, they can talk to the rest of the group about it.

00:33:04.857 --> 00:33:07.438
Engineering teams, coding teams do this.

00:33:07.438 --> 00:33:13.338
It's been super productive and helpful, and so I think, like entrepreneurs can do this too.

00:33:13.338 --> 00:33:24.595
Small companies can be lonely and so it's nice to just create these casual times where people can come together and just have company.

00:33:24.595 --> 00:33:26.582
You'd be surprised it takes off.

00:33:27.203 --> 00:33:28.388
Yeah, sheila, I love that.

00:33:28.388 --> 00:33:32.662
I'm definitely going to implement some of these behind the scenes here at the entrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast.

00:33:32.662 --> 00:33:37.570
So I appreciate these real life insights and you're giving us actual strategies that we can implement.

00:33:37.570 --> 00:33:53.792
So it's going to be hard to top all of the great things that you've shared with us here in today's episode, but I always love asking this question at the end, because you're such a wealth of knowledge and you can answer this question as the subject matter expert that you are, or as a fellow entrepreneur, because I'm going to toot your horn for Culture Pro in just a few minutes.

00:33:53.792 --> 00:33:56.936
But before we get there, what's that one piece of advice?

00:33:56.936 --> 00:34:07.340
Knowing that we're being listened to by entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs all over the world at all different stages of their own growth journeys, what's that one thing that you want to impart on all of our listeners here today?

00:34:08.271 --> 00:34:08.835
Oh my gosh.

00:34:08.835 --> 00:34:11.117
You know, take the risk.

00:34:11.117 --> 00:34:25.534
I know that sounds crazy, but a lot of people that I talk to are really asking me for reassurance a lot of times, and I'll I'll give you the advice that I have to constantly remind myself of is just try it.

00:34:25.534 --> 00:34:27.679
You know, just try it, you.

00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:32.411
You don't need to spend hundreds of 1000s of dollars on the perfect person.

00:34:32.411 --> 00:34:38.074
You know, try just running the comps and, you know, picking a number in the middle.

00:34:38.074 --> 00:34:44.722
If you don't know what to pay, someone ask them hey, what would you like to make to feel really engaged and be excited to work here?

00:34:44.722 --> 00:34:50.380
You know, like, just ask around, get that knowledge and then just take the chance.

00:34:50.380 --> 00:34:54.436
If it's wrong, you will learn an incredible amount from that experience.

00:34:54.436 --> 00:34:58.233
And if it's right, then you know you've just built your confidence up some.

00:34:59.237 --> 00:35:10.030
Yeah, sheila, I love that advice, and especially because it fits right in with some of the things that I want to publicly very much praise you for, and that is layered beneath so much of what we talked about today.

00:35:10.030 --> 00:35:35.791
What makes you different in so many ways, and why we've been so excited to have you on the show, sheila, is that I know that you have such a fundamental understanding of business, of the life of an entrepreneur, because, like I've said a few times, you are one of us, and so what I really admire not only about the way that you show up and the value and the experiences that you have is how you bring this stuff to the world and what you're doing with your own company, culture Pro, which you're going to drop that link for listeners in just a second.

00:35:35.791 --> 00:35:38.315
It's incredible to me even the way you show up.

00:35:38.315 --> 00:35:41.900
I always say that success leaves clues and your website, sheila.

00:35:41.981 --> 00:35:57.179
What we didn't talk about today is branding and messaging and copy, but you're a master of all of those things as well, and I'm going to chalk some of it up to the fact that you've worked with incredible companies, you've been a part of incredible teams and obviously you're super brilliant in all of your own ways as well.

00:35:57.179 --> 00:36:06.396
So I love all the stuff that you're doing and, with that said, you've got to drop those links for listeners who want to learn more about you and see the way that you're practicing what you preach and growing your own business.

00:36:06.396 --> 00:36:07.755
Where should they go from here?

00:36:08.851 --> 00:36:10.938
Well, you know, you can always find me on LinkedIn.

00:36:10.938 --> 00:36:14.438
I know that sounds crazy, but I am very active on LinkedIn.

00:36:14.438 --> 00:36:19.358
I love the community, and then my own website is cultureproco.

00:36:19.358 --> 00:36:28.733
So, by all means, come out, leave me a message, drop me a note.

00:36:28.733 --> 00:36:32.644
I love meeting people, so I'm not a big pitch person, even though I've worked for some very notable pitch people in business.

00:36:32.644 --> 00:36:36.739
I am more of a relationships person and I would love to take a call with people and get to know them.

00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.175
So yes, listeners, you heard that link right there from Sheila.

00:36:40.175 --> 00:36:42.780
It's cultureproco, super easy to find.

00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:46.922
We're also dropping it down below in the show notes, as well as a link to Sheila's personal LinkedIn.

00:36:46.922 --> 00:36:52.791
If you want to reach out I'm also going to plug this, sheila, because you didn't is that you also have a free guide and a free resource on your website.

00:36:52.791 --> 00:37:01.914
So, listeners, if you want to continue your journey into all of the wisdom and insights that you can pick up from Sheila even before you start working with her, definitely check out that link.

00:37:01.914 --> 00:37:03.677
Just click right on through from the show notes.

00:37:03.677 --> 00:37:04.634
It's cultureproco.

00:37:04.634 --> 00:37:09.016
No matter where it is that you're tuning into today's episode, you'll find that link down below.

00:37:09.016 --> 00:37:14.596
So, sheila, on behalf of myself and all of our listeners worldwide, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

00:37:14.596 --> 00:37:25.101
Thanks, brian hey, it's Brian here and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:37:25.101 --> 00:37:26.809
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:37:26.809 --> 00:37:33.297
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom.

00:37:33.690 --> 00:37:36.079
And I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:44.860
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:37:44.860 --> 00:37:46.913
These are not sponsored episodes.

00:37:46.913 --> 00:37:48.516
These are not infomercials.

00:37:48.516 --> 00:37:52.010
Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.

00:37:52.010 --> 00:38:02.954
They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.

00:38:02.954 --> 00:38:11.449
So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.

00:38:11.449 --> 00:38:12.793
We also have live chat.

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If you want to interact directly with me, go to thewantrepreneurshowcom.

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Initiate a live chat.

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It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always, every Monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and Sunday here on the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

1026: Building THRIVING workplace cultures and ATTRACTING the RIGHT talent w/ Shelia Matthews

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