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Hey, what is up?
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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.
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As always, I'm your host, brian Lofermento, and I'm so excited about today's guest and today's entrepreneur because this is someone that as soon as our team came across her work, we realized she is so aligned with one of our core values here at the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast, because we believe that a rising tide lifts all boats, and today's entrepreneur actually Rise is in the title of her company.
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Her company is called People Rise and the headline on her website, as soon as we saw it, we knew we had to invite her on the show.
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It says Helping your People Rise to Real Business Challenges.
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So let me tell you all about today's guest.
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Her name is Susan Mahaffey.
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She's the founder and president of People Rise LLC, which is a consulting firm specializing in HR solutions and executive leadership coaching, with over 20 years of experience in HR and leadership.
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Susan has a distinguished career as an HR executive and strategic advisor.
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She holds a master's degree in global business and organizational leadership and a bachelor's in management with a focus on human resources management, along with multiple certifications in leadership in HR.
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So it's pretty clear she loves people and she loves helping people flourish and succeed.
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Her professional journey includes significant roles at multinational corporations like Mars Incorporated, where she honed her expertise in global HR dynamics.
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In 2022, she launched PeopleRise to empower organizations by placing people at the heart of their strategies.
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There's so much that we're going to learn from her today, so I'm not going to say anything else.
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Let's dive straight into my interview with Susan Mahaffey.
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All right, susan, I'm so excited to have you here with us today.
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First things first.
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Welcome to the show, thank you excited to be here.
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Heck, yes, you obviously have so much experience doing such cool work.
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I'm excited to dive into all that today, but before we get there, take us beyond the bio.
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Who's Susan?
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How'd you start doing all these cool things?
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Awesome thanks, brian.
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So a little bit about me.
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In that case.
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I started my feet getting wet in HR through a summer job.
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My dad knew that I like talking to people, I like organizing things, so he got me a job working part time during like my junior year of high school and that was kind of my first foray into HR and I just really I really liked it and then that kind of turned into a summer job again senior year.
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And then when I got to college and I needed to work because I worked full-time while going to college I was like, well, the only skills I really have are in HR, and so that really kind of put off a light bulb for me that said, this is what I love to do, this is what comes naturally and kind of.
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The rest, I guess, is history.
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Yeah, Susan, I love that overview because even in your bio you know HR comes up so many times.
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But I will say, as an outsider, looking in at your work and your business, it seems to go far beyond HR.
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And there's something that you wrote in your messaging I love the term people leadership and to me that encompasses probably HR, would lump into that, A lot of things would lump into that.
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A lot of things would lump into that.
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So I want to ask you at that really high level, when you think about your field and all of the things that you do with people rise, what does that encompass?
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Yeah, I think you make one really important point, brian, that is, I use the term HR and you know human resources because it's what people know, but the reality is human resources, I think, is kind of a term of the past and really we are focused around people and people leadership, and that's really where my focus in my business is about right.
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So people are at the center of your business.
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They're at the center of everything that we do in life, right and from there, I think this is where all things, where the magic happens.
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So in PeopleRise I have a couple of key things that I focus on.
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One of my kind of core signature offerings is something called an organizational assessment, for example, and the way I describe that is everybody usually, if you could think of, needs to go to the doctor, like, let's say, once a year, and get a wellness check.
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Well, organizations need need that too, and I like to do that from a people standpoint because it's a really good practice to understand, you know, what's the health of your organization, what are your people feeling, how are they doing, and it doesn't mean that there has to be something wrong, but you know we also need to strive for kind of understanding what's going well, what's not, what do we want improve upon?
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And so that's one of the things that the majority of my folks will come to me with something that they're not really sure what to do or where to go, or there are different stages in their business and they're like Susan, here's what I've got, and help me, and so that's usually where I'm trying to parse out and untangle whatever is happening in their organization and figuring out a path and a plan.
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So that's one of the key things we do, brian, and then kind of the things lead from there.
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We also do executive recruitment, which is not something I had planned to do, but building on organizational assessments, when you get to know your clients really well and they trust you.
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That is a key, you know, just a key component of saying saying, hey, you've helped us realize the things we need to work on.
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Can you help us find the people that are going to continue to take our business in the next direction, that are going to elevate the things that we've also recognized?
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So that wasn't something I got into, but I absolutely love it.
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I feel like it's being a matchmaker in in the, you know, with people and their organizations and a few other things that we do, as I do executive leadership coaching and I primarily focus on small to mid-size family-owned businesses and entrepreneurs, and I have really enjoyed working with that group.
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Small business owners essentially are my ideal client and a few other things we'll do.
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We we'll do hourly advisory, we'll do project work, we'll do anything from employee surveys to just kind of round tables, and I have a partnership.
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Last thing I'll mention is I have a partnership with the Center for Creative Leadership, also known as CCL, and I'm a graduate of many of their programs and their work resonates with me a ton around leadership principles, and so I feel that they do what they do best, which is come up with world-class training programs, and then I get to be the facilitator.
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So they're the cake, I'm the icing and I bring it to your organization.
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Susan, I love me a good analogy and you're dropping quite a few on us here today and I want to start with the fact that I love the likening of the annual physical exam.
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It's something that we all do, and what I think is an important distinction that you called out there is that we do our annual physical exam not necessarily when something's wrong.
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We do it because we don't know what's going on inside of our blood, inside of our heart, inside of our body, and we need an expert to look into those things and actually assess that.
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So, susan, with that hat on, I'd love to hear some of the things that, when you walk into a company or when you're working with someone new, what are those areas that you assess?
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Great question.
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I just am starting a new endeavor with a new client right now, actually, and so this is really top of mind.
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I mean, I think there's a couple parts, brian.
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Right, the first thing is usually there's something that has happened that has led us to this point.
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For example, perhaps your people function sat with an administrative person, maybe it sat in finance, maybe you haven't really had anything and you're trying to figure it out.
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So usually my first question is around okay, tell me more about how you got here.
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You know what does that journey to here look like?
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So now, like you asking me, you know what, what is that, what?
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How did you get here?
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So that's the first component, and then we start to just, you know, pretty much peel the onion back around.
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What are the things that are top of mind?
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What keeps you up at night?
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What are are you worried about?
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What do you think if you were to wave a magic wand, what would you do?
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What if money was no option?
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You're trying to ask really powerful questions to understand and kind of find the direction in which maybe your client doesn't even know that they want to or need to go.
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It's just trying to get a sense, for where are they at this moment?
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And from there I can kind of pick a couple different directions to go in.
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One thing might be around perhaps we need to really understand some of our leadership.
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Perhaps we have leaders that have way too many people reporting to them and no one's getting anything of what they need.
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Maybe we have struggles with reporting structure.
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Maybe we have challenges with work you know work shifts, I mean.
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It could be any array of things that you can think about, but the most important piece here is we want people to feel comfortable, we want people to provide their thoughts and suggestions and we really want to make sure that this process is around kind of being narrow in scope in one sense, because we're focusing on the people element, but we want to be broad in saying what are the things that are top of mind for you all, right, employees, business owners, etc.
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And that's usually where we go into.
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One final thing I'll add to that is probably also that there are challenges in our workplace today that people have not encountered before.
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We've got five generations in the workforce.
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We're still kind of in this readjustment period after COVID and returning to work.
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I mean you're seeing tons of press about returning to work.
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I mean, you're seeing those big companies make mandates.
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You know there's a lot of school of thoughts.
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There's some people who have been working nonstop and never had a work from home arrangement, so there's a lot of different things brewing and I would be remiss to say that also, we are in a time where people bring their whole selves to work.
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It used to be kind of like in our parents' generation.
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Generation was like we didn't talk about money, we didn't talk about family.
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You know maybe a little, but you know there was things that were politics, they were off limits.
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Now people are very open.
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They don't want to feel isolated and they really want to feel like, um, you know they're not alone.
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And so my job is to really see what can we bring to the forefront, and then how do we come up with some solutions, and so that can take any type of form.
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Yeah, susan, I love that answer.
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It sounds like you actually have a really interesting and fun job, because you're working with the coolest thing in the world, which is, of course, people, and I really appreciate the fact that, as you said, you're peeling back the onion, and part of what I really hear and it's because I'm biased as a podcast host is the power of questions.
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Obviously, questions really dictate the value in the content of the answers that we're going to get.
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I always think about.
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One of my favorite concepts in business is that Henry Ford quote where he once said that if I asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.
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And it's because people can feel their pain, but they don't necessarily always see the solution, especially when we're stuck inside the jar.
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It's hard to read the label from inside the jar, and so, susan, I want to ask you this question of how do you create that environment?
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Is it the types of questions you ask?
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Is it the energy that you're bringing to these engagements?
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How do you solicit the right types of answers and input from the people that you're interacting with?
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Oh, I love that question.
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So, Brian, I think one of the things that has served me really well and maybe not just zone of genius, but maybe my superpower I would describe it as being approachable, being authentic.
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I think that could be an overused word, but I think what people want is connection.
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And so you know my story about humble beginnings.
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I have parents who came from Hungary and sought a better life here in the US, and through hard work, you know, we're able to build a life for my sister and I, and I saw just some great examples and have been able to meet amazing people along the way.
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And, I think, because I have had the opportunity to also face a lot of struggles and hardships and, you know, resilience is, I think, a component.
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You know, I mentioned it earlier too, and something else I had written that I had shared with you beforehand.
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Right is, I have many different roles, right?
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Mom, sister, you know, you know caretaker, etc.
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And I think all of those roles personally also allow me professionally to connect with people, and one of the things you have to be careful about when you work in a role like HR or coaching, right is, it's not about me, it's about you, but people want to feel a level of connectedness, and so you know, everything from making people feel warm, making people feel like they're being heard and listened to, sharing back.
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You know, it's kind of like there's active listening right where people you're listening to them more than you're talking, kind of the 8020 rule, and then there's also this, this component around really listening and sharing back.
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You know, what did you hear them say, Kind of like a clarification?
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You know, and I just think that that has been something that's worked really well for me along the way and people remember how you make them feel.
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In tough conversations In particular, I've had to deliver many, but I've also been able to provide great news and also help develop people, and so people recognize what your kind of consistency, or lack thereof, is.
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And when you're in a role like HR and in leadership, when you make it to where I've been in the past too, people are always watching you and you have to be a role model.
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It doesn't mean I always get it right, but it means that I'm not afraid to take ownership and that I'm also unafraid to apologize or to say I could have done that differently, and solicit feedback from others and get their thoughts, and when people can share with you, they're much more apt to make it a two-way, and so I think that's really what's stood out to me over the years.
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Yeah, susan, I'm going to call this out publicly because I so value and appreciate this about you personally in the work that you do is that you don't shy away from those labels, and I'm going to call this out is that the reason why I think you're able to use those is because you look for the lessons from those different identities that you have in the different hats that you wear, because a lot of people have all of these labels.
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You know, you're a mom, you're a daughter, you're a wife, you're a sister, a caregiver, a friend, a confidant, you're all of these things but you don't just fulfill those roles.
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You actually look for the lessons inside of them and even beyond that.
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I feel like traditionally in the world of HR, we try to keep a professional face and we try to put those labels to the side, whereas it feels like you embrace those.
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Talk to us about that different approach, because it's so clear that you're wearing those labels on your sleeves.
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You're doing it here in this episode today, and I'd love to hear how it manifests in your work to give you some of those more additional insights.
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Yeah.
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So, brian, I'm going to share some real raw examples, for because one of the learnings I had is that, again, when you can be unafraid and vulnerable to share your own experiences, remember, you know, people see you one way, right, we all have our own internal biases, we're humans, right?
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But on the other hand, you know, people will only see me like you know, they'll hear me on this podcast or they see a picture of me.
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People will make assumptions, but they don't always know what's behind it and there's a very clear example that comes to me.
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And so, during COVID, for example, during the pandemic let's just take us back to March 2020.
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I was going through a very hard time personally, and this was also at the time where things were shutting down.
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My work traveled extensively internationally.
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Where things were shutting down, my work traveled, traveled extensively internationally.
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That was shutting down, and I thought, oh, this is gonna be a welcome break.
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I could use a minute to not be on the road, on an airplane and going in different time zones and such.
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And also I had a five year old at the time and that turned into me teaching my kindergartner home, you know, teaching him from home, while I'm trying to do work on multiple time zones and such.
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And the reality was, brian, I became very overwhelmed and HR folks, during the pandemic, we were thrust into the same storm, but we were all in different boats, right.
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So, you know, we're trying to not only manage our families and our situations, but then we're also trying to help our workforces and our workplaces.
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Hr folks we became kind of the leaders of what do we do, oh my gosh.
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And so there was a lot of respect gained, I think, for those in the people function.
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But what happened is we also and I did, you know, when you're accustomed to being a giver, you also sometimes don't know where to stop.
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And so I was recognizing that I was doing everything I could and working really late and just at, you know, I was burning it at both ends, right.
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And I got to a point where I just I maxed out and I completely had this almost, like you know, crisis moment of oh my gosh, what is going on in my life?
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This is, this is so overwhelming and what that.
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What that ended up doing right is I had to take a step back.
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I had to step away from a long decade plus ish, 15 years, ish type of career where I hadn't taken a break.
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I had just always gone from one role to the next, just kept climbing and kept going.
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And one of my friends said you know, you haven't stopped, susan.
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And I was like, wow, you're right.
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And so that I was taking the approach of wow, it's me, I'm an employee too.
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I'm a person.
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I'm not just an HR, you know, or people leader or somebody who others look up to, but now it's me who needs the help, it's me who needs to figure out what do I need to do?
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And when I came back, I had to take some time for me and get my you know self in order.
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And again, personally I was.
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I was dealing with, you know, the end of my you know my marriage and dealing with my son and I.
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You know it's hard times.
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And I thought I specifically remember thinking to myself I'm like this is one more thing I can add to my list.
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It's funny, but not funny.
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But when you understand the pains and difficulties that people have to try to keep it together, like you learn so much about that, you can bring that with you.
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And when I came back, I also advocated to my employer about more mental health benefits and I lived the system myself too.
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I knew what was broken in the system.
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I knew, you know, we weren't able to get care for people quickly.
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Also during the pandemic.
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It was hard but I share that story to say I was very open, I was very vulnerable about sharing that.
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You know I had hit my limits and you know this is something we have to take serious.
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And also I decided that you know I could stay quiet and kind of.
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You know this is something we have to take serious.
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And also I decided that you know I could stay quiet and kind of, you know, act like nothing happened or such.
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But there's so many people that and I'm glad that in the world today we can be more open about it.
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But it was a long way to get here and so I try to use those personal experience of my own that are not, you know, nobody wants to kind of share that the bad stuff.
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But for me that's where the learnings are and it reminds me of a book Daniel Pink wrote about.
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You know, about regret and that it's okay to have regret because regret propels you forward, like you have to look backwards in order to learn to move forward, and I think that's a concept for me that has been so powerful.
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And ever since that time and here we are, you know what?
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Four or five years later, I continue to take those experiences with me.
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And you know, when I'm sharing and talking with others and I can relate, people feel again that connectedness with you.
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And it doesn't mean I always have to share about me but saying, hey, I hear you, I know what you mean.
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People can tell if you're just telling them that or you really you've been there.
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Yeah, susan, I love that answer and I so appreciate that.
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Authenticity and vulnerability You're right, those are words we throw around so frequently, especially in the world of entrepreneurship and branding and all of these other areas, but it's real, like it shows up in that stuff, and that's why, ever since I started this podcast way back in 2016, I committed to myself back then of I want to share these real entrepreneurial stories and seeing how it shows up in your work as well, that's the value add and that's why, in a world where there's so many people who do HR and people leadership, I know that that's one of your unique differentiators, susan.
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Even hearing you tell those stories it takes me back.
00:20:00.163 --> 00:20:03.650
One of the most valuable lessons that I learned in life was in 2019.
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I was so frustrated at this time so I just bought a Tesla.
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It was my first electric car and I was going on a road trip with my girlfriend at the time and we were going from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, and so I'm type A, and so I was like, come on, let's get ready, get ready, get all your stuff.
00:20:18.104 --> 00:20:20.028
Like, let's go, we're going to be in Vegas in four hours.
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This is going to be amazing, but my car didn't have battery, susan, and so we had to drive to the nearest Tesla supercharger, and it's Los Angeles.
00:20:26.635 --> 00:20:27.896
Everybody has a Tesla.
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So there was a long line to charge and my girlfriend at the time she said to me she's like, you made me get ready for what?
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And I said this jokingly, susan, but it turned into a life lesson for me.
00:20:38.788 --> 00:20:45.721
I said you got to be ready, you got to be ready to go fast, but you also got to be ready to go slow because we had to sit there for an hour and wait for a charger.
00:20:45.721 --> 00:20:50.782
And it's something that shows up in your work and hearing your stories that you're sharing with us today.
00:20:50.782 --> 00:21:08.519
It doesn't surprise me that in your work with leaders even if we branch into your executive work you wrote about going slow to go fast, and I feel like it's these counterintuitive lessons that we learn through some of the hard times, through the good things, that really differentiate us and give us that perspective.
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:15.621
Talk to us about going slow to go fast, because none of us want that, but it's an inevitability in life and business.
00:21:15.621 --> 00:21:17.103
So I'd love to hear those insights.
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It's a great.
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I love that.
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That Tesla story I can.
00:21:21.829 --> 00:21:24.325
I can relate, you know.
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So, yeah, I would say this, brian I encounter a lot of leaders, especially in the small business, small to midsize business space, which is where I, where I am, where I will encounter leaders who are super impatient.
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They want things done yesterday.
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They're frustrated when they're.
00:21:41.287 --> 00:21:58.086
You know, it's kind of like I don't know, this is an old, old TV show like the whammy, like it would just like pop up and you know you're like, ah, you know it was like anytime something pops up for these, these leaders, they're totally out of sorts and I've also interviewed many people in the past where I'm looking for that.
00:21:58.086 --> 00:22:10.556
You know, if I see that you're looking to go for a senior position, and you know you're thrown off kilter because your interview schedule got changed around, I'm like, hmm, okay, you know what's let's.
00:22:10.556 --> 00:22:12.444
You know this is a pretty high-level role.
00:22:12.444 --> 00:22:22.557
I've got some questions and this, not to say, people can't work on those things but kind of need to know what are your strengths and what are your opportunities, right, and how are you actively working on them.
00:22:22.557 --> 00:22:28.374
I've got leaders who I'm constantly I had this yesterday I'm trying to slow them down right because they are trying to do great things perhaps too.
00:22:28.374 --> 00:22:29.295
On the other hand, I love that like they're really I had this yesterday.
00:22:29.295 --> 00:22:31.578
I'm trying to slow them down right, because they are trying to do great things perhaps to.
00:22:31.578 --> 00:22:44.461
On the other hand, I love that like they're really passionate, they want to get things done but it's not yet, because I think they're also going to make quick decisions at the consequence of having to deal with it later.
00:22:44.461 --> 00:22:47.807
That includes people who are rushed to fire folks.
00:22:47.807 --> 00:22:51.557
That's a rush of people to hire folks because they get into panic mode.
00:22:52.157 --> 00:23:06.367
A lot of times I have leaders who just stall themselves out, meaning, you know let's just take the car example right, like they can't get into the right gear, like they're stalling the car out, they're driving a stick shift, it's not working.
00:23:06.367 --> 00:23:18.459
I mean, they are blocking their own progress and a lot of times what they need is someone who is not in the middle or the thick of it but understands enough to be powerful to get them to think differently.
00:23:18.459 --> 00:23:22.567
And you know, with leaders, you know who are seeking my counsel.
00:23:22.567 --> 00:23:25.544
You know, and coaching and consulting is different, right On the coaching side.
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I'm asking you questions and you know the answer.
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I'm just here to help it come out.
00:23:30.226 --> 00:23:35.497
On the consulting side, you're looking for my expertise and I'm going to tell you exactly what I think to say.
00:23:35.517 --> 00:23:55.606
I won't invite you to consider some of my thoughts, but you know, the idea here is you know, I like to do a mixture of that all the time, because I believe that leaders who and anyone who is willing to look at themselves have some self-awareness and someone who can kind of pull out what they're seeing and noticing, and oftentimes it's about speed, it's about pace.
00:23:55.606 --> 00:23:59.970
Um, you know, people are like huh, okay, like it resonates, they get it.
00:23:59.970 --> 00:24:05.751
Um, and one last thing I'll say about that is I usually have to define it for people like what do you mean?
00:24:05.751 --> 00:24:07.376
Susan might go slow to go fast.
00:24:07.376 --> 00:24:12.505
And, um, you, people who know me well, they laugh because I have some of these coin phrases.
00:24:12.625 --> 00:24:17.080
But you know, I think this is also the importance of knowing thyself.
00:24:17.080 --> 00:24:28.820
Surrounding yourself with a coach, for example, I can't, I can't say it enough right, that if you are an entrepreneur, it is lonely at the top, just like it can be in the people space, right, you know you're.
00:24:28.820 --> 00:24:35.094
You know, as I did as an HR exec, right, you need to have places and avenues where you can do some thinking.
00:24:35.094 --> 00:24:39.990
Some thinking that will also allow you to weigh different scenarios.
00:24:39.990 --> 00:24:46.415
I love scenario planning, like just being able to kind of think things out and test your own speeds, kind of like your golf swing.
00:24:46.415 --> 00:24:47.538
You know it's all about tempo.
00:24:47.538 --> 00:24:51.468
These are things that I think leaders can never underestimate.
00:24:52.175 --> 00:24:58.060
Yeah, susan, I love that distinction that you make between that coaching and consulting role of the people.
00:24:58.060 --> 00:24:59.165
Have the answers versus.
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I'm here to help guide you to the answers that I have from my own experience and my own knowledge.
00:25:03.623 --> 00:25:09.743
When I think about the work that you do with regards to leadership and I'm just I'm staring at the headline on your website, susan.
00:25:09.743 --> 00:25:12.067
It's such a powerful one, helping your people rise.
00:25:12.067 --> 00:25:22.487
Obviously, that is so core to everything that your business does, and it makes me ask you this question of the role of leadership, when we think about the distinction of coaching and consulting.
00:25:22.909 --> 00:25:25.717
There's so many different ways that leadership can manifest.
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There's so many different styles.
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There's so many different roles we can play.
