994: Unlocking success for NONPROFITS through the Google Ads Grant (and how FOR PROFITS can use those strategies!) w/ Todd Vigil

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Hey, what is up?

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Welcome to this episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

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As always, I'm your host, brian LoFermento, and in almost 1,000 episodes, we have never talked about what I think is one of the most generous marketing and resource opportunities out there concerning nonprofits and impact and moving the world forward in positive ways.

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And so today we are bringing on an incredible guest to talk about the Google Ad Grant program and, most importantly, not even just regarding digital ads, but the way that today's entrepreneur views impact and marketing and being of service and reaching more people, and doing all of it on limited resources.

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I think we're all in for a real treat in today's episode.

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So let me tell you about today's guest.

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His name is Todd Vigil.

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Todd is a results-driven nonprofit marketing leader known for his innovative data driven strategies.

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He founded ElyHub to help nonprofits utilize Google's ad grant program, which we're going to talk about a lot.

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This is a $10,000 a month marketing budget accessible to nonprofits.

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So if you're thinking to yourself, well, I'm not a nonprofit.

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How does this factor into what I'm doing and what I'm building?

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Well, I think that you're going to learn a lot from Todd's strategic mind the way that he makes things simple.

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Really, this is someone who thinks about marketing and impact in really unique and powerful ways.

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As chief marketing officer for the Phoenix Symphony, he drove significant transformation through digital marketing.

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With over a decade of experience, todd has led marketing for institutions like the Heard Museum.

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He also chairs the marketing council at ASU's Lodestar Center.

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He's a native of Arizona.

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Todd enjoys hiking, reading, podcasts and international travel.

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I'm very excited for all of us to learn from him today.

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So I'm not going to say anything else.

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Let's dive straight into my interview with Todd Fidgel.

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All right, todd, I'm so excited to have you here with us today.

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First things first.

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Welcome to the show.

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Thank you Great to be here.

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Thanks for having me.

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Heck.

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Yes, I think that the work that you do, not only is it incredible and it's important, but I think that it's so insightful, the way that you view the world through the lens of marketing and what's possible.

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But before we get to that stuff, take us beyond the bio.

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Who's Todd?

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How'd you start doing all these amazing things?

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Oh, great question.

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I'm Arizona native.

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I grew up here.

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I've tried to leave a couple of times, but I've always just stayed with great companies and opportunities here in Phoenix.

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I started my career at US Airways as a really fun job.

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Running their company store and their uniform programs Learned a lot.

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I spent about five years there before I stumbled into nonprofit.

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Thanks to a really good friend who helped me get my foot in the door, and just some other connections in the nonprofit space, I got the amazing job as the director of marketing at the Phoenix Symphony.

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I spent seven years there and have just been kind of inserting myself into a variety of aspects of the nonprofit space and throughout that whole time I felt there was this niche around small nonprofits and the Google Ad Grant and we launched in 2021, but this is my first year doing it full time, so I'm excited to be, here.

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Yeah, I love talking about this program.

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Yeah, me as well, because I think that it is such an untapped resource for nonprofits.

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And we're going to talk about the Google AdGrant today.

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We're going to talk about nonprofits and your feelings around that, but first things first, you are the one who's introducing our worldwide audience to the Google AdGrants program, so let's start there.

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What is it, todd?

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Give us the intricacies of it.

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Yeah, google has had this really generous program.

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Google for Nonprofits is the larger program but one of the sub-programs in that is the Google AdGram.

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It's been around since at least 2001 and offers most 501c3 nonprofits up to $10,000 a month in free advertising.

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The challenge is don't feel bad if you've never heard of the program.

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I would say 50% of the people I talk to in the nonprofit space don't even know it exists and the other 50% know it exists but it's a little challenging.

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It's an ad tech platform that takes some nuance and understanding.

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So they just don't have the time, the talent or the skillset in their organizations and a lot of them just don't have the budgets for a full service marketing agency and I'm a big fan of great marketing agencies.

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They just can't afford it.

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They can't afford the retainers of a marketing agency or a consistent consultant.

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So I created a product that I call the Netflix of Google grant management.

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We're going to do 80% of what they need, but if they really want to watch House of Dragons they're going to have to find HBO.

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But we focus on efficiency and our model across our over 50 clients now really works and it's a really simplified model at just a fraction of the cost.

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So it's a really powerful program.

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Every nonprofit should be using it and if they can afford to help, they should hire someone if not me, someone like me who knows the grant and can help them do it right.

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Yeah, I love that perspective, especially because there's so few times in the world of business that we can say everyone should be doing this.

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But Ewing and I can very confidently say on the air today every single nonprofit should be taking advantage of this.

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And, todd, I'm going to extrapolate here really early on in today's episode, because a lot of listeners tuning in might be thinking well, I don't have a nonprofit, so this doesn't really apply to me, but I think there's so much power in thinking like a nonprofit, because nonprofits have to be very disciplined about how they use their resources, and so, even beyond just talking about Google ads, for example, I want to tap into your mind with regards to the nonprofit business model.

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Actually, I want to correct myself there, because the CEO of a nonprofit that I've worked with historically once told me that nonprofit is not a business model.

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Actually, I want to correct myself there, because the CEO of a nonprofit that I've worked with historically once told me that nonprofit is not a business model, it is a tax approach, and so there's so much that we can learn from that world.

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Give us your perspective on nonprofits.

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You've been involved with real life ones like the Phoenix Symphony that brings so much joy and happiness and impact to the world, so there's huge opportunities there.

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What does the nonprofit world mean to you?

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Oh yeah, you know there's over 1.5 million nonprofits in the United States and you know, one of the true pleasures of starting this journey is so many of those nonprofits are just doing unique things that you would never think about.

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We cover everything from suicide prevention to the arts to a sports podcast in Texas and food shelters, dog shelters, a lot of youth, community youth and community serving organizations.

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So it's really great to see this impact in this.

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You know where?

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You know private enterprise and government leave these gaps in the world where it doesn't necessarily make sense from a financial standpoint to operate in this space.

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Nonprofits fill that void and they do that by typically two reasons.

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Some nonprofits have two main revenue streams.

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One is called earned revenue.

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So, for example, at the Phoenix Symphony we sold a lot of tickets it was over 50% of our income and that's sustainable to a degree.

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But orchestras are expensive and so in order to make that model work and this is for just about every orchestra in the country and the world it takes subsidies.

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In the us it relies on private philanthropy.

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So those non-profits for contributed revenue, which is the donation side, really have to go and cultivate and understand their audience, even if it's something as mass market as, let's say, a symphony where we're selling tickets to everything from beethoven to abba, the.

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You have to cultivate, you have to get to know your audience on a one-on one level, because that's where your potential donors are and that's what keeps the model alive.

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So it's a really interesting concept.

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Um, you know, sometimes I joke, the non-profit space is, you know, kind of like a perpetual startup.

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You know they're always in this kind of scrappy mode a bunch of young, eager, super talented, passionate folks come into an organization to do a lot of work and, um, you know, it can be rewarding personally, but sometimes it's financially a strain because nonprofits can struggle with cashflow and donations and you know they are at the whim of donors.

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And that whole landscape is changing.

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Now too, donor, behavior, especially since COVID, has really changed.

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We're seeing a lot fewer donations from fewer households donating.

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We're seeing a lot fewer donations from fewer households donating.

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We're seeing larger big gifts, the things like McKinsey, scott's of the world and Warren Buffett's challenge, but the smaller individual donors have been on a decline since COVID.

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So we're hoping that turns around.

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Yeah, and Todd, having you here is really fun to talk about these things, because you are a marketer at heart and so marketing, the very essence of it, talks about using your resources to gain even more resources, and it's obviously incredibly important in the landscape that you operate in.

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I'm curious to hear about your perspective on marketing within the nonprofit world, because it seems to me from the outside like you have all of the same obligations that we do of generating ROI, of having really strategic and intentional campaigns and calls to action and copy.

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Talk to us about that landscape of marketing within the nonprofit world.

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Yeah, the.

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I think not only just in marketing, but I think, I'm sorry, not only in nonprofit, but I think in general people default the term marketing to promotion and in particular, things like social media or TV or ad buys and things like that, which is certainly a part of it.

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But I always tell people when I speak or when I teach that there are four P's of marketing.

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It's many of you probably know, but product, price, place and promotion and I think in the nonprofit world and a small business world we forget about that.

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It is.

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It is all four of those things and they all have to be addressed, kind of constantly.

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Promotion, you know, things like social media, advertising, pr those are the sexy parts of marketing, so we'd like to do them.

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Oftentimes they're trackable with KPIs and results.

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But you really have to pay attention.

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If your product's really good, all the marketing in the world isn't going to save it.

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If your product's amazing, you may not need as much marketing the time.

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Nonprofits don't necessarily always do that.

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And then place same thing Are you in the right place, both digitally and physically, if you have a physical footprint?

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So I think that's one of the biggest things in the nonprofit sector is we get.

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We spend too much time thinking about the sexy stuff that we you know, or maybe even vanity for the lack of a better term, where we're just want to see our names in the newspaper or on the side of a bus.

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But I would often challenge those are not very effective uses of marketing.

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For most nonprofits I'd say that for a lot of our profits too.

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But yeah, I'm going to use that to segue, because when you talk about place and being in the right place and I love that you just so clearly call out the sexy places and I'm with you there that I love throwing shade at launching Facebook ads and all these video ad campaigns.

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It's not the right solution for a lot of businesses, but those are the ads that we see the most, so we tend to default to that when we have broad marketing based conversations.

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So, todd, I want to bring it back to basics Google ads.

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It's one of the longest standing self-serve ad platforms in the world.

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It still, to this day, remains one of the most efficient and productive and profitable.

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So I would also argue that a lot of our listeners and most entrepreneurs still have never tapped into that as an ad platform.

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So what is the Google ad platform?

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We've all seen it as consumers when we Google things, but what are the powers?

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What are some of those unique gifts that the Google ad platform presents to us as business owners?

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Well, I'll start broad.

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You know Google.

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The Google ad platforms have a lot of tools in their pocket.

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You know they've got a whole display advertising.

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They've got affiliate display advertising.

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Are they retargeting ads that follow you around on the internet?

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They have YouTube, really powerful.

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It's the second largest search engine in the world, only behind Google.

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So they know this market well and some other things.

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The Google grant is specifically on paid search, so these are the ads that you get.

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When you Google something and you see those sponsored ads at the top, google gives those away.

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Well, there's some parameters, but Google gives those away for free to nonprofits and lets nonprofits compete in the auction.

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That decides what that happens and, when managed properly, it can be very effective and competitive in a lot of spaces.

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I tell people Google and, in particular, the Google ad grant, are excellent at top of funnel and increasing marketing awareness.

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At my company, we can't guarantee how much money you're going to get in free ads.

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We can't guarantee how much money you're going to get in free ads.

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We can't guarantee how many people are going to donate, but what I can guarantee is that Google, when done properly, will increase your quality website traffic and I can't think of a nonprofit out there that doesn't want more of the right people on their website.

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And then, lastly, it's just about how do you execute that?

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Do we?

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Do we get the right ads in place?

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Are they managed properly, so you're not wasting money on impressions or clicks that just aren't effective for you?

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Yeah, todd, now you're getting into some of the fun ad stuff that I'm excited to talk metrics with you.

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But before we get there, I do want to talk about the fact that doing something with that traffic, sending it to places that is useful to us, is obviously important from a business perspective.

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You so succinctly.

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I love how clear you separated earned revenue for nonprofits versus the donor side of things.

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Where are you sending that traffic?

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What are successful campaigns set up to do?

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You talk about brand awareness being one consideration set and also you introduced us to the top of funnel.

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I feel like you have such a strategic mind that not every business owner might fully appreciate.

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Okay, here's the strategy, here's the intentionality that we're putting behind these things and this is what we're looking for from each campaign.

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Give us some of those real life insights into different types of campaigns and where you send that traffic and really beyond that, what you do with that traffic.

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Yeah, great question.

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And for the broader audience, who maybe is a small business owner or starting out, I think our model applies and I'd love to say it's a secret sauce or some proprietary formula, but it's not.

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It's just a simple strategy.

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We put it on our website so I'll share it here.

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But we know this works.

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We do work with a number of kind of friends and family small businesses my barber for being one, and we've worked with med, spas and even restaurants, so you know smaller, location-based businesses.

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This strategy does work and can be done affordably.

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So, just to simply put, we deploy a three campaign strategy.

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One of those is a dynamic campaign for our clients and that is a highly automated campaign format, relatively easy to set up in the ad platform, google Ads Manager, and it's highly automated.

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Google does a lot of the work for that.

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We just tend to oversee and maintain it.

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The second campaign we build for people is just a generic.

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We call it their commercial.

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It's a very generic ad but specific about their organization.

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But it kind of covers the basics of what do they do, who they are, where are they.

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And then one of the hardest parts for nonprofits is, as part of our onboarding, we make them rank at least three website conversions.

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What are the things you want people to do when they get on your website?

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And it varies from nonprofit to nonprofit, but the common ones are things like newsletter downloads, blog reads, donation, obviously, volunteers, some of them because of the marketplace right now careers they just want more quality applicants.

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Some of them because of the marketplace right now careers they just want more quality applicants.

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And so that third campaign is dedicated to their number one conversion.

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So a lot of times it's things like donations or learn more about us in there, and so that's kind of getting into the weeds of how we deploy our strategy, and it's a very simplified version.

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A full service agency is going to do a much more robust campaign structure.

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There's a lot of benefit to that, but we believe and we have the results to prove it that a simple strategy, well-executed, is going to give you a really good value for what you're spending.

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Yes, amen to that.

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Simplicity almost always wins.

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I love that.

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That's so deeply ingrained in the way that you operate.

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Todd Along those lines.

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A lot of people probably think that in the world of advertising I know when I hear people talk about Facebook ads they believe it's just set it and forget it.

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What's your attitude towards that?

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How much of it is set it and forget it versus some tweaks and optimizations along the way?

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Yeah, no-transcript and we focus on conversions.

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If you can't track some sort of meaningful conversion for your organization online, you're just throwing money.

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I always say you've got the sign spinner on the side of the corner or you've got a Google ad.

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You can't take credit for all the cars that drive by the side spinner, which Google will do.

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You know, as impressions that's technically the impressions of an ad campaign.

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But with clicks you actually know people.

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They engage with your content.

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They likely visited your website and then you can do the backend analytics of Google Analytics to see okay, is your time on site good?

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Are people engaging with the content?

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What content are they engaging with?

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So it really takes it to that next level of just painting the picture of is this campaign working?

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But to me it all goes back to conversions and just following data.

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Are you doing a good job with things like click-through rate and cost per click where you can gauge your success?

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Yeah, todd, hearing you talk about these things.

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It perfectly illustrates the point that you and I made early on in our conversation today, which is these are just the marketing fundamentals and the principles.

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We can't escape them, whether we're talking the for-profit world, the non-profit world, and I think it's powerful insights for all of us, not only in the world where we're all looking for that winning strategy, but so much how you bring it back to that simplicity.

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So, having a conversation with you about Google ad campaigns, for example, we can't ignore one of the most important parts of the campaign, which is, of course, keywords.

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Todd, I once upon a time owned an SEO agency and when I talked to business owners, they would say, oh yeah, I already rank on Google.

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And then I say for what keyword?

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And they say my business name.

00:18:47.998 --> 00:18:57.327
And obviously, ranking for your business name is one thing, but finding those strategic keywords that people are searching for to find you at the right time in the right place is important.

00:18:57.327 --> 00:19:05.424
Introduce us to keyword strategy, and what are the things that you think about to identify those good keywords that will actually move businesses forward?

00:19:05.464 --> 00:19:09.963
identify those good keywords that will actually move businesses forward.

00:19:09.963 --> 00:19:17.969
Yeah, so, if you think of Google ads, as you know a, you know the.

00:19:17.969 --> 00:19:23.826
The keywords are the ingredients you feed to to Google and you're giving it parameters around things like headlines and descriptions.

00:19:23.826 --> 00:19:35.113
But you're giving it an idea of keywords and those are just effectively groupings of words that are, when done properly, create ad groups which are similarly themed.

00:19:35.113 --> 00:19:47.011
So, for example, keywords around donation you know donations near me, charitable donations, you know tax deductible donations those kinds of things would be in one particular ad group and those are the ingredients.

00:19:47.011 --> 00:19:52.256
They don't necessarily do anything other than give Google a guide to where to start.

00:19:52.256 --> 00:19:54.551
Google's going to recommend them once it gets going.

00:19:55.075 --> 00:19:58.469
Google's hopefully indexing your site and knows what people are looking at already.

00:19:58.469 --> 00:20:09.317
But I do want to also delineate there's keywords in their search terms and we always tell our nonprofits we have them focus on search terms from their end.

00:20:09.317 --> 00:20:19.310
We want them to see what people are actually typing in and how they're getting to the page, because it's helpful If you've got a search term in there that may or may not include a keyword.

00:20:19.310 --> 00:20:23.653
That's a great concept, for do you need to add an FAQ to an FAQs page.

00:20:23.653 --> 00:20:26.054
Do you need to write a blog about that particular topic?

00:20:27.085 --> 00:20:28.892
So there's a lot of powerful data that you get from this.

00:20:28.892 --> 00:20:37.153
You know, and I tell all of my potential clients or current clients google is amazing at intent.

00:20:37.153 --> 00:20:44.349
It knows what you want and it's really good at serving ads relevant, because that's how they've monetized more or less since day one.

00:20:44.349 --> 00:20:52.511
The last thing I'll say is, if you are in this space or delving down this space AI is great for this.

00:20:52.511 --> 00:21:15.346
If you have the paid version of ChatGPT, you can literally write a prompt that says something along the lines of you are a senior marketing strategist for wwwyourorganizationcom, recommend 50 keywords and organize them by ad groups, and it will spit out an option, a list for you just to look at and work on very quickly.

00:21:15.346 --> 00:21:20.215
So they're important, but you've got to stay on top of them too.

00:21:20.817 --> 00:21:29.693
Yeah, and speaking of staying on top of them, you have dropped so effortlessly a bunch of different KPIs throughout our conversation today, whether it's click-through rates or conversion rates.

00:21:29.693 --> 00:21:44.588
Talk to us about some of those analytics because, as someone who my first ever business was a blog, which Google Analytics gave me all the things session time, number of pages per visit, all of those metrics that I was looking at as a content-based business.

00:21:44.588 --> 00:21:52.769
But, Todd, what are the actionable metrics that business owners should be paying attention to and taking action from when it comes to paid advertising?

00:21:55.173 --> 00:22:07.315
Yeah, you know, from a digital perspective Facebook, google, any of the digital, even things like connected TV now the basics are still really good, really good KPIs to follow.

00:22:07.315 --> 00:22:14.930
So, for us, we tell our nonprofits to keep an eye on their click-through rate and their cost per click and we tell them what our range is.

00:22:14.930 --> 00:22:19.135
We have a healthy range that we like to be in and we tell them when you get your monthly report.

00:22:19.135 --> 00:22:22.971
Those are the two things you need to check to see if I'm doing my job and my team's doing their job.

00:22:22.971 --> 00:22:36.765
And if they're in that range, you should have confidence that we're getting the right people to your website if they start to drop or go down, taking that one step further and this is what we get paid for and Google does help with automation.

00:22:36.884 --> 00:22:45.766
If you're going to tackle this yourself, but Google will tell you individually what are those keywords, what are those search terms that are doing really well and that are doing poorly.

00:22:45.766 --> 00:22:54.355
And again, there's a lot of automation built into the platform so you can suspend things like low quality keywords, especially if you're a paid account.

00:22:54.355 --> 00:22:59.501
If you're advertising your pizza restaurant you don't want, you know, let's say, I'm here in Phoenix, arizona.

00:22:59.501 --> 00:23:10.089
I probably don't want to advertise my you know pickup pizza restaurant in, let's just say, tucson or even Scottsdale I don't know if people are driving 15 miles to come pick up pizza.

00:23:10.089 --> 00:23:16.153
So, looking at those to see where the quality is, you can turn them off and on, which is really helpful.

00:23:17.738 --> 00:23:22.852
Other than that, the last thing I'll say on that is in Google Analytics.

00:23:22.852 --> 00:23:28.665
If you're wondering what paid search is or how to track it is in Google Analytics.

00:23:28.665 --> 00:23:41.974
Google ads paid or the grant come through as paid search so you can always tell what percentage of your website traffic is coming from your efforts, and that's a really powerful tool when we have clients who may be questioning you know, is it working?

00:23:41.974 --> 00:23:43.077
How are you helping?

00:23:43.077 --> 00:23:47.777
We can very quickly show them real results of what the ads are generating.

00:23:47.777 --> 00:23:49.950
Again, that's both for paid or for Google Grant.

00:23:50.751 --> 00:23:56.896
Yeah, Todd, I'm excited to ask you this next question because I've never asked a Google Ads Grant specialist like yourself this question.

00:23:56.896 --> 00:24:09.686
But I've heard it from the flip side, from nonprofit owners, where they tell me you know, this all sounds easy and amazing in theory of Google's going to give us $10,000 a month to spend in free advertising.

00:24:09.686 --> 00:24:15.807
And then when I say that's amazing, $120,000 a year goes a long way in making an impact for your business.

00:24:15.807 --> 00:24:22.974
But then, Todd, inevitably I always hear from them a few months later of we can't figure out how to spend all of this money because it is so much.

00:24:22.974 --> 00:24:24.425
What's your take on that?

00:24:24.425 --> 00:24:32.709
Because I do hear so many users of this grant program who struggle to put campaigns together and it's why they need people like you and I'm so excited to introduce you to them.

00:24:32.709 --> 00:24:35.165
Moving forward, it's so great to have you here in the community.

00:24:35.165 --> 00:24:39.737
What's your answer as to why it's so hard for people to spend these funds?

00:24:42.005 --> 00:24:42.545
Yeah, two things.

00:24:42.545 --> 00:24:43.826
Let me just manage expectations.

00:24:43.826 --> 00:24:46.588
The $10,000 is an up to so.

00:24:46.588 --> 00:24:52.292
Not all nonprofits get the full benefit of what's on the table, but that's okay.

00:24:52.292 --> 00:25:02.402
We've taken over several clients who are getting hosed by a consultant or a firm who either doesn't know what they're doing or maybe is taking a percentage and is misaligned in the results.

00:25:02.402 --> 00:25:09.813
We've had clients where they're getting the $10,000, but almost all their traffic is coming from outside of the United States.

00:25:09.813 --> 00:25:15.154
One in particular was just a Phoenix-based nonprofit and they were getting almost all their traffic from out of Arizona, let alone Phoenix.

00:25:17.749 --> 00:25:20.213
So the $10,000 isn't our biggest priority.

00:25:20.213 --> 00:25:21.256
It is about quality.

00:25:21.256 --> 00:25:25.592
We would want to get you the right level of ads to your site.

00:25:25.592 --> 00:25:33.077
That said, based on geographic reach, most of our national clients get pretty close to the $10,000 every month.

00:25:33.077 --> 00:25:42.107
Statewide organizations typically get several thousand dollars a month and then smaller localized nonprofits typically see kind of a $1,000 to $3,000.

00:25:42.107 --> 00:25:43.990
But there's exceptions both ways.

00:25:45.834 --> 00:25:50.240
And then you know from there the you know again.

00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:57.508
It's really about quality, focusing on having ad quality in there, the right keywords, the right search terms.

00:25:57.508 --> 00:26:03.167
There are tips and tricks around the Google, you know, making sure that you're using the right bid strategy.

00:26:03.167 --> 00:26:11.133
We find max conversion is typically the best default, but again, you have to have conversion set up with the Google Tag Manager on your website.

00:26:11.133 --> 00:26:19.435
We also see a lot of time and energy focused on those ad groups re-theming ad groups.

00:26:20.488 --> 00:26:33.792
If you have a really good website with a lot of content and a lot of quality, it's a good speed, it's easy to use and you have a lot of content, maybe a really robust, long-standing blog, a dynamic campaign is incredibly powerful.

00:26:33.792 --> 00:26:38.349
We have some clients who that's their largest campaign and it's highly automated.

00:26:38.349 --> 00:26:43.315
You could probably figure out how to set that up with a couple of YouTube videos and you know in there.

00:26:43.315 --> 00:26:45.186
So you know.

00:26:45.186 --> 00:26:47.173
I think those are the big things that you want to focus on.

00:26:47.173 --> 00:26:48.646
Is is just quality.

00:26:48.646 --> 00:26:49.871
We want to get the right ads.

00:26:49.871 --> 00:27:06.612
I always tell a client I would rather get you $2,000 of the right people than $5,000 of fluff traffic Cause I could fake that all day long if I wanted to, and we were really pride ourselves on focusing on quality and I would encourage anyone who's doing any digital advertising follow those metrics.

00:27:06.612 --> 00:27:08.035
Focus on quality what's working.

00:27:08.035 --> 00:27:08.656
Do more of that.

00:27:08.656 --> 00:27:09.538
What's not stop.

00:27:10.625 --> 00:27:14.075
Yeah, really important takeaway, as you said, for all of us business owners.

00:27:14.115 --> 00:27:18.736
And I'm going to throw a little bit more shade, piling onto what you said earlier about those vanity metrics.

00:27:18.796 --> 00:27:26.116
It's so tempting to chase the bigger numbers, but, you're right, those bigger numbers don't always trickle down to the parts of our business that absolutely matter.

00:27:26.196 --> 00:27:31.586
So when I think about advertising, todd, I always think about how much of an iterative process it is.

00:27:31.586 --> 00:27:46.422
It's so hard to get a campaign right completely out of the gates, and that's why I was so glad to see in all of my research of you ahead of our session here today, that you and I share a similar love for James Clear, a very brilliant business mind and a very brilliant writer.

00:27:46.422 --> 00:27:52.969
And I particularly love and I see it's something that you also subscribe to is the fact that his concept of marginal gains.

00:27:52.969 --> 00:27:58.689
It really guides us in everything we do, not only in business, certainly not only in advertising, but really in life.

00:27:58.689 --> 00:28:06.717
I'd love to hear your perspective on it, because it hits us all differently, and you're one of us you're a fellow entrepreneur, not just a specialist when it comes to Google Ads.

00:28:06.717 --> 00:28:14.771
Talk to us about how James Clear's marginal gains have factored into your mindset and the way that you approach all the things we face in business.

00:28:17.396 --> 00:28:19.499
Oh good, you give me an opportunity to plug my new talk.

00:28:19.499 --> 00:28:21.921
But yeah, you know marginal gains.

00:28:21.921 --> 00:28:35.152
If, for those of you who aren't familiar with it, it's the first chapter of Atomic Habits, there's also a Harvard Business Review article on Sir Dave Brailsford, who was the British cycling coach, and he just, in a great case study, shows the power of marginal gains.

00:28:35.152 --> 00:28:37.517
You know, we've experienced this in.

00:28:37.517 --> 00:28:43.808
You know, in marketing and business, the last you know, several times and we just we don't think about it as much.

00:28:43.808 --> 00:28:48.946
You know even Moneyball, the book and the movie that was really about marginal gains, finding the simple wins.

00:28:50.434 --> 00:28:54.344
I'll, to highlight this, I'll go back to my career at the Phoenix Symphony.

00:28:54.344 --> 00:28:58.346
I was there seven years and started off very green.

00:28:58.346 --> 00:28:59.460
I didn't know what I was doing.

00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:02.084
I was learning very, very quickly on the job.

00:29:02.084 --> 00:29:10.559
But by year three or four, you know, we started to get the data, we started to find wins and it was a very use the right word very iterative process.

00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:14.739
It was just following the data, a lot of A-B testing.

00:29:14.739 --> 00:29:16.704
You know what worked and we just did more of it.

00:29:16.704 --> 00:29:38.708
And you know, I wish I could say that when I was hired there, seven years before I left, that I went in with this amazing strategy that we were going to be the first, you know, and major arts organization in the United States, let alone North America, to do 100% digital advertising, to not be in the newspaper, to not be on a billboard.

00:29:38.708 --> 00:29:43.490
All those vanity plays in my mind was that.

00:29:43.490 --> 00:29:51.739
And we became the first and we were seeing huge, multi double digit increases for four years, million dollar increases for three of those.

00:29:51.739 --> 00:29:52.922
So it was all an iterative process.

00:29:52.961 --> 00:29:54.266
I didn't start out with this strategy.

00:29:54.266 --> 00:29:57.930
I developed it over seven years and it was follow the data.

00:29:57.930 --> 00:30:00.853
Make a lot of mistakes, but don't keep doing them if they're not working.

00:30:00.853 --> 00:30:00.986
And it was a follow the data makes.

00:30:00.986 --> 00:30:01.948
Make a lot of mistakes, but don't keep doing them if they're not working.

00:30:01.948 --> 00:30:09.542
And when I had clear data that I could spend a dollar on Facebook and turn it into eight in some cases, why would you stop?

00:30:09.542 --> 00:30:13.458
You know, and, budgets aside, you just kind of have to discard your budget.

00:30:13.498 --> 00:30:29.982
At that point we and we were thankfully my boss was in a place where he would let me I'd go in every couple months and be like I think we need to spend another $100,000 in marketing and here's where and here's what I think it will do and if the math made sense and we would do it, and if I was right we'd keep doing it, if I was wrong we'd stop and pivot.

00:30:30.585 --> 00:30:32.109
So it really is iterative.

00:30:32.109 --> 00:30:45.546
Those small wins are so powerful, especially in a nonprofit where big wins they're hard and they are hard and I always say, mathematically, 10, 1% improvements is better than one 10% improvement.

00:30:45.546 --> 00:30:55.454
Ironically, by 10% you get one extra iteration out of that, just simply from the compounding and it's really simple math but it's in a really simple strategy.

00:30:55.454 --> 00:31:00.340
But it's hard to let go of the big again sexy stuff and go back to great.

00:31:00.340 --> 00:31:04.144
I'm just gonna follow try to get an extra 10% more conversions this month.

00:31:04.144 --> 00:31:10.059
It's gonna make a small difference on your website traffic but it may make a big difference in what you're trying to get people to do.

00:31:11.236 --> 00:31:40.931
Yeah, todd, I knew that time would fly by in today's episode because you and I could geek out about all these things marketing, advertising, business growth, marginal gains but I want to squeeze two more questions in while we have you here, because I always love also talking entrepreneur to entrepreneur and, with that in mind, something that I so respect and really deeply appreciate about you, lee Hub, and the way that you serve so many nonprofits around this country, making a huge positive difference in the world, is how accessible your agency is to them.

00:31:40.931 --> 00:31:44.041
Todd, you are not charging exorbitant fees.

00:31:44.041 --> 00:31:46.708
You are very understanding of a simplicity.

00:31:46.708 --> 00:31:55.566
A simplistic approach to things allows you to pass that on to the clients that you serve, and that makes your agency's impact even more.

00:31:55.566 --> 00:31:57.230
You talk about compounding effects.

00:31:57.230 --> 00:32:01.124
It really amplifies all of those things that you can do and all the people you can serve.

00:32:01.575 --> 00:32:09.228
Talk to us about that intentional pricing strategy, because if people are listening to this thinking, todd, I wish I could afford a Google ad specialist like you.

00:32:09.228 --> 00:32:23.961
Your pricing starts at and obviously it can change, but I'm just reading from your website starts at $125 a month and scales up from there, or $125 a month and scales up from there.

00:32:23.961 --> 00:32:34.548
So, todd, talk to us about the intentionality and the strategy behind being sort of a volume business, of serving so many more clients, versus the high ticket that maybe charges my mishap of $125,000 instead of just $125 a month.

00:32:35.675 --> 00:32:38.665
Well, if I could charge $125,000, I'd be doing this on my yacht.

00:32:38.665 --> 00:32:42.134
Well, if I could charge $125,000, I'd be doing this on my yacht.

00:32:42.134 --> 00:32:43.798
But yeah, we believe in transparency.

00:32:43.798 --> 00:32:46.405
I spent over 12 years in the nonprofit space.

00:32:46.405 --> 00:33:00.068
I was in the chair of marketing directors and chief marketing officers at several organizations and I work with ASU Lodestar, which is a wonderful resource for nonprofits their nonprofit center.

00:33:02.035 --> 00:33:09.579
I just always knew that there was this niche out there and I built the pricing, which typically is around our starting rate is typically around $149.

00:33:09.579 --> 00:33:21.002
We do have kind of a hyper local at that $125, but we charge $149 for a local nonprofit and we basically define that as kind of the size of a county, a single US county, maybe a second, depending on where they're at.

00:33:21.002 --> 00:33:22.900
We charge a little bit more.

00:33:22.900 --> 00:33:32.650
We charge $249 for statewide, which is an entire state or kind of a metro area like New York City, where you've got multi-states but it's really a relatively compact area.

00:33:32.650 --> 00:33:34.519
And then we have nationwide pricing.

00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:45.559
You know, for our national nonprofits, which we have several, we charge $399 for them, yeah, $3.99 for them, and they typically get the higher amount.

00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:46.482
So we want to price it accordingly.

00:33:46.482 --> 00:33:48.416
But one, we believed in transparency.

00:33:48.416 --> 00:33:50.626
Two we do have.

00:33:50.646 --> 00:33:54.660
There's a lot of competition out there in this space and there's a lot of really good people that work the money.

00:33:54.660 --> 00:34:12.811
But for a lot of nonprofits who just need to get as much out of the grant as possible, I wanted to price it as low as I could and basically we came up with our pricing and kind of settled on it with, if nothing else, the Google grant is really good at just getting the people who are already looking for you to your website.

00:34:12.811 --> 00:34:16.704
So, for example, big Brothers and Big Sisters we've got a couple of those chapters.

00:34:16.704 --> 00:34:24.757
People get that name wrong all the time Big Brothers, big sisters, big sisters, big sisters, big sisters, big brothers all sorts of iterations that you would never guess.

00:34:24.757 --> 00:34:27.367
We price it at that point.

00:34:27.367 --> 00:34:35.438
So, if nothing else, those people who are looking for you can find you really quickly, and that's more of a customer service thing and anything above that.

00:34:35.438 --> 00:34:38.181
So when we get them donations and we do we get them a lot of website.

00:34:38.181 --> 00:34:42.887
We get them new mentors and new kids that need mentors.

00:34:42.887 --> 00:34:45.550
That's all bonus.

00:34:45.550 --> 00:34:53.762
We want it priced as low as possible so that nonprofits are just getting value out of it more or less from day one, and then all the upside is on the nonprofit.

00:34:53.762 --> 00:34:54.820
I'm not going to charge more.

00:34:54.820 --> 00:34:56.599
Our pricing is very transparent.

00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:57.503
It's on our website.

00:34:57.503 --> 00:34:58.960
We limit any caps.

00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:02.746
We haven't even done any yet, but if we ever did, they're limited in the contract.

00:35:03.974 --> 00:35:07.300
You know, I believe in making the nonprofit.

00:35:07.300 --> 00:35:12.389
We designed our system to be as low cost and as completely off the plate of the nonprofit as possible.

00:35:12.389 --> 00:35:28.206
Um, we want it to be set it and forget it so they can spend their time on mission and cultivating those leads that we get them on their website through newsletter, uh enrollments or low level donations, um, or first donations, uh, things like that.

00:35:28.206 --> 00:35:30.141
So thanks for bringing that up.

00:35:30.141 --> 00:35:34.405
But, yeah, we think it's important, um, you know, and we want to be the right agency for the right person.

00:35:34.405 --> 00:35:43.264
Um, I was privileged at all my previous jobs I was able to spend a thousand dollars a month on a full service amazing agency out of New York and I would highly recommend them.

00:35:43.264 --> 00:35:48.010
I do recommend them, but a lot of nonprofits can't afford that, and so that's where we try to fill the gap.

00:35:53.094 --> 00:35:58.269
Yeah, I really appreciate the fact that you do that out of service and, of course, the level of transparency that is all too rare to find in business.

00:35:58.269 --> 00:36:02.300
So huge kudos to you, todd, and the way that your values show up in the way that your business serves other people.

00:36:02.300 --> 00:36:05.076
And then the final question that I always ask in these episodes.

00:36:05.076 --> 00:36:17.367
It's fun for me because you can take it in any direction that you want, and that is your one piece of advice, knowing that we're being listened to by thousands of entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs all over the world at all different stages of their business journey.

00:36:28.375 --> 00:36:30.742
What's that one thing that you want to impart on them and leave them with in today's episode?

00:36:30.742 --> 00:36:31.344
Oh, such a good question.

00:36:31.344 --> 00:36:41.186
You know, to me, I think the thing that has brought me the most success in my career is accountability, and I see it across the board, through extremely accountable folks to not extremely accountable folks, but it really comes down to one.

00:36:41.186 --> 00:36:42.568
You've got to be accountable to yourself.

00:36:42.568 --> 00:36:45.563
Are you honest with yourself?

00:36:45.563 --> 00:36:46.760
What works and what doesn't?

00:36:47.755 --> 00:36:53.304
I've been on this journey now for almost three years and I started relatively late on the entrepreneur journey.

00:36:53.304 --> 00:37:06.478
But I own up to my mistakes and we try to quickly pivot and not make them more, and certainly to clients, we're growing, we're and not make them more, and certainly to clients we're growing, we're new.

00:37:06.478 --> 00:37:13.668
We drop the ball from time to time and I have to be accountable to them and if my team makes a mistake, I'm the one who has to fall on that sword and I do it readily and being transparent, and it's really served us well.

00:37:13.668 --> 00:37:20.003
We have a 92% client retention rate and almost all of our clients that have left is because they were ready for something bigger.

00:37:20.003 --> 00:37:26.123
They're going on to a full service agency or they found some more money or they could get a better service that puts more things together.

00:37:26.123 --> 00:37:29.920
So we're really pleased by that number and I think it served me well.

00:37:30.601 --> 00:37:35.077
Yeah, todd, honestly I can't sing your praises enough here on the air.

00:37:35.077 --> 00:37:45.385
I'm really excited to put my money where my mouth is and send so many nonprofits that are in our ecosystem your way, because I'm so clear, I knew it before we even got on the air here together today.

00:37:45.385 --> 00:37:50.452
But your integrity, your values, show up so much, not only in what you do but how you do it.

00:37:50.452 --> 00:37:53.159
So huge kudos to you along those lines, todd.

00:37:53.159 --> 00:38:04.617
For people who are looking to go deeper into the wonderful world of the Google ad grant and all the services that your agency offers, drop those links on us.

00:38:04.697 --> 00:38:05.657
Where should listeners go from here?

00:38:05.657 --> 00:38:10.764
Yeah, great, easiest thing if you have not applied for Google for Nonprofits, just go to Google for Nonprofits.

00:38:10.764 --> 00:38:13.628
Google, google for Nonprofits.

00:38:13.628 --> 00:38:15.630
The application is really simple.

00:38:15.630 --> 00:38:19.561
I promise it's the easiest grant you'll ever apply for Once you get approved.

00:38:19.561 --> 00:38:21.967
From that, you do have to activate your products.

00:38:21.967 --> 00:38:29.320
You also get free Google Workspace and some YouTube benefits, but make sure you activate each of those products if you're gonna use them.

00:38:30.135 --> 00:38:31.481
The second one's the Google Ad Grant.

00:38:31.481 --> 00:38:39.090
If you already have the Google Ad Grant, you can log into your account and deploy that three campaign strategy.

00:38:39.090 --> 00:38:49.985
If nothing else, build a dynamic campaign and a responsive campaign that kind of covers what you do in general, and then I would build a separate campaign on what's the number one thing you want people to do.

00:38:49.985 --> 00:38:57.427
And then, lastly, I'll just say there's a lot of resources around this.

00:38:57.427 --> 00:38:58.376
There's a lot of resources around this.

00:38:58.376 --> 00:39:04.266
So if you are going to try to do it yourself, there's some great Udemy courses for oftentimes under $20 that you can do.

00:39:04.266 --> 00:39:08.902
If you're just trying to troubleshoot a particular problem, obviously YouTube, like we all do.

00:39:08.902 --> 00:39:15.507
And then I had one final thought, and I might have just forgotten it.

00:39:16.896 --> 00:39:18.802
Todd, you've got to plug your link for us too.

00:39:19.965 --> 00:39:21.880
Oh sure, I'll do that right now.

00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:22.563
Thank you for the segue.

00:39:22.563 --> 00:39:30.943
If you get stuck at any point on the on the journey, you know, because it can be quirky Don't hesitate to reach out to me or my team.

00:39:30.943 --> 00:39:34.846
We are at wwweelyhubcom.

00:39:34.846 --> 00:39:37.063
That's E-L-E-E-H-U-B.

00:39:37.063 --> 00:39:48.840
The word Ely comes from the word illimassanary, which means charitable or philanthropic, so we just borrowed that root word to create our company and all our information's on there, the strategies on there.

00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:57.248
But yeah, if you get stuck and you get denied the Google grant or you can't get into it, we know most of the tricks to get you up and running at no obligation.

00:39:57.248 --> 00:39:58.739
We'd be happy to help you out.

00:39:58.739 --> 00:40:04.902
So my email todd at elyhubcom, and I'm pretty active on LinkedIn as well.

00:40:05.684 --> 00:40:07.768
Yes, listeners, you already know the drill.

00:40:07.768 --> 00:40:11.512
We're making it as easy as possible for you to find Todd and his business online.

00:40:11.512 --> 00:40:14.039
His business website is at elyhubcom.

00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:15.342
You'll find that link down below.

00:40:15.342 --> 00:40:18.960
No matter where it is that you're tuning into today's episodes, you can click right on through.

00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:21.003
We're also linking to his personal LinkedIn.

00:40:21.003 --> 00:40:22.967
You see how generous and transparent he is.

00:40:22.967 --> 00:40:28.217
This is probably the first guest ever that when I asked for his links, todd just wants to continue being of service to you.

00:40:28.217 --> 00:40:35.460
So, todd, honestly, it's such a reflection of the type of person that you are, the type of entrepreneur that you are, and how much you're in service to others.

00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:40.025
So, on behalf of myself and all of our listeners worldwide, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

00:40:40.025 --> 00:40:42.168
Well, I really appreciate it.

00:40:42.188 --> 00:40:42.989
It's been a great opportunity.

00:40:42.989 --> 00:40:44.396
Thanks, Brian.

00:40:45.018 --> 00:40:50.528
Hey, it's Brian here, and thanks for tuning in to yet another episode of the Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast.

00:40:50.528 --> 00:40:55.978
If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there.

00:40:55.978 --> 00:41:03.780
Check out the show's website and all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at thewantrepreneurshowcom, and I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests.

00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:12.577
There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you, and it's because our guests step up to the plate.

00:41:12.617 --> 00:41:14.621
These are not sponsored episodes.

00:41:14.621 --> 00:41:16.226
These are not infomercials.

00:41:16.226 --> 00:41:19.702
Our guests help us cover the costs of our productions.

00:41:19.702 --> 00:41:30.664
They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, that they contribute to help us make these productions possible.

00:41:30.664 --> 00:41:39.163
So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general, and I just want to invite you check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there.

00:41:39.163 --> 00:41:40.487
We also have live chat.

00:41:40.487 --> 00:41:46.507
If you want to interact directly with me, go to the wantrepreneurshowcom, initiate a live chat.

00:41:46.507 --> 00:41:55.956
It's for real me, and I'm excited because I'll see you, as always every monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and sunday here on the wantrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast.